The Ducat Nerf [LOCK THREAD?]

[Darknecron]

WHY MY ORIGINAL POST IS NOT A VALID ARGUMENT:

On 7/29/2016 at 10:55 AM, [DE]Drew said:

There are no changes yet to Baro's prices because Ducat savings haven't changed significantly since before Baro's last visit. We made a change to Prime Part pricing earlier this week, and we need to see the effect of that first. If the number of Ducats in the economy hasn't really changed, it doesn't make sense to change the Ducat prices yet. We're continuing to monitor and will make adjustments as needed moving forward. 

I've added this thread to the original PSA and updated the OP. 

In other words, DE plans to reduce Baro's Ducat prices. Thanks, TrueHawkEye, for informing me!

 

MY ORIGINAL POST:

Players must now choose between selling platinum-valuable (rare) items for a significant amount of Ducats (100) or trading them to other players for platinum.  Before this patch, there were many 30 / 50 Ducat common items  that could be farmed VERY easily (ex: Nyx Prime BP [50], Saryn Prime Systems BP [50], Vasto Prime Receiver [30], Odonata Prime parts [30], etc).  Alternatively, players could obtain these items for as little as 2 or 3 platinum each (2p for common 30-Ducat items, 3p for common 50-Ducat items; 15 Ducats per plat, and  ~17 Ducats per plat respectively).  After the patch, all of these common, easily farmable Ducat sources have been reduced to 1/2 [30 to 15] to <1/3 [50 to 15] of their previous value, reducing the best possible Ducat-to-plat ratios to <8.  Obtaining the same amount of Ducats will now take at least twice (closer to three times) the previous grind time / at least twice the previous platinum.

So there you have it; players must choose platinum or Ducats when they used to be able to have both.  This will effectively restrict Baro's deals to those who can afford to  spend much more time on Ducat grinding or not have that platinum... AKA mostly high-MR players and those who pour money into the game.  In turn, this will drastically drive up the platinum value of Baro's items, even further restricting access to these items for low-to-mid (and even high) MR "true F2P" players.

Thanks DE, this certainly make the game more fun (:V); a game I would most certainly continue to recommend to my friends.  Just kidding, I started advising my friends against picking up Warframe as of Specters of the Rail.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Darknecron

[Hemmo67]

well the say i see this i only take ducats after i see what baro has to avoid getting arsed by some skins i cannot trade for plat to even out the plat i lost from turning primes to ducats

soo technicly if u think about it.. nothing changed

[Darknecron]

6 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

well the say i see this i only take ducats after i see what baro has to avoid getting arsed by some skins i cannot trade for plat to even out the plat i lost from turning primes to ducats

soo technicly if u think about it.. nothing changed

I'm sorry, but this is damn near illegible...

If I am reading this correctly...my response would  be to tell you that Baro comes regularly, so any spare Ducats you end up with will be used in the futture.  In other words, it's not a waste to "lose plat" now when you will have to do the same in the future.  And I really don't see how "nothing has changed;"  My OP very clearly points out exactly what has changed.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Darknecron

[Hemmo67]

3 minutes ago, Darknecron said:

I'm sorry, but this is damn near illegible...

If I am reading this correctly...my response would be to tell you that Baro comes regularly, so any spare Ducats you end up with will be used in the futture.

well i would be on minus side for 2 weeks if i could not trade his items for plats and i doubt anyone wants to be on minus side after the end of day

[taiiat]

it didn't really make sense that some parts were randomly considered Void Shekel valuable yet were extremely Common.

the Uncommon parts in these Pools make for nice Shekel gains with reasonable acquisition rates.

[TrueHawkEye]

They did not change the ducats prices since we all had stock piles of them left over from the old system. Say by the end of august the new prices might come in to play if people spend their ducats.

[Sintag]

Ok, here's my part of all this.

 

Trade in your stuff for Ducats after seeing Baro's inventory.  This way, if he's got nothing you want, you can sell for Plat.  Easy.

This being said, if you're aiming to gain Ducats en masse, refine relics regularly, running Radiant relics alongside a group of four who share these relics.  From what I heard you'll always get the rare if you do.

[Darknecron]

23 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

well i would be on minus side for 2 weeks if i could not trade his items for plats and i doubt anyone wants to be on minus side after the end of day

What I'm saying is that to get what you want from Baro, you now have to choose between:

1. Dedicate two to three times the amount of time to Ducat farming
2. "be on minus side after the end of day," because you traded valuable items for Ducats

 

20 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it didn't really make sense that some parts were randomly considered Void Shekel valuable yet were extremely Common.

the Uncommon parts in these Pools make for nice Shekel gains with reasonable acquisition rates.

That's funny... it's been this way for... how many years?  Why the sudden need / desire to change it? (because it further encourages players to spend more $$$ on plat, just like Specters of the Rail changes did)

 

19 minutes ago, TrueHawkEye said:

They did not change the ducats prices since we all had stock piles of them left over from the old system. Say by the end of august the new prices might come in to play if people spend their ducats.

Your second sentence shows the fallacy in your first.  That, and you are running on the assumption that all players have stockpiles of Ducats.

 

11 minutes ago, Sintag said:

Ok, here's my part of all this.

 

Trade in your stuff for Ducats after seeing Baro's inventory.  This way, if he's got nothing you want, you can sell for Plat.  Easy.

This being said, if you're aiming to gain Ducats en masse, refine relics regularly, running Radiant relics alongside a group of four who share these relics.  From what I heard you'll always get the rare if you do.

If you want to farm for Ducats in a way that minimizes your platinum losses, the best way to do so (if you have time the extra time now required for this) is farm common items.  If you are doing this, it is absolutely irrelevant as to when you sell your farmed commons for Ducats since they are worth so little plat .  Again, this patch forces you to either (actually, a bit of both) spend more time farming or lose more platinum to get what you want from Baro.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Darknecron

[StealthDragoon]

It's pretty simple for me: I don't have time anymore to look for squads of people who share the same relics just to spam the same mission to get a very specific part. I used to be ok with Capture/Mobile Def key spam, but now this "camp the fissure" thing kills it.

SORT killed ducat farming for me. It just takes too long to get stuff now. And like OP says, if I need anything at all from Baro, I will have to fork out plat for it. I can also say goodbye to any new skin he brings.

[TrueHawkEye]

12 minutes ago, Darknecron said:

Your second sentence shows the fallacy in your first.  That, and you are running on the assumption that all players have stockpiles of Ducats.

Well here is what the DE staff said. I know not everyone has stock piles.

On 2016-07-29 at 1:55 PM, [DE]Drew said:

There are no changes yet to Baro's prices because Ducat savings haven't changed significantly since before Baro's last visit. We made a change to Prime Part pricing earlier this week, and we need to see the effect of that first. If the number of Ducats in the economy hasn't really changed, it doesn't make sense to change the Ducat prices yet. We're continuing to monitor and will make adjustments as needed moving forward. 

I've added this thread to the original PSA and updated the OP. 

[Darknecron]

3 minutes ago, StealthDragoon said:

It's pretty simple for me: I don't have time anymore to look for squads of people who share the same relics just to spam the same mission to get a very specific part. I used to be ok with Capture/Mobile Def key spam, but now this "camp the fissure" thing kills it.

SORT killed ducat farming for me. It just takes too long to get stuff now. And like OP says, if I need anything at all from Baro, I will have to fork out plat for it. I can also say goodbye to any new skin he brings.

I found that running Lith fissures (in Capture/ Rescue / Exterminate missions) with relics that yielded the common, yet Ducat-valuable items I listed went even faster than Ducat farming pre-SOTR.

[Elyann]

I don't like this.
Since specters of the rail the game feels much much worse.
- void 2.0 made prime parts prices sink in the market making it harder for players to earn it   ( implicitely incentivating them to buy it )
- kavats take a lot longer than kubrows to be farmed ( I'd say 5 mins to get an egg, a day or 2 to get dna samples ) almost feeling like you have to buy one if you want one ( and you'd still risk to get a race you don't need / cat you don't like )
- relics are burnt out way faster than keys ( no longer hosting for friends or joining their runs ) and you also have to grind more in order to refine them to have a slighty better rng attempt to get what you want.
- ducats prices rework actually looks like they decreased every item's value unless said item is worth platinum ( it took me the whole weekend to get the mods I wanted, grinding for about 5-6 hours a day....this was not nice at all )
-archwings now require players to spend more plat on slots....
-the purpouse of having forma'd or reactored / catalyzed frames or weapons practically disappeared.....void endless runs don't exist anymore....no more multiple rewards from 1 single key....

Don't misunderstand me...I like the game...and I'd totally support devs if I didn't feel like the game is slowly turning into a cash grab more and more...
I think I once used to be more happy about supporting the game....now this makes me feel bad.
Also...didn't they say at the start of this year that they wanted to "reduce the grind ?" . Cause it feels like it's doubled

[wathor88]

ducat wise i am very low since the sotr....platin wise i dont know what to do with that much ;)

so i just buy with my plat the parts or mods that daro offers and sell the things i get from the fissure missions

[Darknecron]

3 minutes ago, TrueHawkEye said:

Well here is what the DE staff said. I know not everyone has stock piles.

 

Oh... well, if that is the case, then they expect to reduce Baro prices in the future.  With that in mind, these item-Ducat-value changes now seem reasonable.

Thank you for informing me!

Edited July 31, 2016 by Darknecron

[StealthDragoon]

6 minutes ago, Darknecron said:

I found that running Lith fissures (in Capture/ Rescue / Exterminate missions) with relics that yielded the common, yet Ducat-valuable items I listed went even faster than Ducat farming pre-SOTR.

ok then, what happens on days when you don't have fissures with these mission types? (I don't know how it works, I haven't played enough)

[Darknecron]

1 minute ago, StealthDragoon said:

ok then, what happens on days when you don't have fissures with these mission types? (I don't know how it works, I haven't played enough)

I, personally, don't play fissures unless they are on those mission types.

[TrueHawkEye]

5 minutes ago, Darknecron said:

Oh... well, if that is the case, then they expect to reduce Baro prices in the future.  With that in mind, these item-Ducat-value changes now seem reasonable.

Thank you for informing me!

ya just when that is the question, they need to give the hoarders something to buy so everyone else can feel less pressure. plus he is sopost to sell rare relics with older parts was only mention in a dev stream or prime time but has yet to be introduce or set in concrete. 

[stormsasuke180]

14 minutes ago, StealthDragoon said:

ok then, what happens on days when you don't have fissures with these mission types? (I don't know how it works, I haven't played enough)

On those days,farm more relics. They drain your relics fast.

[TheSteelRat]

now it seems you need relics to get ducats, and traces to get MORE ducats.

 

[Darknecron]

27 minutes ago, Elyann said:

I don't like this.
Since specters of the rail the game feels much much worse.
- void 2.0 made prime parts prices sink in the market making it harder for players to earn it   ( implicitely incentivating them to buy it )
- kavats take a lot longer than kubrows to be farmed ( I'd say 5 mins to get an egg, a day or 2 to get dna samples ) almost feeling like you have to buy one if you want one ( and you'd still risk to get a race you don't need / cat you don't like )
- relics are burnt out way faster than keys ( no longer hosting for friends or joining their runs ) and you also have to grind more in order to refine them to have a slighty better rng attempt to get what you want.
- ducats prices rework actually looks like they decreased every item's value unless said item is worth platinum ( it took me the whole weekend to get the mods I wanted, grinding for about 5-6 hours a day....this was not nice at all )
-archwings now require players to spend more plat on slots....
-the purpouse of having forma'd or reactored / catalyzed frames or weapons practically disappeared.....void endless runs don't exist anymore....no more multiple rewards from 1 single key....

Don't misunderstand me...I like the game...and I'd totally support devs if I didn't feel like the game is slowly turning into a cash grab more and more...
I think I once used to be more happy about supporting the game....now this makes me feel bad.
Also...didn't they say at the start of this year that they wanted to "reduce the grind ?" . Cause it feels like it's doubled

1. While also making prime parts cheaper for said players to obtain.  The crappy part is that the lower plat value of prime parts makes catalysts / reactors / exilus adapters / slots / etc harder to obtain without putting money into the game.
2. I agree.I expected to get one DNA sequence per Kavat scan, but instead we got a chance of getting one for every mission we performed scans on Kavats.
3. This is true, but it also reduced the amount of time spent looking for the prime parts you need since you get up to four rolls for it, assuming everyone has the same key (I do have to say... not being able to carry my noob friends through T3/4 makes me pretty sad) I wouldn't say that we're "grinding more in order to refine them" since that functionality is entirely new and happens alongside the rift runs themselves (effectively reducing grind, in fact).
4. I changed my OP to reflect what TheHawkEye mentioned to me.
5. Yep, this is dumb... in fact, I think the entire "paying-for-slots" system is dumb.
6. Not sure what you mean by that | Yes, I miss endless void mission, too... and the credit rewards from Void missions.

 

3 minutes ago, kkinnison said:

now it seems you need relics to get ducats, and traces to get MORE ducats.

 

It's almost like they replaced keys... and added the functionality of getting to improve a key here and there while you are farming prime parts!

Edited July 31, 2016 by Darknecron

[ddips]

prime parts got a ducat buff, they sell for more ducats, for example vauban prime bp sells for 100 ducats.

[Ghogiel]

There was never any need to convert primes to ducats unless explicitly needed at that moment for a Baro purchase. Primes were always more valuable being left as primes and not converted to ducats, just to have a useless stash it. *

 

*the only time it was worth doing that was inbetween SoTR and the ducat price change on all the commons that were 50 ducats, Nova sys, Nyx Bp etc

Since we knew they were changing the ducat prices a couple weeks ago and were even given a rough estimate of what those changes were going to be, many players made ducat bank on all the common 50s. I think I made about 3k ducats just from those since specters came out. So you can blame players like me for the current ducat surplus and the fact Baro hasn't brought anything good or new since  SoTR. 

[Darknecron]

7 minutes ago, iamDDips said:

prime parts got a ducat buff, they sell for more ducats, for example vauban prime bp sells for 100 ducats.

Vauban Prime BP is worth ~30p.  100 Ducats / 30p = ~3.3 Ducats per plat.  That is a TERRIBLE ratio.  As I said in my OP, this makes you lose MUCH more plat when trying to obtain Ducats.

 

Anyways, all this is a muke point since I linked Dev-posted info in the OP.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Darknecron

[Lisztomaniac]

11 minutes ago, iamDDips said:

prime parts got a ducat buff, they sell for more ducats, for example vauban prime bp sells for 100 ducats.

not to call you a sheep but youre using sheep mentaility, "its ok because if i sell this vauban P bp now i get 100 ducats" the rares prime parts now sell for 100 yeah cool, and 90% of the rest of the primes sell for the same price with a 5-10 ducat increase, thats cool right? 

until you realize the concept of prime trash is gone, since now you cant farm prime parts you cant really sell a lot of parts for a reasonable amount of planitum, now its eithert you sell that vauban BP for the 100 ducats (wich dont ger me wrong its a lot for a single item) or your get S#&amp;&#036; on by the new system.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Lisztomaniac

[Marine027]

4 minutes ago, kkinnison said:

now it seems you need relics to get ducats, and traces to get MORE ducats.

 

It just highers the chance you sitll can have a rare part with a lower chance going in a group.

 

To the whole "ducat nerf" before teh price change i had priem items worth around 2200, after the change 3080, witohut farming any prime items in between, besides the Void Trader was and is always just a gimmik for people having to much prime items and most the time offers msotly cosmetic stuff while the mods or weapons can get traded and everything coese back one time or another, save your prime parts and sell them when you need the ducats, if not safe for the next times.

How hard is that, getting sick of this kind of threads you know, one side complains it costs to much the other sdie drowning in ducats complaisn he never has anything "usefull". Not like it don't use it, new palyers also have have to farm ducats over time or decide to sell them. Its this or that for them and for god sake, 2 wekks till he always comes back, i get enough ducats by probably doing onyl 1-2 rift missions a day without having to farm, 14 days one item worth for example 15 ducats, 15x14=210x2=420 and that already with only gettign the lowest items, an in between you sure get items worth 100.

Serioulsy, this is not providing critic to the game but just crying aorund how thigns are not anymore how they used ot be. Again, not like it not sue it, no one forces you same way you are not forced ot max all mods or farm everything. Because overall, having all the trader has right form the start, what goal do you have left od looking forward to coming back? Or anything else in the game, you whould stop palying becasue nothing ot do anymore left in it.

This game was and always is about grind and farming, complaining about the main aspects is like complaining you have to play with cards in a card game.