How do Saryn and Ember scale late game?

[eoniccosta]

Their abilities seem confusing(especially Saryn's) and other than status procs such as viral has do Saryn and Ember scale late game?

[Trichouette]

Ember doesn't scale well against armored and shielded enemies (corpus & grineer and some infested that grant armor) because of fire dealing less damage against armor.

Saryn scales amazingly well because of viral & toxin proc. Viral halve the hp of enemies while toxin deal damage to hp and bypass shield.

[Drathe]

Ember does work decently well in the late game, but not as a damage dealer - fire damage falls off quickly in the mid-game. However, Firequake can make her a solid CC frame on mid-sized groups of enemies.

[VKhaun]

I love Ember and the Accelerant build does not get the credit it deserves, but I gotta agree with Trichouette in the end. It just doesn't overcome armor. There's no augment for it yet though. An augment to give us even a small armor debuff combined with a little power strength, corrosive projection and the drift mod that buffs auras... she could be top tier again real quick because the rest of the build is rock solid. Cheap, spammable CC with duration long enough that you can put fleeting expertise on it and still have plenty of time to kill enemies.

[Dualstar]

Saryn dispensing Viral procs is a significant benefit to herself and any team shes part of.

Ember, as an almost pure damage dealer, cannot keep up simply due to enemy health eventually outstripping her ability to deal damage.

[Dreddeth]

Saryn scales amazingly well since both of her procs ignore shields and Toxin deals extra damage to Ferrite armor, but she's also quite complex to master compared to other frames. You pretty much need to make competent use of every aspect of her kit to get the most out of her.

The very basics boil down to something like this: Spore is your bread and butter for the spreading Viral and Toxin procs, Molt is for shedding aggro/setting up bombs so you can get out of danger safely, Toxic Lash is your second bread and butter for getting those massive Toxin procs, and Miasma is a finisher for when everything left alive has already been procced with Viral and Toxin. Also while she is tanky, she's not Valkyr, so you will want to Get Out Of Dodge after a combo or two.

Ember's Heat damage, on the other hand, is lacking due to being reduced by armor and shields, though the proc is pretty nice CC. Compared to Saryn, her assorted builds are generally more binary, and thus much easier to get the most out of. Is the ability you built for active? No? Cast it. Yes? If it's World on Fire, sprint in circles. If it's Accelerant, whip out a gun with high Heat damage and shoot all the things.

[eoniccosta]

54 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Ember doesn't scale well against armored and shielded enemies (corpus & grineer and some infested that grant armor) because of fire dealing less damage against armor.

Saryn scales amazingly well because of viral & toxin proc. Viral halve the hp of enemies while toxin deal damage to hp and bypass shield.

Is toxin damage a % of enemies health?

[taiiat]

nothing deals good Damage vs large amounts of Armor - Ember still fares better than many other Warframes that don't have the capability to casually remove Armor, since Accelerant will significantly Multiply all of your Fire Damage.

some of the 'scaling' that Saryn has are immense mathematical Exploits that Players take advantage of. but aside from those issues, mechanically Saryn has a relatively flexible Toolkit.
there's other problems with having no source of CC, a way to slow or immobilize a group of Enemies periodically is pretty important to the style of game we're playing. Players don't need to be able to turn Enemies off but being able to control them periodically is pretty well mandatory.

[Trichouette]

8 minutes ago, eoniccosta said:

Is toxin damage a % of enemies health?

Nope but it deals incredible damage, stacks with itself, and scale with crit & headshot.

[(XBOX)Twinna25]

Ember's damage falls off hard late game...cc never falls off however. That is due to the fire proc, which includes panic for fourseconds in which enemies do nothing at all. 

Saryn scales precisely due to the spores. If i can pop 20 spores in a few seconds, with each halving the enemies health...how screwed are they then. A million EHP becomes 0.95 after 20 viral procs, which then affect the room as well.

[rapt0rman]

23 minutes ago, (XB1)Twinna25 said:

Ember's damage falls off hard late game...cc never falls off however. That is due to the fire proc, which includes panic for fourseconds in which enemies do nothing at all. 

Saryn scales precisely due to the spores. If i can pop 20 spores in a few seconds, with each halving the enemies health...how screwed are they then. A million EHP becomes 0.95 after 20 viral procs, which then affect the room as well.

Viral only halves HP once, any subsequent procs only reset the timer.

Edited August 3, 2016 by rapt0rman

[(XBOX)Twinna25]

1 hour ago, rapt0rman said:

Viral only halves HP once, any subsequent procs only reset the timer.

Ah, thanks for that. Although the point still applies. It means you only need half the damage quite easily, along with it's aoe.

[rapt0rman]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)Twinna25 said:

Ah, thanks for that. Although the point still applies. It means you only need half the damage quite easily, along with it's aoe.

Yeah, the main benefit of spore is making sure viral stays on as many enemies as possible and spreading what can sometimes be heavily damage multiplied toxin procs from your main target.

[SanguineSavant]

One thing not mentioned about Ember and her Firequake build. Run CP instead of ES. It'll help against the armor as you won't benefit from ES anyway as WoF cancels the energy gain out. You can also take Energy Conversion in place of any power strength mods as you will usually only need to cast WoF once per mission, like any channeled powers, and the likelihood of finding an energy orb early mission is pretty high.

 

In regards to Saryn I tend to run a ranged spore build as it not only CCs and sets up enemies for damage but the constant number ticks makes me aware of how many I will be dealing with around the corner, so it also helps from an intel perspective.