Equinox - Night and Day: A (badly needed) Rework

[BlackCoMerc]

Equinox is about to be Obsoleted. Once Nyx gets her new Augment, to allow movement with Absorb active...well, exploding to release lots of damage was the one thing Equinox did.

We need a rework. Let's try it:

Passive: Unchanged

Armor: 100

Health: 100

Shield: 100

Power: 150

Abilities:

 

1. Metamorphosis:

When shifting to day form, emit a blinding flash of light. Enemies within 5m are staggered and blinded for 5 seconds.

Gain 100 armor and a 25℅ bonus to weapon damage, (or possibly 100 Shields) while in Day Mode.

When shifting to night form, become invisible for 10 seconds, and silence all weapons used during this time.

Gain 100 health and 100 Shields (or possibly Energy) while in Night mode.

Augment: Duration extended to 12 seconds.

 

2. Rest and Rage:

Night Form: Equinox casts a restful Sleep over all enemies in a 5m Radius (range) for 15 seconds (duration). Damage dealt to sleeping enemies adds double the amount to Mend and Maim pool, but will wake them if they survive.

Day Form: Emits a blast of concussive energy in a 10m radius (Range). Enemies affected suffer a stagger, and a Puncture Proc for 5 seconds (duration). During this time, they take +50℅ damage. This damage adds double the amount dealt to Mend and Maim pool.

Augment: unchanged.

 

3. Pacify and Provoke - 25, 10 energy/second

Night Form: enemies within 10m (Range) are slowed by 20/40/60℅, and deal 10/15/20℅ less damage for 20 seconds (Duration). 10℅ of damage dealt by these enemies is added to Mend and Maim pool.

Day Form: Power Strength is increased for Equinox and Allies by 10/20/30℅ (Strength) while active, and Equinox gains an additional 50℅ Armor Bonus. Damage dealt while Provoke is active, adds an additional 10℅ to the Mend and Maim pool.

Augment:

Pacify creates an Aura that converts a portion of damage from enemies into healing energy for Equinox and Allies.

Provoke: The aura instead reflects a portion of enemy damage back at its source, as opposed to it being dealt to Tenno.

Effects from one mode continue operating following a Metamorphosis. Using the ability again will renew it's Duration, with the new effect.

 

4. Mend and Maim:

Damage pool now carries over between Night and Day modes.

For other abilities to add bonus damage to the pool, Mend/Maim must be Active.

Night Mode: 

Casting once refills 100 health to all Tenno and allies, drained from the pool.

Holding Cast drains the pool, refilling health to all as long as Equinox keeps casting.

Day Mode:

Works the same as now, except enemies still staggered from the initial Bleed effect would suffer Explosion damage as Finisher damage instead of normal types.

Survivors suffer 5 seconds of Radiation damage, with a 50℅ proc chance.

Augment - Shelter and Protect:

Instead of healing, Mend channels energy into a protective dome with a 10m radius and health equal to the damage channeled. Channeling inside the dome renews and stacks it's remaining health.

Instead of dealing damage, Maim sends a surge of energy through Tenno, refilling energy and shields, including over shields, up to a cap. The next ability cast by affected Warframes costs no energy.

 

So here we are. An Equinox where hopefully every ability is now somewhat appealing. A less one dimensional frame.

Thoughts?

 

Edited August 7, 2016 by BlackCoMerc

[tnccs215]

Hey.

I have to say, I am happy someone wrote an Equinox rework thread. I have been dying for one for god knows how long.

However, I think you alter too much things that only need some tweaking.

Sometimes, only little things are required to make something not great something awesome. Sometimes, adding more than that is either unnecessary baggage or overbuffing. And unfortunately, I think you did both in your rework.

Believe in me, I want Equinox to be reviewed incredibly bad. I want her to be fluid, dynamic, and not the cheese fest and poorly executed frame she is. Hell, half of my topics are about her. I once even wrote a 3k word pm to Rebecca about her.

But I simply cannot fully support your changes. Soon, I'll add a deeper review about your proposition, but for now, I'll just live this as it is.

[Soketsu]

Let's be honest, Oberon & Ash will come 1st, we won't have any change anytime soon.

[tnccs215]

8 minutes ago, Soketsu said:

Let's be honest, Oberon & Ash will come 1st, we won't have any change anytime soon.

Consensus seems to be "she's fine"

However, honestly, so is Ash. With Oberon I can't argue that he deserves better. He features poor scalability, weird but lackluster powers, and is popular. Ash only has the popularity factor.

Seeing Warframe as a product from which use the salary of some people is dependent, I can understand such prioritization. From a balancing point of view, though.... Meh.

[BlackCoMerc]

26 minutes ago, Soketsu said:

Let's be honest, Oberon & Ash will come 1st, we won't have any change anytime soon.

Which worries me, because that new Augment for Nyx us really going to rob Equinox of its only real role (run round and blow S#&$ up).

[tnccs215]

49 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Which worries me, because that new Augment for Nyx us really going to rob Equinox of its only real role (run round and blow S#&$ up).

Not to mention how rest is less and less unique. It is exactly a 4th of an Ivara's power, and both Inaros and Titania have equally effective hard CC "1"'s. The idea that she is "good enough" gets weaker and weaker, because what her night form does, others do too, and more.

Its not a cade of "yes they are beyter, but she's unique in everything else she gives" cause, honestly.. She doesnt give that much.

[WinterishRope]

I've really come to enjoy equinox with the rest / rage augment actually. I like her the way she is now. Every ability feels useful depending on the setup. Just some slight reworks to pacify/[provoke would be needed imo.

Edited August 6, 2016 by WinterishRope

[tnccs215]

42 minutes ago, WinterishRope said:

I've really come to enjoy equinox with the rest / rage augment actually. I like her the way she is now. Every ability feels useful depending on the setup. Just some slight reworks to pacify/[provoke would be needed imo.

ya running the maim/rest build?

 

[BlackCoMerc]

4 hours ago, WinterishRope said:

I've really come to enjoy equinox with the rest / rage augment actually. I like her the way she is now. Every ability feels useful depending on the setup. Just some slight reworks to pacify/[provoke would be needed imo.

This build shouldn't mess with what you, and I, like about her, then. Rest and Maim are two things I don't want to change. Well, a little more AoE to Rest.

[tnccs215]

I apologise for not having written my commentary on your rework idea yet. However, while thinking about it, an "epiphany" regarding her, and how her lackluster kit is excused by the community, struck me. I posted it on another topic were people whose input I desire constantly comment, and what I wrote was this:  

4 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

Wanna ask you all your opinion on what follows, since you seem to know what you are talking about (at least more than many in this forums), and I need a second opinion:

  Reveal hidden contents

The only premise that I ask you to take as truthful, even though it does demand some explanation, is the fact that each Aspect, for all intents and purposes, is pretty much half a frame. I could support this basing myself on how each one only has 3 real powers, on how either one of those other three powers is practically useless (Rage) or how two of the powers are so lackluster by themselves that they basically count has half a power (Pacify and Mend), but that would simply make this too long. And it is already going to be rather long. Fact is, should Night Form had been released as a standalone frame (with a primary ability correspondent to the buffs metamorphosis currently grants-- that is, borderline irrelevant), Pacify and Mend would be considered unacceptable; and should Day Form suffer the same fate, she would be considered a p42w frame, due to Rage's borderline uselessness, and Provokes nice, but non-gamechanging one. But I digress, let's start.

I'm awfully biased towards Equinox, I admit that. I've already started two discussions about her on this very thread--- and I apologise for the stubbornness. 

However, the odd thing is that while I love her style, theme and etc, I find her execution extremely lackluster. I've always felt that she simply didn't offer enough, and was only worth mentioning due to Rest (at the time the only of it's kind, though quickly surpassed by Ivara's quiver, Inaro's 1, Radial Blind, and etc) and Maim. However, presenting her to the community, at the exception of a few who did agreed with me, resulted in a consensus of "eh, she's fine".

It was mostly hard to pin down exactly from where did this conformity that seemed to me a rather lackluster kit came from. However, I was able to deduce that most people are ok with it was, above all, because she's able to change both aspects. The argument implied was, above all, that since she could be two frames, it made sense that each Form was half a frame, therefore having powers that would be unacceptable should they be in a standalone frame-- and this ignoring the fact that, technically, each aspect only has 3 powers instead of the usual 4-- is acceptable on this particular case._{(to make it official, this is the argument that I will try to refute)}

That never felt right to me. Fact is, since you are dependent on Metamorphosis for the full use of her potential, and since (at the exception of Rest&Rage) no power stays active after you change form (Maim and provoke cease to exist once you use metamorphosis, and vice-versa), she is not a "Jack Frame" such as Oberon: she is not both offensive and defensive, sacrificing specialisation for versatility, but yes either Offensive-support or Defensive-support. She is not two frames, but one frame that either be one frame, or another frame. But not both.

What I mean is that a perfect allegory to explain why being able to switch aspects is not a suitable justification for each of them being lackluster is none other than Schrodinger's Cat.

As I'm sure you all know, if you put a cat in a box with a poison that has a 50% chance of killing him; the cat inside the box, for all intents and purposes, is "simultaneously" dead and alive. However, this is only so because the cat possesses the characteristic of being either dead or alive when he gets out of the box. The cat "isn't" both, but can be either.

The most important thing, however, is that, when out of the box, it's a cat. A full bodied cat. It does not make sense that the cat, when opening the box, to either be a living half of a cat, nor a dead half of a cat. Because when the cat is one, he is not the other. And vice-versa. 

A similar logic applies to Equinox: When she is one, she's not the other. For all intents and purposes-- mainly because, as said before, no Equinox power _{(except for Rest/Rage,but it's effect is almost irrelevant since Rage is barely used, and Rest effect can be redundant with Maim's stun)} exists after her metamorphosis, her other form does not exist. When the cat is alive, it isn't dead. When the cat is dead, it isn't alive.

Equinox ends up being a Schrodinger's Cat whose box is the Orbiter, and even though she possesses the ability to change her state of dead or alive, she can only be in one of them. And so, just like it does not make sense for the cat that comes out of the box to be not a full cat, but half a cat, it does not make sense for an Aspect to not be a fully capable warframe on it's own.

 

One could argue that being able to change role is a benefit by itself: the fact that you can be either one or another justify the fact that each Aspect should only be has strong has half another frame. However, there is a simple way to weaken this counter-argument:

Let's imagine a reworked, improved and actually good Oberon. In this Oberon, his offensive abilities are completely differentiated from his defensive: let's imagine Smite and Reckoning are purely offensive, while Hallowed Ground and Renewal are purely defensive. He has two powers for each role: half of him is defensive, the other half is offensive. Would it make sense, therefore, that a new "power" would be introduced, that effectively prevented you from using or benefiting from your defensive powers should you wish to use your offensive powers (and vice-versa)? A power that you would have to press to be able to use the other half of a frame's kit, and that completely nullified any lingering effect that your other abilities left?

It would not: after all, fundamental part of being one frame is being able to use your whole kit simultaneously. To prevent use of half of your kit is effectively reducing this balanced Oberon to half a frame-- either half of a defensive frame, or half of an offensive frame. But never a Jack-of-all-trades, never a full offensive frame, and never a full defensive frame. In the end, all in all, you'd always be half a frame. And there is not point in using half a frame when you have 26 other full frames to choose.

There is however, no denial that being able to change role is by itself a trait. However, as appointed above, it does not make sense for each Aspect to perform their role at half the efficiency of a specialized frame (and they are already prevented from being a Jack frame due to not being able to use the whole kit simultaneously). We can argue, therefore, that the performance of an Aspect should be between that of a full specialised frame, and of half a specialised frame-- three quarters of a frame.

Coincidentally, 3/4 is the number of powers that Equinox has left to dedicate to specialized powers, the other one being taken by metamorphosis. 

This means that each and all of those powers should be just as powerful as those of a standalone frame-- less than that and you are better of with a Jack-of-all-trades frame, who will be able to perform just as well and without the hindering of form swapping and power deactivation.-- and that there is no good justification for her overall inferior kit.-- specially since she lacks any form of fluidity and sinergy between forms, and effectively punishes you for changing.

It can also be argued that powers should not deactivate upon metamorphosis, but instead become the other Form's equivalent (this means both Pacify/Provoke and Mend/Maim should transfer. Maybe even Rest/Rage should). This is not only because Warframe is a highly reactive game and having your powers deactivated instead of morphed is more of an hindering annoyance and clunkiness than anything else; but also because, for all intents and purposes, when changing back to a form... you were always on that form. When a cat is alive, there are no events that denote the start of his livelihood, just like there are no events denoting the start of his death (ok, there are, but what I mean is that, should a cat change from alive to just dead, there would be no "preparations" for the restart, or re-end, of its life). effectively, when you become Night Form again, it is as if you wer always Night Form, and when you change to Day Form, it is as if you were always on day form. I admit, however, that I might be stretching out my argument a bit thin on this parts.

  Reveal hidden contents

My idea of what Equinox was meant to be is, ironically, a balance not between offense and defense, but of specialization and pure versatility. She is not capable of the versatility that a Jack Frame is, however she possesses more specialized power to compensate. In return, she does not possesses as much specialization as a specialized frame, but possesses instead much more versatility. The fact she has one less power on her kit prevents her from being (two) true specialized frames, while the need to change aspect prevent her from being a truly  versatile. However, along the creation process, this balance was lost: the faith on the benefits of being able to change role were overestimated, leading to power kits that belong to a Jack frame _{(I believe that, if we fuse her mirror powers into one that grants both benefits, we get a trully good, but not overpowered, Jack frame. yes, perhaps Rest/Rage could use some tweaking, and Mend/Maim have it's initial damage removed, but overall it would be a purely versatile, "jack of all trades frame" (Pacify and Provoke, in particular, seem each to be half a power; and their fusion would be simply be a rather competent and unique power that would grant both supportive offense and defense without giving too much of one or another)} ;while simultaneously hindering her with the metamorphosis mechanic, which not only inherently reduces-- and heavily--  the dynamism fundamental for a versatile frame, it also sports additional characteristics that reduce even further said dynamism; In particular power deactivation instead of transformation (or even maintenance, though I think that would make metamorphosis irrelevant), and a kit that relies heavily on build-ups-- which further lock Equinox in a certain Aspect.

The result was a frame that either has half of an offensive kit or half of a defensive kit, but almost no fluidity or dynamism enough to properly use both. In fear of giving her too much, she was left with nothing-- and her only redeeming qualities are somewhat cheesie powers that, though borderline dull, prevent her from being completely obsolete.

Overall, and to my great sadness, her execution was a complete failure.  

 

Regardless, I'd like to hear any comments on this.

Finally, I'm terribly sorry for the enormous wall of text. I trully, deeply am. However, for some reason, this frame is very dear to me, and I trully want your input on this... analysis.

 

Feel free to give it too.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

I think this rework goes against the point of Equinox, which is to be completely split between her 2 forms, and switch between as necessary. Long periods of time may be spent in one, but it's not like she should have to switch often. She is most effective with frequent switching, and what people don't realize is, here abilities have incredible synergy, and practically infinite scaling. One example is a Rest, Metamorphosis, Maim, finisher combo. Even against level 150 enemies, she can stab apart the bullet sponges, and slash nuke the trash enemies. If you're not using Covert Lethality, Rest and Rage will work wonders together when you just can't one-shot anymore, especially if you perform the finishers after switching to day form. Equinox is just one of those warframes that are difficult to use, like Banshee and Limbo.

8 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

Consensus seems to be "she's fine"

However, honestly, so is Ash. With Oberon I can't argue that he deserves better. He features poor scalability, weird but lackluster powers, and is popular. Ash only has the popularity factor.

Seeing Warframe as a product from which use the salary of some people is dependent, I can understand such prioritization. From a balancing point of view, though.... Meh.

Oberon is actually quite good. Hallowed Ground is bad, but the rest of his abilities are good. People don't get the point of Oberon either, but once people understand that he's the Swiss army knife of Warframe, maybe they'll stop trying to make him a primarily damage warframe or a healer that's supposed to rival Trinity. I think Nyx and Hydroid need the most work. 

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Equinox definitely needs a rework, one thing I would suggest is to make the forms actually different from each other with their own passives because her current one is underwhelming to say the least. Make day form the speedy glass cannon, no defensive bonuses but give increases, permanent ones, to speed and maybe some parlour stats, give night form extra health and armor and maybe even a passive health regen. Give day form extra abilities that increase damage, give night form extra CC and support powers. Just make equinox actually useful.

[SenorClipClop]

13 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Equinox is about to be Obsoleted. Once Nyx gets her new Augment, to allow movement with Absorb active...well, exploding to release lots of damage was the one thing Equinox did.

Sounds like the issue is that too many players use only Maim when they run Equinox. Which is fine, but they aren't using her to her full potential. Equinox's kit is super useful for a wide range of situations. If we still need reasons to run Equinox instead of augmented Nyx, how about: Equinox is a little tankier, has a heal, an enemy damage debuff, a team power boost and smaller yet harder CC with opportunity for finishers. With the exception of one of their abilities dealing large radial damage, the two frames are completely different.

2 hours ago, Eldritchkitty said:

Make day form the speedy glass cannon, no defensive bonuses but give increases, permanent ones, to speed and maybe some parlour stats, give night form extra health and armor and maybe even a passive health regen. Give day form extra abilities that increase damage, give night form extra CC and support powers.

Equinox already does pretty much all of this. The reason Metamorphosis' bonuses decay over time is so that players are encouraged to be regularly switching between Equinox's two forms instead of just picking one and staying in it (which a lot of players still do anyway). Switching forms every 30 seconds or so ensures that she is always running some kind of stat boost, making her significantly stronger than normal (provided you have decent Strength on her), and a player makes the best use of this by judging the best time to gain which bonus.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

5 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Sounds like the issue is that too many players use only Maim when they run Equinox. Which is fine, but they aren't using her to her full potential. Equinox's kit is super useful for a wide range of situations. If we still need reasons to run Equinox instead of augmented Nyx, how about: Equinox is a little tankier, has a heal, an enemy damage debuff, a team power boost and smaller yet harder CC with opportunity for finishers. With the exception of one of their abilities dealing large radial damage, the two frames are completely different.

Equinox already does pretty much all of this. The reason Metamorphosis' bonuses decay over time is so that players are encouraged to be regularly switching between Equinox's two forms instead of just picking one and staying in it (which a lot of players still do anyway). Switching forms every 30 seconds or so ensures that she is always running some kind of stat boost, making her significantly stronger than normal (provided you have decent Strength on her), and a player makes the best use of this by judging the best time to gain which bonus.

Why don't you explain exactly how her kit is useful then compared to other frames trying to do the job? Nova and Nekros can slow enemies, Ivara can put enemies to sleep, Trin can heal, what does she offer that other frames don't? Even just playing her feels underwhelming and I'm hardly the only one who thinks so. I understand that you disagree, but I want to hear the actual logic behind you thinking her kit puts her on par with other frames.

[tnccs215]

5 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Sounds like the issue is that too many players use only Maim when they run Equinox. Which is fine, but they aren't using her to her full potential. Equinox's kit is super useful for a wide range of situations. If we still need reasons to run Equinox instead of augmented Nyx, how about: Equinox is a little tankier,

Kinda irrelevant to be honest. Nyx's Chaos more than makes up for it.

 

6 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

has a heal,

Which takes forever to put in effect to the point that, all things considered, you are better of running life strike

 

16 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

an enemy damage debuff, 

Which is nothing but a worthless energy sink, or an energy sink that requires you to give up on half of your abilities to actually become useful.

Don't disagree with the rest.

17 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Equinox already does pretty much all of this.

No, she should do. She doesnt.

 

20 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

The reason Metamorphosis' bonuses decay over time is so that players are encouraged to be regularly switching between Equinox's two forms instead of just picking one and staying in it (which a lot of players still do anyway). Switching forms every 30 seconds or so ensures that she is always running some kind of stat boost, making her significantly stronger than normal (provided you have decent Strength on her), and a player makes the best use of this by judging the best time to gain which bonus.

Which would all be fine and dandy, if you weren't constantly unencouraged from switching form, such as abilities that deactivate on metamorphosis, band-aid Augments that require build ups, and therefore that you stay in a form for a relatively prolongued amount of time, etc etc etc.

Don't take me wrong, I veemently disagree with the OP. But to say that Equinox is "fine" is simply not true, nor valid.

[SenorClipClop]

6 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

Why don't you explain exactly how her kit is useful then compared to other frames trying to do the job? Nova and Nekros can slow enemies, Ivara can put enemies to sleep, Trin can heal, what does she offer that other frames don't?

Short answer: she offers the ability to do all of that.

Long answer: Ivara can't heal, Trin can't slow, Nova and Nekros can't put enemies to sleep. If want to be able to do all of that by myself, I take Equinox. Certain frames are specialized (Ash kills things, Vauban CCs things, Trin supports things), others are made to tackle a wide variety of situations. Developing good squad comps will favor specialized frames since all jobs are covered, while more versatile frames (some call them "jack" frames) allow a single player to do a bit of everything.

(In a squad, I often get the most out of Equinox over using other frames when the rest of my team is idiots: I can amp their damage, gimp the enemies' damage, supply my own damage, tank a little, CC and heal as needed.)

Short answer 2: She's the only frame that provides a percent boost to Power damage. Pair with Nova and/or Cali for some good times.

[tnccs215]

36 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

Why don't you explain exactly how her kit is useful then compared to other frames trying to do the job? Nova and Nekros can slow enemies, Ivara can put enemies to sleep, Trin can heal, what does she offer that other frames don't? Even just playing her feels underwhelming and I'm hardly the only one who thinks so. I understand that you disagree, but I want to hear the actual logic behind you thinking her kit puts her on par with other frames.

Don't go the "other frames do it better" way. It is true, but sometimes it is the mix of the powers that makes the strength, not each power by itself.

This doesn't mean, however, that she is one of those cases. Her Rest is literally a forth of another frame's one, and her other abilities--barrying Maim-- are simply not good enough neither alone nor together. And if you think that that is ok because she has two sides, well, you have that enormous wall of text written by me explaining why you are wrong.

Edited August 7, 2016 by tnccs215

[ashrah]

equinox need some small tweaks.....personally i would change only first skill  switching form u get permanent buff for duration of mission...

[Eldritchsqueaker]

8 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

Don't go the "other frames do it better" way. It is true, but sometimes it is the mix of the powers that makes the strength, not each power by itself.

This doesn't mean, however, that she is one of those cases. Her 1 is literally a forth of another frame's one, and her other abilities--barrying Maim-- are simply not good enough neither alone nor together. And if you think that that is ok because she has two sides, well, you have that enormous wall of text written by me explaining why you are wrong.

Fair enough, I don't agree with OP's changes either but she does need to be changed, even simple things like having buffs from peaceful provocation carry over instead of get wiped when switching, or having some effect activate when she switches with her one other than bonuses. Maybe a short range blind when switching to day and I dunno maybe heal nearby or some other support based ability fitting with the night theme. I still honestly think that each side should get different passives, there's other ways to incentivize regular switching.. which could be like I said just having some ability activate on a switch.

[BlackCoMerc]

No offense to any of the posters here - I appreciate you stopping off to comment - but I see a lot of folks who disagree with the suggested rework. But I dont see a lot of reasons why.

I've tried, with these suggestions, to strictly improve on her more popular existing abilities, while making less popular ones better or reworking those that are often overlooked. I've even suggested day and night mode keep their buffs, though I am a little doubtful on the energy regen in Night Mode; I may look at changing that one to a speed bonus. 

So please do tell: What is it you disagree with, and why?

Thanks.

[WinterishRope]

12 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

ya running the maim/rest build?

 

Yes. So every ability is useful except for pacify/provoke. Id use peaceful provocation but i hate the mechanics for night form . Also if her buffs and stored affinity for her 4 could carry over when changed it make her feel like one frame and not 2 put into 1.

Edited August 7, 2016 by WinterishRope

[tnccs215]

44 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Short answer: she offers the ability to do all of that.

Long answer: Ivara can't heal, Trin can't slow, Nova and Nekros can't put enemies to sleep. If want to be able to do all of that by myself, I take Equinox. Certain frames are specialized (Ash kills things, Vauban CCs things, Trin supports things), others are made to tackle a wide variety of situations.

 

Again, that would be true if her powers were even halfway decent.

Most of them aren't. Mend is the single worst ultimate in the game, and the second worst heal, only beating Blazing Chackram. Problem is, however, that Blazing Chackram is a 2, and Mend is a ultimate.

Pacify is useless. It simply is. Unless you run it with the augment, the only effect on the battlefield you will see is your energy bar empty. And if you run with the augment, than you'll be effectively locked to Night Form if you actually want to see its effects-- so no "she can do all that" for her.

Rest is redeeming in the aspect that it is so utterly abusable it almost compensates for the rest of a severely lackluster kit. Of course, the same could be said about miasma and polarize.

Rage might has well not exist. It is either meaningless (lower levels) or suicidal (higher levels). Only way to make it worth anything is by nullifying its downsides with Rest-- but than again, you might just equip your cheesie covert lethality dagger and play the QTE game.

Provoke is interesting, but its use only shines in well organized groups. It requires constant proximity-- counterintuitive for a frame with Maim, meant to be jumping around at all times (oh, and I have to note even Chroma posesses an augment to compensate for his lack of range)-- And is the only non-useless ability that requires power strength, and the only day-form ability that scales well with power strength. Effectively, this ability is meaningless for the Equinox herself-- unless you like to increase Maim's WoF syndrome from low levels to mid-low levels-- and since you need 250% power strength and an augment to get 80% extra power strength, and that every single ability of Equinox (including this one) is much more useful with maximized range, chances are the buff you will realistically give to yourself and your teammates stands between 8% and around 55%. Which is neat, but honestly passable.

The only place it shines in is in Highly coordinated defenses, but honestly, you are usually better of taking a Rhino, or a Banshee, or other specialized buffers.

And then you have Maim that, while all in all a great ability, suffers (as I said before) from World of Fire syndrome-- which means it is ridiculously cheesie at lower levels. It wouldn't hurt it substituting it by damaging ticks that would take, together, around 20% enemy's health. Less cheesie, even better scaling. Win-win.

And all of this excluding how you are heavily discouraged from what could kinda be her saving grace. Form switching is clungy, a slow task. Metamorphosis buffs are nothing but little teases, that end up frustrating more than helping. Her most band-aid augment effectively makes it completely impractical, specially if you are using night form.

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

while more versatile frames (some call them "jack" frames) allow a single player to do a bit of everything.

Yeah, they do.

Problem is, Equinox is not a Jack frame. Equinox, like I've stated on that long post above, was meant to be a Jack-Specialized hybrid, sporting better specialized abilities than those of a Jack frame, but less versatility than them for the fact she cannot perform both roles simultaneously. Likewise, she does not perform a certain role as well as a frame specialized in it, but she compensates in the matter she can switch between roles.

Problem is, this power was overrated, and the result was a Jack Frame that can't use her kit simultaneously-- pretty much an oberon that can't use smite nor Reckoning if he wants to use Renewal or Hallowed Ground, and that the effects of the previous role dissapear once he changes.

So yes. An unversatile Jack frame, or a rather subpar specialized one. Take your pick.

Regardless, her powers don't work as well as you claim.

 

 

[tnccs215]

13 minutes ago, WinterishRope said:

Yes. So every ability is useful except for pacify/provoke. Id use peaceful provocation but i hate the mechanics for night form . Also if her buffs and stored affinity for her 4 could carry over when changed it make her feel like one frame and not 2 put into 1.

So you think a frame is fine even though a third of her kit (half, if you count the absence of a real 1st power) is literally useless?

Can you see the contradictions?

26 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

No offense to any of the posters here - I appreciate you stopping off to comment - but I see a lot of folks who disagree with the suggested rework. But I dont see a lot of reasons why.

I've tried, with these suggestions, to strictly improve on her more popular existing abilities, while making less popular ones better or reworking those that are often overlooked. I've even suggested day and night mode keep their buffs, though I am a little doubtful on the energy regen in Night Mode; I may look at changing that one to a speed bonus. 

So please do tell: What is it you disagree with, and why?

Thanks.

hush my boy, my critique is coming.

[BlackCoMerc]

2 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

So you think a frame is fine even though a third of her kit (half, if you count the absence of a real 1st power) is literally useless?

Can you see the contradictions?

hush my boy, my critique is coming.

Fair enough. Look forward to your take on it.

[tnccs215]

19 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Passive: Unchanged

This is my first gripe. Her current passive converts grants 2.5 energy per health orb acquired, and 2.5 health per energy orb acquired. All very interesting, except for the fact that the values are too small to be even vaguely relevant. While passive powers in Warframe usually aren't meant to be very gamechanging, that is very different from being completely irrelevant. Equinox's passive falls into this category. I think a increase to the convention amount wouldn't hurt anyone.

19 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

1. Metamorphosis:

When shifting to day form, emit a blinding flash of light. Enemies within 5m are staggered and blinded for 5 seconds.

Gain 100 armor and 100 shields in day form. Permanent day form bonus.

When shifting to night form, become Invisible for 5 seconds and emit a wave of energy that confuses and calms nearby enemies.

Gain 100 health and restore 0.5 energy per second in night form. Permanent while in Night form.

There are some slight problems in here. It is not that the changes are bad, nor overpowered, nor anything. It's that most of the changes in here are completely new things when the originals weren't so fundamentally broken to the point of needing complete substitution.
Indeed, that mentality is the main problem of this entire rework: Substitution instead of fixing. Most reworks are done not by keeping what the frame already is and only alter it as much as to make it good. Yes, sometimes this might lead to completely new playstyles-- Saryn and Mag are great examples of that-- but at the core, the abilities are still very, very similar to what they were originally envisioned as.

Your rework, instead, simply substitutes things. For example: You grant additional Shielding and Armor for Day, and Health and Energy regen for Night. It's not that they are bad ideas, but did the base buffs truly need substitution, or just buffing? Wouldn't making the armor and shielding increase on Night and the speed and damage increase on day be permanent (or at least non-decaying) enough of a change? Day is a glass canon, why are you buffing her survivability instead of mobility?
etc.

This also demonstrates a certain problem with your reworks in general: You don't justify enough. Why did you chose this change instead of other? Why did the power needed changing in the first place? Etc. I understand that you have to prevent wall of texts, but it's better to justify yourself than to just say "THIS MUCH CHANGE TO THAT" and nothing else. Always justify your claims.

Anyway, these are just nitpicks, mostly, since I can understand the implied justification for some of these changes-- and I actually like the innate energy regen for Night, though I find it irrelevant with the reworked pacify you propose. Regardless, let's move on.

19 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Augment: Unchanged

7 seconds. Thats all I have to say.

19 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

2. Rest and Rage:

Night Form: Equinox casts a restful Sleep over all enemies in a 10m Radius (range) for 15 seconds (duration). Loud noise or suffering damage will wake sleeping enemies, and they are open to Finishers. Damage dealt to sleeping enemies adds double the amount to Mend and Maim pool.

Day Form: Emits a blast of concussive energy in a 10m radius (Range). Enemies affected suffer a stagger, and a Puncture Proc for 5 seconds (duration). During this time, they take +50℅ damage. This damage adds double the amount dealt to Mend and Maim pool.

Augment: unchanged.

Short answer: No.
Long answer: Again, your eagerness to substitute instead of fixing-- and doing it something that, even though I find it extremely abusable, doesn't really need the fix-- is shown here.

First, we got the changes to Rest. why? What is the problem of the free casting that it sports now to require substitution? Why such an enormous range? I mean, 10 meters? You basically create a sleep nuke for her first. There is a reason why desicate is a cone: Because nukes are too strong for primary abilities.

Rest used to have half the radius it has now. It wasn't designed has the area CC, it was designed as single/few target denial power. Ence why it's duration is so generous. However, due to the general dissatisfaction with Night Form, DE doubled Its radius. It truly was nothing but the lazy way: Instead of making Pacify and Mend worse something, they simply upped the cheese factor.Your changes further this even more, multiplying the radius by four-- a buff the duration reduction and inability to cast far away from you can compensate for. Simply put, you've upped the cheese factor on a power that truly did not require it. And there are many more problems with its interaction with other powers, but more on that later.

You've also, however, proposed for enemies to wake up with loud noises. There a problem however: There are always loud noises. This means that, instead of creating a balance for rest, you created a power that functions with extremes: Either it is an overpowered sleep nuke (if there is no sound around) or a useless nothing, because enemies instantly wake up (if there is).
Overall, I think you should just scrap all changes to Rest, and just leave it be.

Regarding Rage, though:
the current rage, unlike rest, has serious problems, no doubt.
However, your rework is not great either. Not only it sports the same mechanics your Rest does (mechanics that I already explained why are overpowered), it also has a ridiculously small duration.

In its case, I advise you to let it maintain the current mechanics--cast on reticule, 2.5m range, 20 seconds duration--but add the attributes you gave: Stagger, Puncture Proc, and Damage susceptibility. However, to compensate for the stagger and puncture, also maintain the speed buff.

I enjoy the idea of powers contributing to the pool: More on that later.

19 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

3. Pacify and Provoke - 25, 10 energy/second

Night Form: enemies within 10m (Range) are slowed by 20/40/60℅, and deal 10/25/20℅ less damage for 20 seconds (Duration). 10℅ of damage dealt by these enemies is added to Mend and Maim pool.

Day Form: Power Strength is increased for Equinox and Allies by 10/20/30℅ (Strength) while active, and Equinox gains an additional 50℅ Armor Bonus. Damage dealt while Provoke is active, adds an additional 10℅ to the Mend and Maim pool.

Augment:

Pacify creates an Aura that converts a portion of damage from enemies into healing energy for Equinox and Allies.

Provoke: The aura instead reflects a portion of enemy damage back at its source, as opposed to it being dealt to Tenno.

Effects from one mode continue operating following a Metamorphosis. Using the ability again will renew it's Duration, with the new effect.

(I've boldened what I think is a mistake. I suppose you meant 30%, and I'll treat it as such.)

You've made the unthinkable, and nerfed Pacify&Provoke-- Pacify in particular, which, if we ignore the augment, is one of the worse powers of her kit; and if we don't ignore the augment, it is one of the most hindering.

Let's start with Pacify:

The vanilla pacify sports an amazing amount of problems that make it simply unusable. A mix between its relatively small range, its falloff over distance, its high and unfair energy consumption, and a lack of utility (it's just a damage reduction) make it lackluster at best, and negative for the user and the team at worse (if you run with 40% strength, it actually increases enemy damage). Your rework, however, not only sutituted things that just needed tweaking, but also made matters generally worse.

First of all, your attempt to fix the energy consumption made it even worse. To compare, you've granted it the same consumption powers like Peacemaker and Effigy cost. Not even Hysteria, which grants full blown invincibility, is this expensive. More than this, by making it a channelled ability, you make it susceptible to duration mods, and turn off any form of passive energy regeneration. In short, if it was hard to keep Pacify up before, it will be even harder to do so now.

Than, you do even worse: you reduce its range to almost half-- and it already had range problems-- reduce the damage reduction to values close to the outskirts of the current Pacify (that is, low), and make each enemy to only be affected by the aura for 20 seconds, versus the current permanent. The only positive thing you've added was a slow, which obviously became the main attraction of Pacify (and while a good utility, it is also somewhat cheesie), but honestly, its range and drain and small damage reduction simply don't make up for it. 

And more than that! You gave it the exact same range your reworked Rest has! So, tell me: what is better? A 25 energy, 15 second hard CC that also opens enemies to finishers; or a more expensive, barely longuer, soft CC with neglegible damage reduction that does not open enemies to finishers, and has the same range the other ability? I think you get where I'm going: there are less reasons to use your Pacify when you have your Rest that to use the current Pacify with both the vanilla and your Rest. The fact that your Pacify has that Range is what makes it so: incredibly redundant. 

Again, you've altered too much, and this time, it even became worse. Perhaps you should simply look at what is wrong with the current pacify, and fix it, instead of swapping it?

This is what I'd propose:

• Remove damage reduction falloff
• Increase Range from 16 to 20 meters
• Improve enemy damage multiplier from 50% to 40%
• Add an innate slow effect that has falloff over distance (that functions the same way the current multiplier falloff does), being a base 40% slow effect at the closest to the player, down to 20% at the furthest. 
• Reduce energy cost per enemy to 0.25 e/s. (maybe a bit higher, but with fall-off. say, 0.3 to 0.2)
• When using metamorphosis, Pacify changes to Provoke (and vice-versa), instead of deactivating

To me, this seems a much better improvement. The damage reduction (and the way it scales) is still present, however it is much more effective now: not only it can actually reach relevant values at longuer ranges, it can also reach more enemies. Additionally, the slow effect is present as the utility fraction of the power. However, it is not able to the amount of cheese a current 200% p strength Equinox is able to: It is noticeable, yes, but is less useful the furthest from Equinox, while still being relevant.

Spoiler

Oh, and if you consider that it would be overpowered, well... a 200% strength Equinox would have its pacify reduce enemy damage to 20%, and their speed from 80% to 40% (closest to furthest). It would reduce enemy DPS by up to 96% (if they are at most 5 meters away from her), down to 88% (if they are between 15 and 20 meters away from her). A 130% strength Shatter shield reduces all ranged damage by 95%, and does not cost energy per second. If augmented, it also staggers enemies. And this is ignoring the fact that Range is very, very relevant to Pacify performance, while it is irrelevant to Shatter Shield. Maybe I'm being too proud of myself, but It think this Pacify would be spot on

Ok, now: To Provoke.

The best expression to describe vanilla Provoke is "eh, it's ok". Its cost is hardly a problem, ever, and that means that its small buff is never unwelcomed. However, it is also not very relevant...

The fact is, as I said multiple times before (and I even said it in this threat), Provoke is irrelevant for Equinox, and irrelevant for any team that is nothing short of well coordinated. It requires proximity, when Day Form is all about movement and jumping around and near enemies. and its buff is, while unique and positive, mostly passable: not only it requires 250% strength to reach a measly 50% bonus; the fact that Equinox is such a Range and efficiency-dependent frame means that you will never be running with that much Strength outside of coordinated defense missions-- and most of the time it's simply much more useful to take a better buffer, such as a roar rhino. You can use the augment, to boost it up to 80%, but chances are you'll either be running a build in which provoke gives between 8% and 55% bonus... which trully doesn't matter that much

Your rework does little to improve its condition. Proximity (even more!) is still required, the buff is still measly, and the armor buff you add not only is irrelevant-- 300 armor really isnt that much-- but doesn't even make sense. Day Form is mean to be an offensive-support glass canon. More armor, specially on a power called Provoke, does not make sense.

Not mentioning, of course, the other problems you introduced to Pacify, and that are common to both sides. 

This is what I think Provoke should become:

• Provoke grants a base 30-40% boost to Allied Power Strength-- like as of now, 3 energy is deduced from equinox pool every time an affected ally uses a power.
• **Debatable. Other ideas are welcomed** Provoke grants a  base 50% boost to allied weapon damage. Upon firing/attacking, 3 energy is discounted; however, no energy will be consumed for any attack that ally executes for the next 3 seconds after the activation shot (unaffected by mods). If the player is still attacking after the timer end, a new buff is activated. (the idea is to make the buff cost only when it's used, however measures like this must be taken in order for an Ally with a soma to clean Equinox's energy pool in microseconds)
• Allies that leave the range will keep the buffs for 25 seconds
• Range increased to from 16 to 20 meters

As with pacify, the objective here is to keep the base idea-- which is good-- and to fix what needs to be fixed. The extra range and the lingering of the buffs after an ally leaves serve to compensate the required proximity that is so antithetic to Day Form. Provoke, much like Pacify, is one of the powers that do require a new functionality to be trully worth it; however, unlike Pacify, it does not possess an already obvious choice (the slow) to easy up the rework. That means that, in this particular case, creativity can run a bit wilder. Indeed, I ask for other propositions beyond the one I made (extra weapon damage).

 

To end this part, the Augment:

22 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Augment:

Pacify creates an Aura that converts a portion of damage from enemies into healing energy for Equinox and Allies.

Provoke: The aura instead reflects a portion of enemy damage back at its source, as opposed to it being dealt to Tenno.

Effects from one mode continue operating following a Metamorphosis. Using the ability again will renew it's Duration, with the new effect.

I honestly don't have a particular gripe agaisn't it. If we ignore the fact that your Pacify&Provoke's Range makes the power /and therefore any augment) borderline irrelevant, They are actually pretty good-- though Pacify's half might be stepping a bit atop Mend's toes.

 

Okay, final Power:

22 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

4. Mend and Maim:

Damage pool now carries over between Night and Day modes.

Night Mode: 

Casting once refills 100 health to all Tenno and allies, drained from the pool.

Holding Cast drains the pool, refilling health to all as long as Equinox keeps casting.

Day Mode:

Works the same as now, except enemies still staggered from the initial Bleed effect would suffer Explosion damage as Finisher damage instead of normal types.

Survivors suffer 5 seconds of Radiation damage, with a 50℅ proc chance.

Augment - Shelter and Protect:

Instead of healing, Mend channels energy into a protective dome with a 10m radius and health equal to the damage channeled. Channeling inside the dome renews and stacks it's remaining health.

Instead of dealing damage, Maim sends a surge of energy through Tenno, refilling energy and shields, including over shields, up to a cap. The next ability cast by affected Warframes costs no energy.

Ok, I need some clarifications about this one to be able to give a proper critique:

• Mend no longuer as an activation and deactivation face, correct? It has either tap or hold function, correct?
• Maim still has the activation and deactivation mechanic, correct?

Quite honestly, if your answers are those that I expect, than I trully have no big problems with this rework, specially Mend's. I like the synergy with other powers, in that they help fueling it, and Mend works as a reactive heal with a proactive preparation. In truth, it is as if Mend was always active, but you chose how much healing you want to do. 

The biggest problems I have is with Maim. As other powers, you had functions that trully aren't required, and might even be borderline overpowered. Since you can contribute to the hp pool without activating her ultimate, you can, virtually, annihilate level 200 corrupted heavy gunners if you simply activate and deactivate the power, taking advantage of the finisher damage.

More than that, it's ironic how you propose radiation damage with a 50% proc chance: you were worried that Nyx might step on Equinox toes, but now you are proposing the exact opposite. Personally, I don't think we need another Loki.

 

I believe that is pretty much it, for now. My brain fees melted, anyway, and I don't believe I can give a much better commentary  right now.