Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[Eldritchsqueaker]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Nightseid said:

I don't not like desecrate as an ability because it lacks precision. There is too much RNG involved to be reliable; and the switch it into a toggle makes the ability uncontrollable. At least previously I could decide when to initiate-  if someone complained about me not casting the ability, then they can suck eggs and play as Nekros next time around.

Desecrate needs functionally than being a loot ability - loot should really be a 2nd function. Ivara has sneak (invisibility and looting), hydroid has a t.swarm (mod that allows loot to drop) and mag has pull (attracts loot).

Yes, exactly, this is why I keep saying it seems like half a skill.

3 minutes ago, FatsackTony said:

Maybe they could make desecrate like a corpse explosion.  Where when you desecrate it, along with the small increase in loot/health/energy drops, it does a small aoe blast, gas, or toxin damage, and/or creates a small aoe slow trap like the infested moa's orange floor spit goo stuff.

That could work, or an area buff/debuff for enemies and allies, it'd be unreliable if it just exploded corpses because it'd depend too much on enemies being near them. If it provided bonuses to Nekros and his allies though it'd make him a decent support frame. 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Oh OH i'm sry, i didn't realise we're talking about excals broken O.P. state.

 

Of course there's room for Progression when you measure on something that should not be in the game to begin with.

 

And..Freedom of expression but you have issues with me expressing myself? Go on.

I shall go on ;)

Excal got a rework. It was nice. Did DE go overboard? Maybe. But it was awesome freedom of expression. 

---> focus schools, syndicate weapons, ammo/health/energy/and sheild restores and broken over powered crit focused mod after crit focused mod should not be in the game to begin with.

Warframes were here first. Why should I accept limits made to a frames rework based off of unchecked gear that was added in later?

I have no problem with you expressing your self. Are you referring to your complaining about someone else's complaining which is something forum moderators actively discourage?

[ZiltoidiaAttacks]

19 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

Yes, exactly, this is why I keep saying it seems like half a skill.

That could work, or an area buff/debuff for enemies and allies, it'd be unreliable if it just exploded corpses because it'd depend too much on enemies being near them. If it provided bonuses to Nekros and his allies though it'd make him a decent support frame. 

Maybe it creates a small AOE floor trap, for a duration, using the special effects i mentioned, with groping arms and hands reaching out of the ground in the energy color of your frame.  The floor trap slows and deals DoT cold damage (grave chill), while vampiraclly restoring either life or energy to Nekros, and his Shadow Army (depending on if you're using the augment or not), of any enemy struggling through it.  Thats MUCH more 'necromantic', don't you think?

Edited August 16, 2016 by FatsackTony

[Eldritchsqueaker]

3 minutes ago, FatsackTony said:

Maybe it creates a small AOE floor trap, for a duration, using the special effects i mentioned, with groping arms and hands reaching out of the ground in the energy color of your frame.  The floor trap slows and leeches either life or energy to Nekros, of any enemy struggling through it.

I still think some form of team buff would be good, that still sounds way too situational to me. 

Edited August 16, 2016 by Eldritchkitty

[Wolfnrun]

2 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Just trying to keep things calm.

No one needs warnings. And this thread doesn't need to be locked.

We all generally agree (there's always that one person though) that health decay is wrong. 

We don't know why it was implemented.

The same way I don't know why Saryn lost health in her rework.

Or why volt has energy drain and a timer (sorry for mentioning other frames)

I strongly believe, if De explained their reasoning to us on some level, we could make more informed and reasonable requests.

Right now it feels like someone doesn't think we even deserve that much (banny statement)

But just keep trying. I will post in this thread everyday for the next 5 years until they change it. Because I'm willing to support my community. You guys. Funniest thing about me being here is I havnt even played the new nekros yet, but I have seen what they did to Volt, so it's not hard to get the picture.(and you tube videos)

Fighting no matter what is what I like to hear! It will serve as an example of their... flaws. Synergy is both ridding of "Ult" abilities because people are afraid of dealing lots of damage for an ability that costs lots of energy, that in it's self is a HUGE problem! Also, now when I hear "Rework" I hit the panic button. Though there are those who... submit. We must continue a peaceful rebellion for our beloved necromancer Nekros, and Lord of lightning, volt... I'm reconsidering Nekros prime access, I to will monitor this thread

Edited August 16, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

-snip-

Ain't we all glad mindless rant which Breaks down to DE not fullfilling your personal wishes while completely ignoring the games Balance does not get discouraged by the Community Moderators? One could argue that this game wouldn't have had to undergo endless trial and error but rather actuall Progression if they would. Just immagine what this game could've become if they didn't sacrifice all theyr ressources on endless nerfing and reworking frames but in Gameplay and Content...

 

Anyways, the word you're looking for is hypocrisy. Expecting others to respect your freedom of expression while walkig all over theyrs.

Edited August 16, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Ain't we all glad mindless rant which Breaks down to DE not fullfilling your personal wishes does not get discouraged by the Community Moderators? One could argue that this game wouldn't have had to undergo endless trial and error but rather actuall Progression if they would. Just immagine what this game could've become if they didn't sacrifice all theyr ressources on endless nerfing and reworking but in Gameplay and Content...

 

Anyways, the word you're looking for is hypocrisy. Expexting others to respect your freedom of expression while walkig all over theyrs.

Respecting the veiw points of others--->Its not my rule, I didn't make it. But I fully support it.

Tell me where you feel your freedom of expression was being disrespected (in any area other than wolf's post) and I will honestly apologize, because everyone deserves to have a voice.

If your information is correct, and you know it, or are extremely confident in it, let that do the speaking for you. This is what I believe, and that is the motivation behind all my actions. 

What were you trying to accomplish by undermining Wolf's post? Your trying to keep DE from wasting their time? I think there is evidence they... (banny comment)...mmm.

When you look at this rework, do you not see that DE has done what it is they wanted to do? Its why I made the comparison to Volt. Regardless of what people threaten, who says they arent going to buy prime access, who says they will uninstall the game, DE will do what they want.

They don't need you trying to discourage other people from giving feedback from keeping them on track with their schedule. If they implement a change it is because they decided to do so on their own free will, not because a complaint wasn't silenced and was allowed to slip through a crack.

I was simply trying to stop you from going one step further with the personal attacks everyone likes to employ, but I am not a moderator either. Go ahead, do what you will, the world is yours for the taking.

As for Nekros feedback, what specifically constitutes a "low end" computer and who has had the latency issues DE says are the reason for the sotd souls limit (which is uncannily the same thing as discharges damage cap)~i still think it was a weak noodle excuse to take off some of the heat from the nerf. That's just me. I don't have a pc. Wouldn't know....

Edited August 16, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit. Phone switches i's and o's

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

3 hours ago, Tizodd said:

I'm right there with you.  Whenever I see a new post complaining about the SotD health decay nerf, I make sure to chime in to try and keep the post active.  In hopes that DE eventually takes notice and reverts the awful change.

I have played Nekros since the nerf, and while it is still playable...it just makes absolutely no sense for tanks (they were even given extra aggro) to have a constant bleedout.

DE originally said they'd remove duration, but then they added it back in the form of a bleedout for the sake of "balancing".  Balancing is needed for OP abilities like Bladestorm, or pre-rework Miasma, Peacemaker, etc.  But SotD was never anywhere close to being OP.  It was decent ability that was nerfed TWICE: its cap was reduced to 7; and they're dying from the moment you spawn them.  It seems like it was nerfed just for the sake of nerfing something.

At this point, I'd be happy if they just went back to its original duration.  Tank minions with a constant non-stop bleedout makes no sense.

The health decays is probably so they can't just stick around through defense runs, or something. 

Balance. In the game, with 4 nekros, you can get 28 shadows. Was this what DE was trying to balance around? But with 2 pre reworked nekrosi you could get about 40? With 4 reworked nekrosi's With a limit of 10 shadows instead of 7, you would get 40.

My question is, did DE come up with this limit for the sake of balance based off of the total number of shadows they could expect in a game? (4 nekrosi) or some other thing? 

How is 7 (or 28) the magical number that will support pcs? 

I just wish for answers, and now I'm getting out of my comfort zone, talking about math.....

DE always has cool ideas and then implements them in a way that makes you wonder why they even bothered in the first place. This still slow ability would be perfect for the ivara quiver idea, in my mind, like commands for the shadows that incorporates the health drain, shadows health drain flows into nekros, nekros can perform a finisher prompt(like inaros) on a shadow to drain health, etc

I don't see why nekros couldn't recieve 10 shadows...I'm just a low man on the totem pole.

[Wolfnrun]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

talking about math.....

^^^ Person did the hard work to prove the recent changes are problematic with a bar graph and uh, math  

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

8 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said:

^^^ Person did the hard work to prove the recent changes are problematic with a bar graph and uh, math  

Oooohhhhh.

That's funny. 2 things I understood from reading this post.

It was stated that this was for performance on all platforms, but pc guys say it must be something wrong with consoles, and console guys say it must be something wrong with pc. Neither one is really saying "hey, that was a problem I had, thanks for the fix"

Also, 7 shadows was the the number you got at 100 power strength. Its not a magical number. That's not the limit a low end computer can support. Its just because they decided it was balanced at 100% power strength.

All of these changes really were arbitrary and unnecessary.

 

[WinterishRope]

Was desecrating a body 3 times really realistic?

[F4talFr4me]

Why not just give us 1 summon.. Cthulu.. and let him be as strong as 7 shadows combined with shields armor AND hp. remove duration. give us back a decent timer and call it a day. also.. revert back the old desecrate. you ruined it! if you gonna ruin the loot chance then id rather DJ corpses in a corner, seriously.

[WinterishRope]

Confused about this one though. I feel like he runs more smoothly now as a frame but got nerfed

[Finedaible]

The most saddening aspect of this change is that Atlas is the best summoner now... with only two pawns.

Atlas's Rumblers compared to SotD has: Quicker casting speed, respectable attack damage, high AoE damage upon expiration, long duration without stupid hp decay, 100% aggressiveness and draws a lot of aggro, CC and knockdowns, follows the player, S#&$ton of armor (why don't nekros's shadows get armor?).

Come on, DE. Nekros's SotD is weaksauce compared to any ultimate out there. Especially when they get wiped out by a Comba/Scrambus aura.

[F4talFr4me]

21 minutes ago, WinterishRope said:

Confused about this one though. I feel like he runs more smoothly now as a frame but got nerfed

Its called "quality of life" which they improved allot. but in return they just couldent keep there hands off the "nerf that warframe into oblivion" button like they always do (they call it REWORK). so now we have a smooth frame made useless.

Edited August 16, 2016 by F4talFr4me

[armedpoop]

10 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Because the entire point of having resources in the first place is so that the developers can gate us from new content. It doesn't make sense for them to give us ways to bypass this system. Unless you think 30k Cryotic or 7k Oxium are perfectly reasonable resource costs. 

I worded that very poorly, the point I was trying to get across there was: Why should players have to waste time if they don't have to? I meant that using desecrate using desecrate is much more efficient for gaining large amounts of resources quickly. Im not expecting them to give us stuff for 

 

No those costs arent reasonable, but by the time you get to a point to where you are even able to use those items, you should have plenty of ways of farming the resources you need. You should have more tools by the time you begin your grind for those massive amounts. 

In the case of Sibear, DE already admitted that that was basically a resource sink under the guise of "we want to keep crafting important"

Edited August 16, 2016 by armedpoop

[mindlord0013]

5 hours ago, FatsackTony said:

Maybe they could make desecrate like a corpse explosion.  Where when you desecrate it, along with the small increase in loot/health/energy drops, it does a small aoe blast, gas, or toxin damage, and/or creates a small aoe slow trap like the infested moa's orange floor spit goo stuff.

I actually quite like that idea. Shift the current Despoil effect to be a part of Desecrate by default. It improves his usability and frees up a mod spot. Then rework his Despoil to make desecrated corpses explode with ~200 Gas damage, with a 100% chance for a proc. That Gas damage could be effected by power strength, and be made up of 50% Toxin damage. So each corpse will deal 200 Gas damage, + 50 initial Toxin damage, + 1125 Toxin damage over 8 seconds.

[F4talFr4me]

Problem is, they just nerfed everything.. they dident buff something else to shift the balance to "hey he is not a loot frame! look! he has something else cool now! focus on that instead" but its just a "we fixed somet then broke more things, still a lootbot but now its even worse..but more mobile now!"

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

3 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

-snip-

Did they do what they wanted to do tho? 

I mean the shadows APPARENTLY were changed for Performance issues and me, i wouldn't know eather but desecrate, that one roots 100% in Community Feedback. This whole channeled theme was the most requested Fan concept change for MONTHS. It's similar with Volt, i was among the people which complained about the prior stasis (duration, numbers etc) so i would know: the majority actually liked and Defendet his state (at least untill the Shield Stacking was nerfed) but people did Start complaining so they changed him in a way in which the appearant Player base would aprove: by directly buffing/rebalancing him.

They don't seem to consider anyone at all but they in fact do...way too much.

 

Unconstructive Feedback is, btw, just as much frowned upon and strictly moderated, experience actually showed me that ... basicly discussions? Are quite tollerated as long as they're not uncivilised or Straight rude. So no need to worry about me dear Sir (pretty sure that was even what got me a place in the design Council? Idk) ...like it or not but Volt is a top Tier in his current state what makes....random rant that he was rebalanced rather then fully reworked (into a Laser turret, probably inspired by and executed like in Skyrim? That was the most recent Trend wasn't it?) most definitly destruktive Feedback as it's ignoring and exagerating what he is... i mean damage or not, did excal ever get a LOR Spot?..And dude...One is disrespecting ones Freedom of expression by intervening opression of others. That's a strange Logic but Logic neatherless. And ya know, I'm not physically opressing anyone at the end of the day, what's left is a discussion....

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, Finedaible said:

The most saddening aspect of this change is that Atlas is the best summoner now... with only two pawns.

Atlas's Rumblers compared to SotD has: Quicker casting speed, respectable attack damage, high AoE damage upon expiration, long duration without stupid hp decay, 100% aggressiveness and draws a lot of aggro, CC and knockdowns, follows the player, S#&$ton of armor (why don't nekros's shadows get armor?).

Come on, DE. Nekros's SotD is weaksauce compared to any ultimate out there. Especially when they get wiped out by a Comba/Scrambus aura.

Not in theory, what's most likely the reason for any sort of Nerf...

 

I mean shadows are ENDLESS SCALING ENEMYS UNDER YOUR CONTROLL

We both apparently know that this is worth nothing on the present passive enemy AI but whoever decided this most likely did not...

 

Rumbler AI (melee AI?) or a assisting AI (Basicly shadows mimicing your Moves...You move, they move. You shoot, they IMMEDIATLY Pick targets in your Direction ... would probably work better with guns as well) would make them amazing...

Hell they could even reduce theyr quanitity further (to like 5, ideally following you in a Pentagram formation xD), wouldn't matter as long as theyr efficiency is on Spot...what it just isn't...

 

Since we're at melee AI: how would disarmed shadows Sound? Theyr battons are quite strong (they could also be replaced with something more grim...claws for example?) And this change would solve quite a bit of theyr issues...

 

They would also be forced into the line of Fire...what's basicly enough reason to remove the life Decay right?!

Edited August 17, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[xRufus7x]

8 hours ago, F4talFr4me said:

Why should he Edit the truth? they ARE liers. you say one thing and do another. thats a lie.

It's not a lie if when they lead with "everything you are about to see is subject to change"

[F4talFr4me]

I dident see it. i HEARD it. :P

[Eldritchsqueaker]

8 hours ago, F4talFr4me said:

Why should he Edit the truth? they ARE liers. you say one thing and do another. thats a lie.

Getting heated only hurts the message you want to get across. Be reasonable but persistent in pushing for the change you want instead of getting angry and devbashing and it will help a lot more. I don't like the current version of Nekros any more than you do but I know getting angry about it solves nothing.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Did they do what they wanted to do tho? 

I mean the shadows APPARENTLY were changed for Performance issues and me, i wouldn't know eather but desecrate, that one roots 100% in Community Feedback. This whole channeled theme was the most requested Fan concept change for MONTHS. It's similar with Volt, i was among the people which complained about the prior stasis (duration, numbers etc) so i would know: the majority actually liked and Defendet his state (at least untill the Shield Stacking was nerfed) but people did Start complaining so they changed him in a way in which the appearant Player base would aprove: by directly buffing/rebalancing him.

They don't seem to consider anyone at all but they in fact do...way too much.

 

Unconstructive Feedback is, btw, just as much frowned upon and strictly moderated, experience actually showed me that ... basicly discussions? Are quite tollerated as long as they're not uncivilised or Straight rude. So no need to worry about me dear Sir (pretty sure that was even what got me a place in the design Council? Idk) ...like it or not but Volt is a top Tier in his current state what makes....random rant that he was rebalanced rather then fully reworked (into a Laser turret, probably inspired by and executed like in Skyrim? That was the most recent Trend wasn't it?) most definitly destruktive Feedback as it's ignoring and exagerating what he is... i mean damage or not, did excal ever get a LOR Spot?..And dude...One is disrespecting ones Freedom of expression by intervening opression of others. That's a strange Logic but Logic neatherless. And ya know, I'm not physically opressing anyone at the end of the day, what's left is a discussion....

 

Hhhmmm

Desecrate was suggested to be toggle drain....but DE messed it up and nerfed it....and you blame the forums....reasonable.

I was following you until 3 things.

1) Did you really just throw around a "big" title, as if that was supposed to mean something? You being rude right now or any time is not excusable by any title you may think holds any importance.

2) You are openly admitting to having the intention of opressing some elses voice, and trying to explain it away by saying it's not physical. Cyber attacks are not excusable. Again, it is a rule of the forums. The fact that you can write off someone else's feed back as unconstructive, simply because they did not give in to your demands to give a suggestion, is disturbing. But what's worse is, you are trying to justify it.

3) Excalibur didn't have a reliable spot in Lor because mirages prism was better than his radial (bland) blind attack. People want enemies stunned, not moving, for an entire mission, because that gets results. Volt can do this now. Like was said before, you are free to like him, but stop thinking you have any right to look down on someone else just because they feel differently. And yes, your veiws on how freedom of speech works is extremely misguided.

Your freedom will be respected until you try to take away another persons freedom. Then yours doesn't matter either. That's the way the forums works as well. You know how it goes, so you should also know if this keeps going on here, we might get locked. You are free to pm me with what ever you feel you need to talk about. 

 

 

[Matt89Connor]

7 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

^^^ Person did the hard work to prove the recent changes are problematic with a bar graph and uh, math  

good info and topic thnks