Clan Hopping For Blueprints.

[Hixlysss]

So, at least one member of my clan has hopped from my clan to another clan for the sole purpose of getting blueprints from that clan. Then he left the clan and by some fluke managed to rejoin us. Personally, I find this a big spit in the face to not only the clan he joined and left, but to my clan as well.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but personally I hate seeing clan members do this. We are working on building the labs for our own clan members to use but instead of even attempting to help they simply leave and join another clan and just buy the blueprints they want, then they leave that clan and join back up with the original clan. Knowing that someone does this upsets me because we are a small clan and we welcome potential members with open arms into our little family so to speak. The fact that someone would join a clan just to get blueprints and then leave is...insulting but more so when a member of your clan leaves to join another simply to get the blueprints.

 

So we were thinking of ways of at least limiting the potential for this and they came up with a "Clan Reputation" system, meaning a player would have to have X reputation to purchase the blueprints or do what ever. Players would get reputation, at least starting out, by simply playing with a clan member. Surely more features can be built from this and potentially it can be managed by the warlord of the clan as to how much reputation is needed for X thing, such as even contributing resources to the clan or what have you.

 

It wouldn't stop them, but it would discourage them to be sure. On top of that, I encourage clans to be on the lookout for these kinds of people.

[Zhoyzu]

i agree with you except that reputation system. personally if i was the leader and someone did that id ban them. i found this whole dojo thing more destructive then it was good for warframe. all the small clans that stuck it out are awesome. but i feel like as soon as update 8 hit it was just a race for the new content. people were willy nilly joining clans and basically just abandoning friends just to get the new content faster.  Even DE is upset by this. they wanted clans and community to be a big part of the game but they accidentally created a rift that is so large the effects will be felt for a long time.

[Spat80Lad]

I agree that it sucks and step should be taken to stop this. Definitely wouldn't let that fly in the clan i am part of. Also a small clan, waiting for the dojo system to be fixed before we even try and start building our dojo. Lucky we are all close friends and havent had a problem with people clan hoping.

[Hixlysss]

i agree with you except that reputation system. personally if i was the leader and someone did that id ban them. i found this whole dojo thing more destructive then it was good for warframe. all the small clans that stuck it out are awesome. but i feel like as soon as update 8 hit it was just a race for the new content. people were willy nilly joining clans and basically just abandoning friends just to get the new content faster.  Even DE is upset by this. they wanted clans and community to be a big part of the game but they accidentally created a rift that is so large the effects will be felt for a long time.

That is how I felt. Honestly seeing someone do that makes you realize just how little they care for the community, not just yours but others as well. But, seeing as how you dislike the reputation system, how would you solve the problem? My idea was a "Must be in clan X number of days" but it seems too...cliche. I kind of like the reputation system but I don't have any idea's on how to actually build reputation in a clan.

[SwordAxeMace]

All my clan members left, what can I say, they wanted the new content that I couldn't provide

[LongDraw]

That is how I felt. Honestly seeing someone do that makes you realize just how little they care for the community, not just yours but others as well. But, seeing as how you dislike the reputation system, how would you solve the problem? My idea was a "Must be in clan X number of days" but it seems too...cliche. I kind of like the reputation system but I don't have any idea's on how to actually build reputation in a clan.

I actually think the reputation system idea has merit.  A clan member could raise his reputation by doing various things like being in the clan for X number of continuous days, joining/being joined by another clan member on a mission, contributing resources toward dojo construction, etc.

[Hixlysss]

I actually think the reputation system idea has merit.  A clan member could raise his reputation by doing various things like being in the clan for X number of continuous days, joining/being joined by another clan member on a mission, contributing resources toward dojo construction, etc.

Yeah, i mean I see contribution being the big reputation grower. It's not going to stop the whole clan hopping for blueprints, but at least some people will think twice before having to put in some effort to get the blueprints, then trying to join up on another clan later. Perhaps we can make a list of these known or suspected "Dojo Blueprint Farmers" or what ever to call them so clans know who to not let into their clan?

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

All my clan members left, what can I say, they wanted the new content that I couldn't provide

 

Bah, weaklings!

 

But yeah, when the news of the update hit, I actually told my few clan members that I wouldn't be in the least upset if they left for one of the major clans because I knew they'd leave eventually. The combined reply warmed my heart though: "if we can't get it in this dojo, we'll just go without" And yes, we still don't have those weapons and yes, we're still happily playing the game :D

Edited June 25, 2013 by Hap-muhr

[LongDraw]

Yeah, i mean I see contribution being the big reputation grower. It's not going to stop the whole clan hopping for blueprints, but at least some people will think twice before having to put in some effort to get the blueprints, then trying to join up on another clan later. Perhaps we can make a list of these known or suspected "Dojo Blueprint Farmers" or what ever to call them so clans know who to not let into their clan?

Well, what I have learned in all the games I've alpha and beta tested is that often the most effective way to get a player to stop an undesired habit is to provide rewards to them that discourage them from continuing their undesired habit(s).  So you put in a reputation system for clans (basically a Tenno Loyalty Meter).

 

Lets say a player joins a clan.  They immediately get +1 reputation points for joining.  Then they use the clan chat, so they get another +1 for the first time use.  Then they complete their clan key and get another +1.  Then they enter the dojo and get another +1 the first time for visiting.  Then lets say they go to the weapon blueprint station thinking they'll just grab one real quick, but wait, the blueprint station says that they need a minimum of lets say 100 reputation for the first weapon.  Okay, well, that's not horrible because they've already gotten 4 reputation points just for checking out the weapon blueprints and talking in clan chat.

 

So how do they gain more, well, the system tells them that they can gain more reputation points by either contributing to current construction projects or by completing missions (larger reputation gains when with other clan members in same mission).  So lets say they are the type of person that previously clan hopped to get blueprints.  Well, they probably won't just donate to current construction, but they just might be willing to allow the system to tax their drops from missions since they can play the game while working towards getting the blueprints they want.

[Hixlysss]

Maybe I'm just sentimental or something, but I just hate seeing this happening to clans. The whole point, in my opinion, is that the research is a sort of reward for you and your clan working together to do something. And then someone can just join your clan for 30 minutes, grab the blueprints for all they need, and then they just leave.

 

I would like to see other clans supporting this idea, or at least commenting on it. Preferably I would like to see the Dev's do something to fix this, but I'd honestly feel better knowing that Clans are active in countering this abuse.

[VER1]

As long as there is no repercussion for joining, taking then leaving, people are going to do it.

 

I find the majority of today's generation are impatient and have an obsession with competing in every way possible rather than to work together as a team.

this includes having the latest and the greatest things as soon as possible before other people to feel better than them.

 

Working as a team for the long haul and the feeling of achievement when the goal is finally completed is no longer reasonable.

 

I had three younger players in my clan 13-15.

All of them had either suggested or demanded that I recruit as many people as possible in hopes of the clan dojo being completed quicker for them.

So they could get the weapons quicker.

 

The irony is these players donate very little to the dojo and spend a lot of materials on themselves.

So they are ranked appropriately and made sure they know the options if they want the weapons fast.

[Hixlysss]

As long as there is no repercussion for joining, taking then leaving, people are going to do it.

 

I find the majority of today's generation are impatient and have an obsession with competing in every way possible rather than to work together as a team.

this includes having the latest and the greatest things as soon as possible before other people to feel better than them.

 

Working as a team for the long haul and the feeling of achievement when the goal is finally completed is no longer reasonable.

 

I had three younger players in my clan 13-15.

All of them had either suggested or demanded that I recruit as many people as possible in hopes of the clan dojo being completed quicker for them.

So they could get the weapons quicker.

 

The irony is these players donate very little to the dojo and spend a lot of materials on themselves.

So they are ranked appropriately and made sure they know the options if they want the weapons fast.

Exactly, but I'd rather it be a challenge for them to actually get the blueprints. With a reputation system that locks lower reputation players from the blueprints, players would have to actually build a reputation with the clan to get to the blueprints, thus having to spend time with then and such. This would, at the very least, highly HIGHLY discourage people to attempt clan hopping. "I'll just leave and join back with blueprints!" They would lose their reputation and have to do it all over again with the original clan if they even let them back in.

[LongDraw]

Lets say a player joins a clan.  They immediately get +1 reputation points for joining.  Then they use the clan chat, so they get another +1 for the first time use.  Then they complete their clan key and get another +1.  Then they enter the dojo and get another +1 the first time for visiting.  Then lets say they go to the weapon blueprint station thinking they'll just grab one real quick, but wait, the blueprint station says that they need a minimum of lets say 100 reputation for the first weapon.  Okay, well, that's not horrible because they've already gotten 4 reputation points just for checking out the weapon blueprints and talking in clan chat.

 

So how do they gain more, well, the system tells them that they can gain more reputation points by either contributing to current construction projects or by completing missions (larger reputation gains when with other clan members in same mission).  So lets say they are the type of person that previously clan hopped to get blueprints.  Well, they probably won't just donate to current construction, but they just might be willing to allow the system to tax their drops from missions since they can play the game while working towards getting the blueprints they want.

Okay, so what does everyone think of my take on the idea of reputation system in clans?

[Zhoyzu]

That is how I felt. Honestly seeing someone do that makes you realize just how little they care for the community, not just yours but others as well. But, seeing as how you dislike the reputation system, how would you solve the problem? My idea was a "Must be in clan X number of days" but it seems too...cliche. I kind of like the reputation system but I don't have any idea's on how to actually build reputation in a clan.

I was in one clan that had an application system of a "try it before you buy it". the application process was apply wait to be accepted (could not join in clan with out applying and be accepted it was private to reduce exterior trolling). then for the next month you were a "trial" member where your permissions were severely limited but you got to do everything with the clan and were treated normally so you could see if you liked the community and clan. if not no harm no foul you can leave.  At the end of the month of trial you are forced to become a full member or will be swept. (wasnt as strict as it sounds).

 

that system prevented alot of people from joining who only wanted one thing for themselves and weren't going to be a benefit to the clan.  both application periods grew on each other to help weed out people the clan disliked or would not be a good addition. it was rare people would be declined (esp at stage two) but it did happen from time to time.

[ReMix-]

The reputation system wont do any good people just wont join small clans and go for the big ones and rank up their reputation their instead of wasting their time with small clans that would take weeks to have the same material as big clans most people in this game just want to be in big clans so they can not use their resources on dojos and use them for the bps. Just only invite people you actually enjoy playing with not a bunch of strangers that you never talk to so its fun and you wont have any reason to complain.

[DAwGi]

I see no issue with Clan Hopping.  It's a game, stop being butt-hurt that someone found fast way to do something in a game.

[Zhoyzu]

I see no issue with Clan Hopping.  It's a game, stop being butt-hurt that someone found fast way to do something in a game.

then you're blind.

 

how would you like it if every time you had a guest over all they did was raid everything in your fridge and pantry then bail without even acknowledging your presence leaving you trying to figure out how the F*** you are going to be able to afford to replace all that food they took. what if that same guest also treated your house as an outhouse, except they just took a squat where ever they felt like it without the decency to use your bathroom or clean it up. how many time would you invite this guest over? since you see no issue with this behavior, perhaps your answer is as many times as they want to.

 

yea sure its a game but its the principle of the matter. everyone on the internet is a person in real life. the only thing you gain by shoving off these issues is a degrading society where people care less about other people. 

[ReMix-]

You dont lose anything when they take a bp its not like you have to research it all over again so its basically like a guest coming to your house to take food from an infinitely self supplying fridge.

[Jallenocere]

Maybe I'm just sentimental or something, but I just hate seeing this happening to clans. The whole point, in my opinion, is that the research is a sort of reward for you and your clan working together to do something. And then someone can just join your clan for 30 minutes, grab the blueprints for all they need, and then they just leave.

 

I would like to see other clans supporting this idea, or at least commenting on it. Preferably I would like to see the Dev's do something to fix this, but I'd honestly feel better knowing that Clans are active in countering this abuse.

You arent just be sentimental, you're being rational. I just talked to 3 like minded people in less then THIRTY minutes in the menus. All of the didnt give a **** about clan and just wanted the BPs. If anything I can a SERIOUSLY strict rep system, you have to be there so long (week +) and to contribute so much, go on mission with clannies ALOT, and not be able to use BPs or the Weapons unless you're in a clan that has labs.

 

You dont lose anything when they take a bp its not like you have to research it all over again so its basically like a guest coming to your house to take food from an infinitely self supplying fridge.

Seriously an infinite fridge. For one joining a clan just for the BP is lazy and they shouldnt even get in the first place is the WHOLE POINT OF THE BLOODY THING IS TEAMWORK AND HARD EFFORT! Second is extremely degrading for both the clan and the player (if SAID player had any dignity left to begin with.) BPs should not be a selling point for a clans, labs should not be a selling point it should be a REWARD FOR EFFORT AND AN ACTUAL SENSE OF COMMUNITY!

[Hixlysss]

The reputation system wont do any good people just wont join small clans and go for the big ones and rank up their reputation their instead of wasting their time with small clans that would take weeks to have the same material as big clans most people in this game just want to be in big clans so they can not use their resources on dojos and use them for the bps. Just only invite people you actually enjoy playing with not a bunch of strangers that you never talk to so its fun and you wont have any reason to complain.

If people want to join the big clans just for the BP, let them do that. People who want to join the small clans, for the sense of community and family, will do so.

 

You dont lose anything when they take a bp its not like you have to research it all over again so its basically like a guest coming to your house to take food from an infinitely self supplying fridge.

You are missing the point. Lets say you have lots of games and movies on your PC you purchased. You worked hard to get the money for those games, and then lets say someone comes over to hang out, they get on your PC and copy over your games and movies with out asking you, then they just leave. Wouldn't you be pissed?

 

I see no issue with Clan Hopping.  It's a game, stop being butt-hurt that someone found fast way to do something in a game.

Uh huh, and I suspect you also fully believe in piracy huh? Probably haven't actually purchased a game since you found out about torrents? I'm no saint, but if I find a game I like, I'll actually BUY it. And it isn't Clan Hopping itself, its Clan Hopping with the soul purpose of getting the blueprints.

[TheFlyingKnight]

If people want to join the big clans just for the BP, let them do that. People who want to join the small clans, for the sense of community and family, will do so.

 

You are missing the point. Lets say you have lots of games and movies on your PC you purchased. You worked hard to get the money for those games, and then lets say someone comes over to hang out, they get on your PC and copy over your games and movies with out asking you, then they just leave. Wouldn't you be &!$$ed?

 

Uh huh, and I suspect you also fully believe in piracy huh? Probably haven't actually purchased a game since you found out about torrents? I'm no saint, but if I find a game I like, I'll actually BUY it. And it isn't Clan Hopping itself, its Clan Hopping with the soul purpose of getting the blueprints.

 

So if I copy your car where you have worked hard for, you would find this immoral? Also the user never said anything about copying and piracy, you are attributing your preconceptions where there are none necessarily.

I went the other way, I was in a big clan when the dojo release came out, bought a few blueprints and then looked for a smaller clan and currently helping them building the dojo. Only reason I left is because I wanted a tighter community. Am I also immoral now?

Edited June 26, 2013 by TheFlyingKnight

[Hixlysss]

So if I copy your car where you have worked hard for, you would find this immoral? Also the user never said anything about copying and piracy, you are attributing your preconceptions where there are none necessarily.

I went the other way, I was in a big clan when the dojo release came out, bought a few blueprints and then looked for a smaller clan and currently helping them building the dojo. Only reason I left is because I wanted a tighter community. Am I also immoral now?

More or less, if you copy my car that I worked my &#! off to get with out asking me or even perhaps some compensation, yeah I would find it immoral. And I will admit, I did assume a lot about that guy.

 

As for the second part, no, because you were in the clan, got blueprints, didn't like it there and then left. I'm walking about specifically joining a clan JUST to get blueprints and then doing NOTHING to help that clan at all. Leeching off of their hard work.

[LongDraw]

I see no issue with Clan Hopping.  It's a game, stop being butt-hurt that someone found fast way to do something in a game.

Faster eh?  Just seems to be an exploit in the eyes of most of the posters in this thread.  If someone starts a thread asking the developers to institute the reputation system or to make it so that blue prints have to be purchased for like 100,000 credits from the labs, then I'll reply showing my approval with *signed*.

[X3Evanescence]

I see no issue with Clan Hopping.  It's a game, stop being butt-hurt that someone found fast way to do something in a game.

Omigosh, I have never seen such a rude, disrespectful and downright shameless brat who does not care for others posting such an asinine and insulting comment before! Do you not realize that our fellow Tenno Clan Masters are also human too?

By saying this, you have just shown everyone how much of a person you are. Loser. You disgust me and do not deserve any respect. I absolutely detest seeing my fellow Tenno getting insulted by ignorant people. Do you seriously have any respect for the clan masters at all? They willingly take you on with open arms, yet you just loot whatever's important for your own selfish ambitions and leave them for dead?

Heartless. Clan masters around who see this post, remember the IGN of this daring person. Let him be an example of how the Warframe community is being increasingly polluted with this kind of shameless players. You know what's the best part? The clan masters are unable to get any justice on these people, other than banning them from their clan. This is infuriating, but I will cease to say any more. No matter how bad people can be, I cannot be hostile.

[happyfunba11]

It's in most people's nature to take the quickest route to get what they want. I don't think they should be vilified for it. It's a shortsighted thing to do, but it's their decision. They may not like the idea of sticking around for a few more weeks, just waiting for the resource change, then waiting a few more weeks before the dojo is built and the research done. They have to work around a flawed system if they want to play with people they like and have the weapons, too.

 

Awful judgmental of some of you to want them banned and marked for life.