Glaive's Need Some Love and Sharpening

[-Maki-]

Well... I have noticed this for quite a long while, but I want to be able to use my Glaive prime again without it being so detrimented by its own stats, I found that Halikar and Cerata can out perform Glaive prime. As fun as the glaive's are, I think they honestly need to be looked at stat wise and see what can be done to make them more of a choice, rather than a throwing weapon that cannot perform the job compared to any other weapon, even the Deconstructor for Helios is underwhelming in terms of power in some way. As far as ranged melee weapons go, the majority of whip weapons do a better job stat wise than a glaive prime. Honestly, any little bit to make the glaive's more worth it to use again, would be dandy, I have a lot of fun just throwing it around and watching it bounce all over the room, and killing someone from a distance with it. But if I have to be a stealthed loki to make it do enough damage on mid tier to late game planets, there is something wrong in my eyes because I can make many other melee weapons powerful enough to be at such a build I can just slaughter everything in my path, but I cannot do the same for any of the glaives except for the Cerata in terms of a powerful and actually benefiting build in close quarters combat. I'm at the point where I have the majority, or almost all of the mods in warframe at this point from being with the game since update 10 was introduced. At this point I'm exactly like this with weapons "If I can't make a proper build for it, it ain't worth it." and it just becomes Mastery fodder.

[(PSN)x_RaiLight_x]

I feel like in order to make Glaives attractive ("again") DE will be forced to nerf everything else in order to achieve that, and that's a big no no. But while they're at it, why not buff machetes as well? Y'know, with all these powercreep weapons we have these days why not destroy the game balancing once and for all? amirite?

[RenownedWheat42]

1 minute ago, (PS4)x_RaiLight_x said:

I feel like in order to make Glaives attractive ("again") DE will be forced to nerf everything else in order to achieve that, and that's a big no no. But while they're at it, why not buff machetes as well? Y'know, with all these powercreep weapons we have these days why not destroy the game balancing once and for all? amirite?

Why "nerf everything" when buffs are a thing? Buffing two weapons/weapon types =/= destroying game balance.

[(PSN)x_RaiLight_x]

2 minutes ago, RenownedWheat42 said:

Why "nerf everything" when buffs are a thing? Buffing two weapons/weapon types =/= destroying game balance.

So you're telling me that by just simply buffing a Glaive I would have reasons to use it instead of, let's say, a brand new Galatine Prime? Even the OP have admitted that whips outclassed Glaives. What I mean with this is... what's your point? what were you trying to achieve?

[RenownedWheat42]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)x_RaiLight_x said:

So you're telling me that by just simply buffing a Glaive I would have reasons to use it instead of, let's say, a brand new Galatine Prime? Even the OP have admitted that whips outclassed Glaives. What I mean with this is... what's your point? what were you trying to achieve?

I have the same exact question for you. Glaives are in obvious need of a buff, as OP also stated, and your response was basically about how it'll destroy game balance.

Even with Galatine Prime (Which I love) I still use plenty of other weapons. Getting Glaives up to par isn't a bad thing. I don't see how it ever could be.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

They do need some love. They are my favorite weapons, but just don't cut it stat wise (which is a shame seeing as how different they are from other melees). I feel the same way about the redeemer.

[at35z]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)x_RaiLight_x said:

So you're telling me that by just simply buffing a Glaive I would have reasons to use it instead of, let's say, a brand new Galatine Prime? Even the OP have admitted that whips outclassed Glaives. What I mean with this is... what's your point? what were you trying to achieve?

For the love of everything holy, please, not this again.

No, they don't have to be stronger than a Galatine Prime, and they don't have to be stronger than a War to be used more frequently either.

Glaives simply need to be tweaked again, since Melee 2.0 and other updates kind of ruined them. Throwing them is not convenient, stances are weird, etc. Damage is just one thing, but with throwing melees, that's more difficult as well. How to mod? What to mod? Which one makes the thrown damage better?

Also, there could be other really great functions added, similar to Dark Sector Glaive. Picking up stuff, etc. 

[(PSN)x_RaiLight_x]

7 minutes ago, RenownedWheat42 said:

I have the same exact question for you. Glaives are in obvious need of a buff, as OP also stated, and your response was basically about how it'll destroy game balance

Then you didn't understand my response.

7 minutes ago, RenownedWheat42 said:

Getting Glaives up to par isn't a bad thing. I don't see how it ever could be

Neither can I. Care to explain?

3 minutes ago, at35z said:

For the love of everything holy, please, not this again.

This wasn't needed at all. How very unpolite of you.

5 minutes ago, at35z said:

No, they don't have to be stronger than a Galatine Prime, and they don't have to be stronger than a War to be used more frequently either. Glaives simply need to be tweaked again.

I agree.

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by (PS4)x_RaiLight_x
Added at's post since I didn't even notice his post.

[Xekrin]

I dunno about stats or damage but I would love it if they finally got around to fixing the charged attack.  IE, the swipe before it is thrown is soooo annoying and time consuming.  Especially when attempting to throw it precisely at any distance at all, which is kind of the entire point of having a throwing weapon.

More on topic though I think it would be great if each weapon had a certain niche or uniqueness that allowed it to fill a role or fit a build, rather than every weapon coming out basically doing the same thing as the previous only better and better each time (ie cerata became the new glaive).  Instead of taking a weapon type, buffing it and giving it a new look, each one should perform in a slightly different but obvious way.

This rather limits the developers sort of though, as there are only so many options, but if the options chosen are good ones, I doubt anyone would complain about a limited quantity of any particular weapon type.

[Ceryk]

Throwing melee weapons really need to have their damage boosted and gain proper homing capabilities to get them to something resembling usable.

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Ceryk

[Stoner]

One of the things id like to see is more glaive mods. Right now we only have 2 or 3 that are "usable". They could add something like +damage, crits or status on throwing attacks, guaranteed chance of cutting the enemies in half.. lol 

Buffs would sure be welcome but i think they need more than just stat increase.

[(PSN)x_RaiLight_x]

1 minute ago, Stoner74 said:

One of the things id like to see is more glaive mods. Right now we only have 2 or 3 that are "usable". They could add something like +damage, crits or status on throwing attacks, guaranteed chance of cutting the enemies in half.. lol 

Buffs would sure be welcome but i think they need more than just stat increase.

Do you mean something like Covert Lethality? I kinda like your idea, and I also like Xekrin's concept of certain weapons having unique aspects, but I find that quite hard to implement.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

4 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

One of the things id like to see is more glaive mods. Right now we only have 2 or 3 that are "usable". They could add something like +damage, crits or status on throwing attacks, guaranteed chance of cutting the enemies in half.. lol 

Buffs would sure be welcome but i think they need more than just stat increase.

A guaranteed status proc on a throw hit would be interesting.

[Desperado14]

How and where to buff though?  What actually needs changed on the glaive weapons?  The fact of the matter is that If you are looking at single target dps or otherwise known as "on paper", all glaive weapons are weak.  But with Astral twilight for a stance, how many enemies are you hitting?  Probably more than with your nikana prime (especially if blind justice is being used).  How many enemies you are hitting counts for dps too, just like punch-through.  

However, I think there are two things that need buffed on glaive weapons.  Number one, the explode attack needs to do more damage.  At mid to high levels it does pretty much no good to explode the weapon.  

The second thing isn't really a buff, but I think it will help glaive weapons be used more.  I think Astral Twilight needs to be more common, like maybe on the lines of tranquil cleave or something.  This will help break up the meta and "throw" glaive weapons into the mix.    

[DSpite]

I don't want "extra damage", I just want it to work. I want an actual throwing weapon that is an efficient thrown weapon.

The delay (attack then throw) in throwing has to go. The screen shake on throwing has to go. It has to stop being thrown from the "left" because you could be aiming over 2 meters to the right of a wall that is 10 meters in front of you and it will still clip that wall, even though the aim point has clear LoS. It has to stop "homing" because "homing" right now means "not go towards what I am actually aiming at, and clipping something else instead, then flying in a totally wrong direction, leaving me weaponless".

The returning speed has to be made instant, not a "fly back", instant. just a straight bright line back to the hand, so you can throw it again. It has to stop clipping things that are 1 pixel across, like the top of ears on a Kubrow, or at least generate "punch-through" on friendly targets or an infinite, small amount of PT like 0.1 to ignore all the niggly things it seems to snag onto all the time.

Flight speed effected by attack speed would be nice. Ability to try and "bounce" only within a small cone of where you are actually aiming at would be nice.

Adding something to the blast when making a channeled throw might help scale it up a bit more at the cost of using extra energy (at the moment, you normal-throw, press channeling button and it explodes, so you could hold channeling, throw and make a channeling explosion on channeling-release.

On exploding, higher damage at the center point but lower damage at explosion edge might help scale higher via accuracy, and balance it out a bit more vs large groups of enemies at lower levels.

A new Stance dedicated to just throwing might help "fix" the thrown issues it has without making mechanical changes overall as well.

Self Damage from explosions has to go down, purely from how stupid the bounces are and how hard is it to track where it is in a room full of things happening, and the fact that you can't just explode "whenever", it has to be done BEFORE it starts coming back, which means limited window of explosion use. At least Penta nades can be kept active and exploded after a look around.

Throw distance of 30m is asinine, once you start actually using a Glaive. Even in boomerang competitions, people throw and return at around 50 meters, yet my Void Powered Orokin made Glaive Prime flies worse then a $5 plastic freebee.

... ok then. Rant over.