Simulor Nerf/ Buffs for under used weapons. Pls DE

[Kepsiis]

2 minutes ago, Naftal said:

Well Tonkor should have self damage too.

This is arguably true. But this would imbalance the most weapons used because everybody would use a Soma or boltor etc.

[Naftal]

Just now, Kepsiis said:

This is arguably true. But this would imbalance the most weapons used because everybody would use a Soma or boltor etc.

That would be better than everyone using stronger weapons that deal aoe damage and don't have any risks added into them.

[p3z1]

1 minute ago, Kepsiis said:

What did I change my take on?

MR Exists because:

1. Weapons need MR Locks, a brand new player shouldn't be able to be a wallet warrior and get a soma prime galatine prime etc straight away.
2. Its a example to show how far you've got, which I think is kinda stupid.

I said the reason Draco was used was mostly to level weapons for MR For people trying to climb, that or forma. 

The REASON Draco was used to Level XP is because most weapons in the game are useless and nobody wants to grind the levels up to 30 for something that shoots peas.

What did I go back on?

First you stated weapons should reach lv 30-40, then I listed down weapons. You then backtracked to level 20-30. This is what you gone back on.

Draco is a problem of not having enough XP gains from other missions. Stealth is broken due to delayed spawning and random enemies killing the counter. Spy is slow, and doesn't give that much XP as well.

And yes, from your replies, it seems you really want to make more than 50% of the weapons lv30-40 viable, which is a bad idea.

[Kepsiis]

+1

[--Q--Kyl0Ren]

yeah all the new peeps who joined use gun once against lvl 10 enemies be like....oooo too OP nerf this nerf that....but the major problem in the game is enemy scaling....rework weapons later( try simulor against lvl 300 enemies =.=)....and also why is no one talking about important stuff at all ever in forums and even if someone did their post doesnt get the attention it deserves...all the salt is unbearable. Warframe is in a major content drought(please learn what this first means before giving more salt), the devs really need to fix that and by the way things are moving along well....war within better blows our minds off else RIP player base( yeah the stats tell the story ...see the decrease in players) . But do people talk about this? or have a healthy discussion and brain storm ideas? NOoooooo. OP please enlighten me as to what end game there is ...seems pointless to forma weapons or anything cuz u can just breeze through any mission ( sorties are difficult? not really 2ez .....raids maybe? well meh its ez as well.. if you have a team that knows what theyr doing). Moreover, no endless void missions for prime parts, the end game in this is game is just fashion frame =.= .

Edited September 12, 2016 by --Q--Kyl0Ren

[Kepsiis]

2 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

First you stated weapons should reach lv 30-40, then I listed down weapons. You then backtracked to level 20-30. This is what you gone back on.

Draco is a problem of not having enough XP gains from other missions. Stealth is broken due to delayed spawning and random enemies killing the counter. Spy is slow, and doesn't give that much XP as well.

And yes, from your replies, it seems you really want to make more than 50% of the weapons lv30-40 viable, which is a bad idea.

Yes I did say that. 20-30 is without damage fall off. 30-40  Is where you really start to see it.

Why would it be a bad idea? "End game" Is roughly first sortie level and above. More on the latter. 

[-CCC-Secret]

11 minutes ago, Naftal said:

Well Tonkor should have self damage too.

So you don't want people to use launchers? Why not remove the weapon class from the game entirely?

[Kepsiis]

2 minutes ago, --Q--Kyl0Ren said:

yeah all the new peeps who joined use gun once against lvl 10 enemies be like....oooo too OP nerf this nerf that....but the major problem in the game is enemy scaling....rework weapons later( try simulor against lvl 300 enemies =.=)....and also why is no one talking about important stuff at all ever in forums and even if someone did their post doesnt get the attention it deserves...all the salt is unbearable. Warframe is in a major content drought(please learn what this first means before giving more salt), the devs really need to fix that and by the way things are moving along well....war within better blows our minds off else RIP player base( yeah the stats tell the story ...see the decrease in players) . But do people talk about this? or have a healthy discussion and brain storm ideas? NOoooooo. OP please enlighten me as to what end game there is ...seems pointless to forma weapons or anything cuz u can just breeze through any mission ( sorties are difficult? not really 2ez .....raids maybe? well meh its ez as well.. if you have a team that knows what theyr doing). Moreover, no endless void missions for prime parts, the end game in this is game is just fashion frame =.= .

Ever since the relic update and no more T4 Survival there is no endgame.

[Naftal]

Just now, secret9005 said:

So you don't want people to use launchers? Why not remove the weapon class from the game entirely?

I don't want people to use weapons that have the power of launchers with zero risks attached. When DE originally released Ogris, it was fine. When they released Penta, it was fine. Then for some reason they released Tonkor and Simulor that are even stronger but have no downsides.

Weapons without downsides must not be good.

[Kepsiis]

Just now, Naftal said:

I don't want people to use weapons that have the power of launchers with zero risks attached. When DE originally released Ogris, it was fine. When they released Penta, it was fine. Then for some reason they released Tonkor and Simulor that are even stronger but have no downsides.

Weapons without downsides must not be good.

This. This. This. This.

[-CCC-Secret]

1 minute ago, Naftal said:

I don't want people to use weapons that have the power of launchers with zero risks attached. When DE originally released Ogris, it was fine. When they released Penta, it was fine. Then for some reason they released Tonkor and Simulor that are even stronger but have no downsides.

Weapons without downsides must not be good.

Well I'm looking at Tigris Prime right now. Only downside is low reload speed. Guess it shouldn't be good.

[Naftal]

Just now, secret9005 said:

Well I'm looking at Tigris Prime right now. Only downside is low reload speed. Guess it shouldn't be good.

Low reload speed, limited range, not aoe.

From these downsides, simulor only has limited range.

[-CCC-Secret]

5 minutes ago, Naftal said:

Low reload speed, limited range, not aoe.

From these downsides, simulor only has limited range.

Easily fixed by one mod. The one that has + Reload Speed + Punch Through. Too lazy to google it's name.

Simulor has low rate of fire without Fire Rate mods. Even with them on, the stacking is inconsistent. Sometimes it stacks instantly and sometimes it takes a while. Tonkor's downside is using Sniper ammo, 2 rounds per magazine and slow reload speed. EDIT: Also grenades bounce and need to hit enemies to explode.

Edited September 12, 2016 by secret9005

[Naftal]

Just now, secret9005 said:

Easily fixed by one mod. The one that has + Reload Speed + Punch Through. Too lazy to google it's name.

Simulor has low rate of fire without Fire Rate mods. Even with them on, the stacking is inconsistent. Sometimes it stacks instantly and sometimes it takes a while. Tonkor's downside is using Sniper ammo, 2 rounds per magazine and slow reload speed.

Now you're just making up downsides for Simulor. That's just irrelevant.

You can't make Tigris' reload speed good with mods. Reload mods are S#&$ty in this game. Only way is to use toxic Chroma.

The sniper ammo is not a downside for the weapons when they still have so good ammo economy that they get more ammo back than they lose. No weapon that uses sniper ammo needs to care about ammo, they have good ammo economy.

[Kepsiis]

12 minutes ago, secret9005 said:

Well I'm looking at Tigris Prime right now. Only downside is low reload speed. Guess it shouldn't be good.

Damage distance fall off. No innate Punchthrough. And you have to reload after every shot. Basically I'm saying you cant walk into a room and not have to reload 5 times to clear it all. Unless they all line up perfectly and you have 2m punchthrough. 

[-CCC-Secret]

1 minute ago, Naftal said:

Now you're just making up downsides for Simulor. That's just irrelevant.

You can't make Tigris' reload speed good with mods. Reload mods are S#&$ty in this game. Only way is to use toxic Chroma.

The sniper ammo is not a downside for the weapons when they still have so good ammo economy that they get more ammo back than they lose. No weapon that uses sniper ammo needs to care about ammo, they have good ammo economy.

Only reason people can kill so fast with Simulor is how fast they can spam it (dubbed Spamulor). Thus the need for fire rate mods. Also damage comes from stacking. Make the stacks consistent and viola, even more OP.

Again the risk of having SELF DAMAGE the same as Penta and the others means that no one would touch it. Remove the entire class from the game.

Maybe having self damage in the form of health percentage. That way, people would still use them, but still has that risk of you dying if not used correctly. 10-15% damage to health if within AoE.

[p3z1]

19 minutes ago, Kepsiis said:

Yes I did say that. 20-30 is without damage fall off. 30-40  Is where you really start to see it.

Why would it be a bad idea? "End game" Is roughly first sortie level and above. More on the latter. 

Most weapons in warframe can do that, with forma.

[tutzdes]

Synoid Simulor is kinda ok if you are not using Mirage. Mirage is kinda ok, if you don't use AoE weapons.

The problem with Simulorage is that orbs from doubles are merging with Mirage's own orbs. So, she doesn't only deal several times the damage of other frames, but she deals it 3x faster. This is pretty stupid.

Removing the orb merging from doubles would make Mirage+Simulor combo at least bearable, I hope.

[Naftal]

2 minutes ago, secret9005 said:

Only reason people can kill so fast with Simulor is how fast they can spam it (dubbed Spamulor). Thus the need for fire rate mods. Also damage comes from stacking. Make the stacks consistent and viola, even more OP.

Again the risk of having SELF DAMAGE the same as Penta and the others means that no one would touch it. Remove the entire class from the game.

Maybe having self damage in the form of health percentage. That way, people would still use them, but still has that risk of you dying if not used correctly. 10-15% damage to health if within AoE.

Ok so you say Simulor is so good because you can spam it so fast? Should they nerf its firerate?

Percentual health damage would not work. It needs to kill you instantly if you use it incorrectly. 10% or 20% or 50% health damage would not do much.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Naftal

[Kepsiis]

1 minute ago, p3z1 said:

Most weapons in warframe can do that, with forma.

With a lot of forma. And considering you have to put a forma to build it already (Dojo speaking) it just isn't worth it unless your doing it purely for fun.

 

[-CCC-Secret]

2 minutes ago, tutzdes said:

Synoid Simulor is kinda ok if you are not using Mirage. Mirage is kinda ok, if you don't use AoE weapons.

The problem with Simulorage is that orbs from doubles are merging with Mirage's own orbs. So, she doesn't only deal several times the damage of other frames, but she deals it 3x faster. This is pretty stupid.

Removing the orb merging from doubles would make Mirage+Simulor combo at least bearable, I hope.

Buff if people use STR builds.

On ‎09‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 6:20 AM, secret9005 said:

So yeah it's 119.6% per clone and 179.4% with augment (for some reason, wiki used the % damage for 2 clones). That is when building for max power strength.

Since Blind Rage takes out too much efficiency most would probably not use it instead. That's 200% power strength with Transient Fortitude, Intensify and Power Drift.

Using just those it's 80% per clone and 120% with augment.

Now if a R2 Blind Rage is used that would be 227% power strength.

That would be 90.8% per clone and 136.2% with augment.

Taking all those into account, it would be a nerf to Mirage + S. Simulor combo. IMO I wouldn't really call it a nerf, more of a fix because that's how damage should originally be.

[p3z1]

2 minutes ago, Kepsiis said:

With a lot of forma. And considering you have to put a forma to build it already (Dojo speaking) it just isn't worth it unless your doing it purely for fun.

2 hours ago, Kepsiis said:

But honestly I just want more of the weapons to be somewhat end game viable, even if that includes lots of forma. It'd just make the game more fun, unique and diverse.

Mhmm, that's not what you said earlier...

Now, as much as a majority of the weapons can go lv60+ (because sorties and raids), a fair amount of weapons can go through the starchart, forma or not.

Also, you said it yourself. Spam forma on a weapon for fun. Some weapons are actually fun to use, hence me putting forma in them. Try making a gas + elec ignis while using a saryn, for example. That would be fun, seeing numbers pop out of everywhere.

[-CCC-Secret]

4 minutes ago, Naftal said:

Ok so you say Simulor is so good because you can spam it so fast? Should they nerf its firerate?

Percentual health damage would not work. It needs to kill you instantly if you use it incorrectly. 10% or 20% or 50% health damage would not do much.

Well it's your opinion.

I mean if you can release 2 Tonkor grenades at a time and they both deal 40% direct to health damage, that's a huge downside.

If you want them to instakill, fine by me, I'll just ignore them completely.

[Kepsiis]

2 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

Mhmm, that's not what you said earlier...

Now, as much as a majority of the weapons can go lv60+ (because sorties and raids), a fair amount of weapons can go through the starchart, forma or not.

Also, you said it yourself. Spam forma on a weapon for fun. Some weapons are actually fun to use, hence me putting forma in them. Try making a gas + elec ignis while using a saryn, for example. That would be fun, seeing numbers pop out of everywhere.

Oh yeah I have 3 forma on my ignis. Its great as a status. And is actually viable. And I said somewhat end game viable. I didn't say lets make everything op to one shot level 60s+. 

I feel like you're getting really passive aggressive against me. All I wanted and what this thread was about was to make other weapons actually usable and wanted everybody's thoughts on that.

[-CCC-Secret]

2 minutes ago, Kepsiis said:

Oh yeah I have 3 forma on my ignis. Its great as a status. And is actually viable. And I said somewhat end game viable. I didn't say lets make everything op to one shot level 60s+. 

I feel like you're getting really passive aggressive against me. All I wanted and what this thread was about was to make other weapons actually usable and wanted everybody's thoughts on that.

They are actually useable though. But there's just so much of them, and we have limited slots.