Lotus, "the Space Mom" not real? MAJOR SPOILERS

[Zeiss17]

6 hours ago, jhanX said:

After coming back from a long and relaxing vacation, I was finally reunited my dear potato-grade laptop. To celebrate this I decided to finally play MY FAVORITE GAME again. Then i got salty and stopped playing overwatch. So I opened up warframe instead. After watching a few episodes of bad unboxing the installation of the new update was finally done. I had so many things to explore. Ironically enough no new gameplay other than a quest about scanning flowers for my favourite Nationalsozialistische Arbeiterpartei. But there was a whole new map to explore! The locations where still mostly the same, but the map system was new. And they slightly fixed the void key system. BUT WHATEVER. This isn`t what I`m here to tell you.

Spoiler

Usless information is useless, but you did warn people. So nice to know about your potato pc and your love for Overwatch.

 

 

6 hours ago, jhanX said:

Space mom isn`t a mom at all. 

 

She`s a sentient. An everadapting collosal piece of matter with a conscience that among other things used the Tenno to kill the orokin, betray her own kind before or during the old war to protect the tenno and last but not least somehow alters her apperance to be the kind loving "person" that we know so well and even carried us to our little matrix chair.

Spoiler

Do you have proof of her altering her appearance? You can't make a definite claim without first describing in full what a sentient is and go in depth on the abilities it may have. As per the lore in game up to now, and the Wiki, we know that a sentient is "a race of machines, coming from the Tau System that were the chief enemies of the Orokin during the Old War. As their name suggests, they inadvertently gained sentience. " That alone cannot prove any sort of shapeshifting mysterious power of yours, which boils down to mere conjecture. And baseless conjecture can't be used as proof to demonstrate any sort off illl will towards the tenno as a whole yet alone a motive to conceal her true self from us.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, jhanX said:

NOW, to back up my claim, let`s go over the things we know about out lovely, violet clad, mother of tenno.

First, we know her old/real name is natah. She is the daughter of Hunhow, a sentient, whom she betrayed in order to protect the tenno. In both the natah and second dream quest it`s hinted among other things that she`s damaged by the void so she can`t have "children" of her own. Of course, we don`t know how having children works with sentients. So we basically will end up with more questions asked than we can answer. But lets keep going. I only assume that a sentient only makes other sentiens, so we can rule out the possibility of lotus being "human". We could suspect that she was made out of organic material by hunhow but that wouldn`t make sense why she would be that damaged by the void that she would be unable to have children herself. Also, if hunhow rather made her from organic material she could surely make more, smaller versions of herself and call them her children.

Spoiler

As you recall, from the second dream quest, Hunhow doesn't refer his fragments as sons nor daughters. They are part of his body. Which is clearly different from Natah. He has absolute control over them, and if Natah was simply made of organic matter like a common Hunhow fragment, it would be nothing different than a battalyst or conculyst, or a part of Hunhow "body", lacking any free will. Her betrayal wouldn't happen if she wasn't a separate entity from Hunhow. The void would damage only the process that creates separate entities in a sentient organism, but not the process of breaking up into more pieces and still retain control on each of them. This explain why the Lotus is damaged enough to not be able to spawn a separate entity of her own, which can be classified as "child".

 

 

6 hours ago, jhanX said:

It`s still unclear what exactly a sentient is, but from the symaris info we get introduced to when the sentients was first presented before the orokin. They reject it saying that it violates their laws, probably the law about not making Artificial intelligence that the ordis bits tells about. The object presented before them adapt, which in turn would make it evolve into something that would be capable of thought, the counter to this which would be that it wouldn`t survive the void. So basically the sentients. When hunhow talks about his pieces he probably means the differents parts of him, Including his fighter sentient drones. The interesting thing here being that a sentient isn`t a single creature, rather than a singular mind controlling a vast number of pieces/drones. It also isnt ever stated that the drones have to be shaped in any specific way. 

So what we see carry us to our fancy gaming chair isn`t THE lotus, but a part of her. Probably a drone, looking the way the lotus wishes us to see her. Not as a hivemind computer called natah, but as a loving motherly figure named the lotus that tucks her little teenage mutant ninja egdelords in if they`ve had a boo-boo.

Spoiler

We still don't know what a sentient main form is, as we have seen only their conscience within their fragments. Also, fundametal fact: Hunhow is dead by the time of the second dream, but his consciousness lives on in his fragments. If you look at Hunhow first appereance, it looks like a charred version of Lotus, which could lead to the real look of a setient's real body. However, we only see Hunhow fragments "for real" on the battlefield. And we don't have any knowledge if these fragments are really part of his body OR a mere construct used by him, like tenno use a warframe, he could use his fragments as an alternate body to inject his own will in. And judging by the cables behind Lotus's and charred lotus' head visors, I'd say that it's clearly their own "transferrence" method. They jack in into a hivemind control station and control each and every fragment remotely. Therefore it's safe to say that her real body is what we saw, and not the big or small drones possessed by Hunhow. Or a drone itself!

 

Spoiler

Hunhow drones are nothing but drones as you said. Considered part of his body because led by his will...just like a warframe was considered a tenno's real body because it is controlled by the tenno's own will! But that doesn't mean he hasn't a main body. He did have one, to be true, but it has been destroyed. Hence the charred lotus look. It's a visual manifestation of his consciousness. A consciousness that can be later uploaded and stored in robotic fragments, to be controlled at his leasure and used as a spare body instead of his real one, which somehow looks exactly like the Lotus we see, only burned up simply because he is actually dead!

Edited September 13, 2016 by ShaneKahnnigan17

[Silvus-Sol]

 

 

1 hour ago, ShaneKahnnigan17 said:

Hunhow drones are nothing but drones as you said. Considered part of his body because led by his will...just like a warframe was considered a tenno's real body because it is controlled by the tenno's own will! But that doesn't mean he hasn't a main body. He did have one, to be true, but it has been destroyed. Hence the charred lotus look. It's a visual manifestation of his consciousness. A consciousness that can be later uploaded and stored in robotic fragments, to be controlled at his leasure and used as a spare body instead of his real one, which somehow looks exactly like the Lotus we see, only burned up simply because he is actually dead!

I'm pretty sure Hunhow isn't dead, and that he was buried alive in the "tomb" on Uranus. Also, I'm pretty sure the burnt Lotus he uses is not what he looks like but is instead a jab at our Lotus. He is purposefully using her charred image to drive the point home that he feels like his real daughter is dead, burned and ruined in the flames of betrayal.

Hunhow does have a body, and I'm pretty sure that this is it.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by Silvus-Sol

[Zeiss17]

5 minutes ago, Silvus-Sol said:

I'm pretty sure Hunhow isn't dead, and that he was buried alive in the "tomb" on Uranus. Also, I'm pretty sure the burnt Lotus he uses is not what he looks like but is instead a jab at our Lotus. He is purposefully using her charred image to drive the point home that he feels like his real daughter is dead, burned and ruined in the flames of betrayal.

Hunhow does have a body, and I'm pretty sure that this is it.

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I'd like you to take a look at warframe wiki under the hunhow page. It is clearly stated "Although he is dead by the time players encounter him, Hunhow's remains still house his consciousness, allowing him to communicate with others whenever someone comes in physical contact with his remains. "

Therefore....

 

My claim is still valid!

Edited September 13, 2016 by ShaneKahnnigan17

[Silvus-Sol]

2 minutes ago, ShaneKahnnigan17 said:

 

 

I'd like you to take a look at warframe wiki under the hunhow page. It is clearly stated "Although he is dead by the time players encounter him, Hunhow's remains still house his consciousness, allowing him to communicate with others whenever someone comes in physical contact with his remains. "

Therefore....

 

My claim is still valid!

 

[Zeiss17]

4 minutes ago, Silvus-Sol said:

 

That doesn't invalidate my claim I believe.

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

6 hours ago, Gelkor said:

True, Natah could be animating Margulis's corpse like a puppet.

No, she isn't.

Margulis is mincemeat during the Crewman codex in Simaris' room. It literally says:

Spoiler

They opened the chamber door just in time for me to see it happen; the Archimedian erupting into a flash, jade-like and blinding. I knew her. She was the greatest scholar of genetics who ever lived. Except now she was nothing but mist and gore.

There is no controlling a multi-bisected slice of meat, let alone attempting to recreate the original body in its 100% form.

[Gelkor]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Foxkid_8 said:

No, she isn't.

Margulis is mincemeat during the Crewman codex in Simaris' room. It literally says:

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They opened the chamber door just in time for me to see it happen; the Archimedian erupting into a flash, jade-like and blinding. I knew her. She was the greatest scholar of genetics who ever lived. Except now she was nothing but mist and gore.

There is no controlling a multi-bisected slice of meat, let alone attempting to recreate the original body in its 100% form.

That Archimedian was mincement. And yes, Margulis was likely vaporized in the same manner as her predecessor was, I was mostly joking. I don't think Margulis was Archimedian at the time of the Sentient's conception, and I don't think she ever worked on the "Crewman Project," which is what that particular Archimedian was working on.

The Tenno were the answer to the Sentients, Transference likely discovered during the Old War. If Margulis was the Archimedian in the Crewman Synthesis, Transference, Tenno, and the Warframes would have been something developed prior to the Sentient's creation. (As Margulis's death was shortly before Ballas started making Weaponized Warframes, as in Silvana's Codices.)

That said, Natah does mimic Margulis in voice at least, likely in appearance as well. DE now employs scores of different VA's to voice different characters, that Rebecca voices Margulis as well as Natah/Lotus, only sans a voice filter, is intended.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Gelkor

[(PSN)Silverback73]

9 hours ago, Kaokasalis said:

I think its a emote of applause.

Looks like face palm tbh...

[(XBOX)GeckoGenesis]

11 hours ago, Beggining said:

It's all right, we'll all learn from our mistakes :)

Plus the community is mostly helpful, with a little bit of teasing and snarks here and there XD

A little bit of teasing and snarky remarks?

 

I'd say this community was about 40% helpful and 60% everything else. 

 

Anywho,

jhanX, I completely agree with you!  I can't figure out how a large spindly sentient can manage to disguise itself any other way!  That body has got to be a drone or at least an illusion of some sort. 

[(XBOX)GeckoGenesis]

4 hours ago, ShaneKahnnigan17 said:

 

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I'd like you to take a look at warframe wiki under the hunhow page. It is clearly stated "Although he is dead by the time players encounter him, Hunhow's remains still house his consciousness, allowing him to communicate with others whenever someone comes in physical contact with his remains. "

Therefore....

 

My claim is still valid!

You are aware this is a wiki that you are using as your source?  The wiki is merely a guide that can be edited by multiple people and some of the information on there (especially that involving storylines) is clearly subjective. 

[Beggining]

32 minutes ago, (XB1)GeckoGenesis said:

A little bit of teasing and snarky remarks?

 

I'd say this community was about 40% helpful and 60% everything else.

Eh, it's probably just me. When you've lurked so far on the internet yadda yadda it's a lot kinder than most communities and moderators are more active yadda yadda.

You know, things I selectively ignore, emphasize and such ;p

[Eric1738]

It certainly wouldn't be a surprise if her body is just a duplicate or something she used to disguse her true appearance. In Warframe universe it seems pretty easy to get human clones.

[Zeiss17]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GeckoGenesis said:

You are aware this is a wiki that you are using as your source?  The wiki is merely a guide that can be edited by multiple people and some of the information on there (especially that involving storylines) is clearly subjective. 

 

The wiki is pretty belieavable as a source. As you said it's a guide. What good is a guide if it shares false informations?

However I come prepared. If you want something more relevant I have somethin from the natah quest that you could say is some strong evidence that points at hunhow real body being dead.

[Kronxito]

15 hours ago, Gelkor said:

True, Natah could be animating Margulis's corpse like a puppet.

I think that too.  Probably, in future we will see people we think they are dead..... they are not.

If Natah is animating Margulis's corpse, then we can think Natah were sent to exterminate orokins and tennos but... at the last moment Margulis's mind could take some control and stopped tenno extintion. Then both minds merged (might be a mind combat?) and..... here we have Lotus.  Power of Love..... so beautiful.

Edited September 14, 2016 by ArionLightning

[jhanX]

16 hours ago, (PS4)xxSHEPERDxx said:

Not too far into the game, but where the heck is all this lore even coming from? Is this going to be introduced in regular gameplay, multiplayer only mission content, or just the encyclopedia thing? 

If you look up the synthesis target rewards from symaris.

[catastrophy]

18 hours ago, Silvus-Sol said:

I'm still convinced that "The Lotus" is the headpiece, and that the woman that is the body/face/boobs is just a host of sorts.

 
 

I believe this is likely, too. Though isn't there the part in the Natah quest where you need to find the bones of the father?

And they were quite large bones. The way Sentients "come to life" is by fusing together creature and machine?

Sentient Infested confirmed? #whatsbehindthedoor?

[(XBOX)GeckoGenesis]

6 hours ago, ShaneKahnnigan17 said:

 

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The wiki is pretty belieavable as a source. As you said it's a guide. What good is a guide if it shares false informations?

However I come prepared. If you want something more relevant I have somethin from the natah quest that you could say is some strong evidence that points at hunhow real body being dead.

"What good is a guide if it shares false information?"

Exactly.  Which is why I'm saying that using a wiki as your source is not the best idea.  Yes, it's pretty believable, but don't take the it as the ultimate authority.  Whip out your more relevant something.  I'm sure it would back up your case a lot better. 

[(PSN)xxSHEPERDxx]

Thanks peeps, good to hear. Though that does mean that the game starts off very, very slowly with lore and exposition. That should be adjusted in the future.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

When Ordin gets his memory back, will he trick us into finding his body and try to kill us?

[texrei]

What if the Lotus isn't a single person (drone)? Considering how she's connected to every Tenno, it is quite impossible to handle being alone. So maybe there are many (legion!). And maybe there is even the Great Lotus, the core of this swarm. But i believe, i want to believe, that she is much more than this walking human body.

[0hMyTenno]

Natah using Margulis's body , love it

[(PSN)Silverback73]

5 hours ago, catastrophy said:

I believe this is likely, too. Though isn't there the part in the Natah quest where you need to find the bones of the father?

And they were quite large bones. The way Sentients "come to life" is by fusing together creature and machine?

Sentient Infested confirmed? #whatsbehindthedoor?

It's not as improbable as people might believe.

There is still one big mystery that hasn't been expounded upon:

There is a sinister, pervasive hive-minded consciousness controlling the infested...that could have originated when the Void-enhanced Technocyte Virus infected the collective consciousness of the Sentients.

How do you create the ultimate counter-weapon to the Sentients?

I dare speculate that Warframes are Dead Sentient Bones (exo-skeleton) that are filled with void-flesh that Tenno can control.

 

[Guest]

thx, guys - this is the most entertaining thread since i started playing warframe about warframe

i asked allready for a button to turn lotus's voice off

no, no heresy here for deinstallation, a button to x-off her blah-loops would be enough for me ^^)

 

[WERElektro]

On 13.9.2016 at 2:37 PM, jhanX said:

Ironically enough no new gameplay other than a quest about scanning flowers for my favourite Nationalsozialistische Arbeiterpartei.

What? that's funny !

[Zeiss17]

On 14/9/2016 at 1:32 PM, (XB1)GeckoGenesis said:

 

"What good is a guide if it shares false information?"

Exactly.  Which is why I'm saying that using a wiki as your source is not the best idea.  Yes, it's pretty believable, but don't take the it as the ultimate authority.  Whip out your more relevant something.  I'm sure it would back up your case a lot better. 

Spoiler

 

 

Go to minute 9:12. And listen to what Hunhow himself states. Do you get it now?