"Survival" PUGs not worth the time anymore?

[marelooke]

Since the change to the drop tables I have barely seen any relics from survival missions. They used to be a guaranteed drop in rotation B but they sure as hell ain't there anymore and PUGs making it to rotation C (or god forbid, the next rotation) are rarer than honest politicians.

Simply put survival just isn't fun anymore. I mean survival was what drew me to Warframe in the first place, what with UT3 having done away with the Onslaught mode from UT2k4. But at this point I wonder why I still bother (with Survival): there's no challenge (since most groups don't take it anywhere near where it would become even remotely interesting) and just doing them hoping for the odd fun group that keeps going until things start getting too much for whatever we have in the PUG isn't even remotely rewarding anymore as chances of getting a Relic out of these runs have essentially been reduced to zero (and yes, I'm aware survival wasn't the best place to farm them in the first place, but it gave you at least *something* for your time).

Sure, I could solo, but mashing E with Inaros in Derelict Survival gets old fast as hell. The fun of PUGging survival was seeing how far we could take it with whatever random frames and builds were in the group as I personally don' t care about "breaking the system" and going for hours with an "optimal/meta" group but people willing to do that seem to become rarer and rarer as the years go by.

And sure I could set up premades but see previous point about "optimal" groups.

I mean, if things would be getting too hard for the group I would understand, obviously, but usually I see players in groups that were doing perfectly fine head to extraction at like the 10minute mark and I can't help but wonder "WHY???". I mean, 20min is optimal blah blah, could understand that, but anything less?

Oh, and about the quotes around survival in the title, if the group wimps out way before the first C rotation when things become "hard-ish" it's hardly "survival", now is it?

Bottom line:

• I'd like there to be a very good reason for groups to complete at least one full rotation (AABC, this should guarantee at least one Relic, which, in my experience is no longer the case)
• I really don't want to be forced to extract when the wussies in my group go cower under their mommies shirt at the 10minute mark. Please. It' s been happening way too often recently and together with the utter bore that is Void Trace farming it's probably burning me out faster than anything in the past three years (and 4 days, seems I missed my WF birthday. Oops.).

Or is it really just me?

Edited September 19, 2016 by marelooke
So many typos...

[Kuestenjung]

So nothing changed?

It was allways this way. From time to time I am lucky to get a squad that wants to play longer in endless mission.

[marelooke]

Just now, Kuestenjung said:

So nothing changed?

It was allways this way. From time to time I am lucky to get a squad that wants to play longer in endless mission.

15min used to be pretty standard, even for groups of relative newbies, 20min was fairly normal as well. Longer was always exceptional, but at least you got one Key out of it, nowadays you don't even get that.

[CrimsonDalekanium]

8 minutes ago, marelooke said:

Since the change to the drop tables I have barely seen any relics from survival missions. They used to be a guaranteed drop in rotation B but they sure as hell ain't there anymore and PUGs making it to rotation C (or god forbid, the next rotation) are rarer than honest politicians.

Simply put survival just isn't fun anymore. I mean survival was what drew me to Warframe in the first place, what with UT3 having done away with the Onslaught mode from UT2k4. But at this point I wonder why I still bother (with Survival): there's no challenge (since most groups don't take it anywhere near where it would become even remotely interesting) and just doing them hoping for the odd fun group that keeps going until things start getting too much for whatever we have in the PUG isn't even remotely rewarding anymore as chances of getting a Relic out of these runs have essentially been reduced to zero (and yes, I'm aware survival wasn't the best place to farm them in the first place, but it gave you at least *something* for your time).

Sure, I could solo, but mashing E with Inaros in Derelict Survival gets old fast as hell. The fun of PUGging survival was seeing how far we could take it with whatever random frames and builds were in the group as I personally don' t care about "breaking the system" and going for hours with an "optimal/meta" group but people willing to do that seem to become rarer and rarer as the years go by.

And sure I could set up premades but see previous point about "optimal" groups.

I mean, if things would be getting too hard for the group I would understand, obviously, but usually I see players in groups that were doing perfectly fine head to extraction at like the 10minute mark and I can't help but wonder "WHY???". I mean, 20min is optimal blah blah, could understand that, but anything less?

Oh, and about the quotes around survival in the title, if the group wimps out way before the first C rotation when things become "hard-ish" it's hardly "survival", now is it?

Bottom line:

• I'd like there to be a very good reason for groups to complete at least one full rotation (AABC, this should guarantee at least one Relic, which, in my experience is no longer the case)
• I really don't want to be forced to extract when the wussies in my group go cower under their mommies shirt at the 10minute mark. Please. It' s been happening way too often recently and together with the utter bore that is Void Trace farming it's probably burning me out faster than anything in the past three years (and 4 days, seems I missed my WF birthday. Oops.).

Or is it really just me?

I very rarely run survival for relics or credits. I get my relics from defense, spy, and excavs, my creds from sorties. If I'm running a survival, I'm farming for a resource (usually neurodes/plastids/polymers), and I can often get as many as I need in 10 minutes. Not because it's DIFFICULT to last more than 10 minutes as Hydroid on Uranus Surv with a Sancti tigris and galatine prime, but because I don't need to.

[marelooke]

Just now, CrimsonDalekanium said:

I very rarely run survival for relics or credits. I get my relics from defense, spy, and excavs, my creds from sorties. If I'm running a survival, I'm farming for a resource (usually neurodes/plastids/polymers), and I can often get as many as I need in 10 minutes. Not because it's DIFFICULT to last more than 10 minutes as Hydroid on Uranus Surv with a Sancti tigris and galatine prime, but because I don't need to.

Why not go the extra 5 or 10min if a Relic is guaranteed? If you're still farming resources then the extra ones are always nice (unless it's Argon, of course) and you'll be needing relics anyway to get Void Traces (of course, now that they're no longer guaranteed drops...guess there we have a big part of the problem).

[ariivanasan]

DE just need make individual  extraction

[Trichouette]

What's the point of survival when you have excavation ? Oh poop I shouldn't have said that, they'll nerf excavation now :o)

[FierceRadiance]

Would it be a fair re-statement of your concern to say, in PUGs everybody plays the way they want to, and sometimes that means they aren't playing the way somebody else wants them to?

_{^{Guess it's just the PUG life...}}

[ashrah]

that is very true sadlly most missions is like that now... i started to play solo even more..... i feel ppl just dont care anymore for team play... evryone running to own side... if they die qill quite game...cz u cant run 5 rooms from objective to res someone and fail mission....devs need to do something about this really fast

[OverlordMcGeek]

I loved going 20 minutes with noobs on Apollodorus so they could get some mods and cores. Now endo is more rare than a freshly caught trout and junctions give the Intensify and Streamline that they need. I miss trying out random builds with all the unused mods to give myself something to do while helping people.

[(PSN)DBR87]

I feel you man. Void Survival is dead to me because of Relic system. ODS is still kind of a thing but Infested where never as fun to fight as Corrupted. And there was hardly a reason to do Grineer or Corpus survival back in the day, let alone now.

I am just glad we still have Excavation generally un changed because I would be bored out of my mind if we didn't.

[marelooke]

Just now, FierceRadiance said:

Would it be a fair re-statement of your concern to say, in PUGs everybody plays the way they want to, and sometimes that means they aren't playing the way somebody else wants them to?

_{^{Guess it's just the PUG life...}}

Oh, although I'm, on the surface, complaining about the players I hope it's clear that I'm also pointing out that survival is a seriously broken game mode in many ways, quite a few of which are anything but new.

As I see it:

1. many players are not aware of the possible rewards and thus the point of going longer (insofar there is a point, see No3), this was even more true when rotations were still a thing (once met a MR20 guy who thought rotations went ABC instead of AABC...you can laugh at him all you want but where in the game were you going find this information?)
2. the rewards of survival are sub-par compared to some newer game modes (eg. Excavation and even Interception). Power creep on the mission level.
3. with Void 2.0 rotations went the way of the Dodo again, ergo, rewards of survival are now even worse than before without even a guaranteed relic drop in the first 20minutes. As rightfully remarked, if not doing it for fun then resources are probably the only reason to still bother with it (though I wonder if Excavation isn't better, since it also gives Relics at a decent rate).
4. players are too risk averse and are generally not aware that as long as someone makes it to extraction they get all their loot (plus whatever was unlocked in the extra rotations while they were dead)
5. forced extraction just makes all of the above worse since we can't even decide to continue when at least two decide to leave

I was taught point No4 by a nice Rhino way back in the day in a 60min survival on Earth (I think, Grineer tilesets were all kinda the same back then), but it's kind of sad that after three years this is still something players have to teach each other. Just putting that info on the revive screen might already help.

 

[DSpite]

7 hours ago, ashrah said:

that is very true sadlly most missions is like that now... i started to play solo even more..... i feel ppl just dont care anymore for team play... evryone running to own side... if they die qill quite game...cz u cant run 5 rooms from objective to res someone and fail mission....devs need to do something about this really fast

No they don't. It's not your mission, it's just a mission.

If you want to do "something about it", then quit and restart, and get friends to play with you. If you can't do that, then stop trying to get complete strangers to do what you want by force.

Even if I ended up in a mission with someone AFK and hit double doors, I would actually bother to ask "are you there" before waiting a bit for a reply and THEN restarting. This is the internet, not your house. You adjust to it, not the other way around.

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by DSpite

[ashrah]

1 minute ago, DSpite said:

No they don't. It's not your mission, it's just a mission.

If you want to do "something about it", then quit and restart, and get friends to play with you. If you can't do that, then stop trying to get complete strangers to do what you want by force.

Even if I ended up in a mission with someone AFK and hit double doors, I would actually bother to ask "are you there" before waiting a bit for a reply and THEN restarting. This is the internet, not your house. You adjust to it, not the other way around.

 

of course it matter why should anyone carry ppl who dont even  try to play devs need to find way to punish ppl who doing that......freedom of  gameplay is fun but some stuff must be very clear....

[marelooke]

5 hours ago, DSpite said:

No they don't. It's not your mission, it's just a mission.

If you want to do "something about it", then quit and restart, and get friends to play with you. If you can't do that, then stop trying to get complete strangers to do what you want by force.

Even if I ended up in a mission with someone AFK and hit double doors, I would actually bother to ask "are you there" before waiting a bit for a reply and THEN restarting. This is the internet, not your house. You adjust to it, not the other way around.

 

I can agree with most points except the "get friends to play with you". If that's the only solution to get to play a game mode the way it's intended (at least I would hope survival is about surviving) or fun then something is, imho, wrong. I agree that punishing players is the bad way to go about fixing it though. Promoting the intended behaviour is what I feel should happen. I feel that fixing the reward disparity between the endless modes would be a good start.