shadow of the dead:the most weak ulti

[Matt89Connor]

17 minutes ago, peggisan said:

The build is extremely strong in high levels if you pop nullifiers bubbles. 150 energy is nothing when you have equilibrium and despoil/desecrate on. Dead enemies will spawn a health orb most of the time giving you armor from health conversion and energy from equilibrium. Playing nekros on 3rd sortie survivals, more often than not, you find yourself topped off in energy. The shadows arent supposed to kill things. They exist to soak damage that you otherwise would be taking. 

It sounds like your main problem is that you rely on Nekros abilities too much. None of them are designed to kill high level enemies. You need a strong gun or melee to constantly create corpses to desecrate and summon. 

leaving that to have 200% of the power force, you have to sacrifice 3/4 slots way mods Corrupt.
I repeat one last time then just: his ulti has a problem that could be resolved peacefully, it is useless for you to put me build nekros play at a high level, I have my build to play at high levels and sorties, and also the appropriate arsenal, but it is not what I speak, but we speak of the technical problems of the power that could be accommodated in a flash if only DE wanted.

[Rodag]

While sotd definitely isn't the weakest 4th ability and I disagree with some of your points (such as health decay. While redicing it by 30% or something like that wouldn't hurt it I've found it to be rather easily managable with 1 or 2 duration mods.) I definitely do agree that DE Made at least one huge mistake with the rework.

While shield of shadows makes power strength quite useful on nekros, they massively nerfed the shadow's skaling with power strength by making the number of shadows fixed without proper compensation to their firepower. Imo the selection priorities don't really count since they still only take from the last 20 kills and (especially for infested) have units that are worse at dealing damage in higher priority (like the mentioned boiler). While it may be a bit easier to summon the right shadows if one doesn't prioritize in killing it's not possible anymore to manually decide what to summon.

So while one may argue that this feature is still a buff it's definitely not a buff that can offset the massive loss in power that came with removing the shadow number scaling with power strength.

As far as i remember pretty much nobody considered the shadows nerf-worthy. Rather the opposite. So i don't think the power strength nerf is a well-thought nerf but rather the result of not knowing how to rebalance them, maybe even not being aware of how much it's nerfed so rather doing nothing to change their power (since the number nerf didn't come intended as a power nerf but for performance).

Edited September 30, 2016 by Rodag
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[Crawd127]

17 hours ago, Matt89Connor said:

Boy, I can understand your answers, thou art adapted, but the reality is quite different, Nekros in any type of mission and weaker than other caster or CC k had a rework, or are new generation, not because he in itself is weak, but because his Ulti is not complete!

Adaptation is the first thing to do when there's a rework. Adapt yourself and you'll see the difference. The build I'm currently using was a build that I was thinking before the rework, I tried it before the rework and it was great. After the rework, it was even better.

Here's my build, as I've said in my response to your first post, it's not the best build for Nekros, but I like that build and it works very well for me.

Aura: Regeneration
Mods: 1- Health Conversion, 2- Despoil, 3-  Equilibrium, 4- Shield of Shadows, 5- Rage, 6- Quick Thinking, 7- Flow (Soon to be Primed Flow, just need another Forma), 8- Vitality

I could change Rage and QT for Power Strength, however, that combo allowed me to get the energy to cast my Shadows or to survive when they are down. I rarely and I do say rarely go down with that build, I've been running it almost since the rework, in all mission type and I have no problems in Sortie 3 with that build.

Now, how can his ult be not complete? Yes, to me, Shield of Shadow is mandatory, but that's what makes it complete. And I would like to repeat myself with this:

Quote

I never saw any necromancer like character where their summons are able to do as much dmg as a playable character. Warframe included. At some point, these type of characters shouldn't be seens as dps character, that's not their goal. They goal is to distract the enemy while the necromancer is doing the real damage and Warframe has this gamestyle very well implemented. All the agro generated by the Shadows are well done, combined with the Shield of Shadows, it's just a life saver. Overall, the Shadows are meatshields while you do the rest.

I've put more emphases on the main point. They do not do as much damage as a playable character and that's normal. Also, with me friends, I'm oftenly the one doing the most damage and that comes from Nekros and his summon. Also, some defense mission are really trivialized with Nekros now. I farmed a lot on Hydron and Outer Terminal up to 20 waves solo. It's very easy, even if they are at rank 55 at wave 20. I could probably go higher, but I prefer to quit and restart to make it faster... So please, I'm not just saying that I'm "adapted", I see how powerful that ult is, in fact, from wave 2 to wave 20, there's always 7 shadows at my side...

17 hours ago, Matt89Connor said:

The problems that I listed are serious problems in my opinion, and if you read all the posts in the feedback, you will understand that has no powers powerful enough to replace its Ulti in builds (such as Nyx Chaos and a lot more power Absorb useful), because ther's powers are only useful with agument and often get truble (see terrify hated by many players),

Oh please, I will not read complains by people who don't want to adapt to changes. I've had a talk with someone who said that Nekros is useless because Desecrate is the only reason Nekros exist.

I'm sorry to say this but your problems aren't serious problems and I've stated why in my post, yet you're saying I'm wrong... How can you say that I'm wrong when I main Nekros since the rework? To each problem there's a solution and that solution is to adapt first. If I am able to do some survival mission in Sortie Mission 3 solo with him, sorry but Nekros doesn't have a problem, I would say that the players have one. Yes the Health Decay is annoying, but so what? As I've said, I found out that with my build and my playstyle, it's actually very fine because I can upgrade my Shadows faster.

17 hours ago, Matt89Connor said:

I listing all those problems, and this are real problems it is useless to look for excuses, and i'm not wonder that it becomes a power OP as BS Ash, but there are only some tricks that will change the way you play, making it better and more useful.

I agree that they are real problems, but they are YOUR problems. These problems aren't mine, because I feel like he's as OP as BS Ash right now, and I'm talking about Nekros, not the ult only. Is Nekros perfect? No, there's a few trouble, one of them is the damage flash caused by Despoil, when it triggers, I always think there's an enemy attacking me, but it's not, it's just Desecrate activation... But that's really minor. With your change, I would feel like Nekros would be like the Tonkor before the headshot fix (And I do say fix and not nerf, because it was a bug to always get headshots with the Tonkor).

17 hours ago, Matt89Connor said:

Add that , say that Nekos is strong in a mission in SOLO does not make sense! because a Caster should give their best on the team, so I thank you for the answers, but to think as you say is wrong, since the feedback serve to make it clear to DE issues and resolve ,if there were, probably many bugs and more would still unresolved XD

You would have to explain me how, all I'm saying is wrong. And I can say that Nekros is strong in a solo mission because I'm mostly playing solo... And as I've said, I did some Sortie 3 Missions with Nekros solo... And some of them were Corpus mission! (Viva Nullifiers Fiesta!) These are facts and as far as I know, they are 80-100 rank mission, which is high level missions... And how my feedback worth nothing and is wrong?

The only bug that I was happy that DE fix, was the Nullifiers bug when summoned, they disabled Nekros power and once "turned back" as an ally, they didn't removed their disable status, so I was unable to cast any abilities. THIS was a real problem and it did get fixed. That's the kind of issues that needed investigations. Now, Nekros is more than fine, I feel like he's in the top tier warframes.

5 hours ago, Matt89Connor said:

so guys, I'm not here to ask you to have a Warframe that does it all, and he is not my favorite warfame, it is a matter of principle, about how things are not done right. If you don't understand, i stop now this conversation, because has no sense.

Your argument is weak, provide us a build that you mainly use, in the mission type and level that you're usually playing. Bring arguments and please... stop denying other's arguments.

5 hours ago, Matt89Connor said:

i test this build, and i see big problem in high levels, especially when nullifier gone and you lose 60% of undeads in 3 seconds and need 150 of energy for recast the power, is too mouch, and  with 200% of strenght they can kill nothing in i tested so this mods like intesify, are not useful :(

You said that you've tested that build. I haven't but I was thinking about something similar to that build. But you have tested that build how many time? What was your other gears? Have you tried different playstyle with that build?

With my Nekros build, I rush in the face of my enemies doing gunfight up close and personal with my Soma Prime and Nikana Prime.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

On 9/29/2016 at 5:05 AM, Matt89Connor said:

ever try nekros in a battle with handicap like [...] energy reduction, eximus stronghold? well there the ulti is weak like a rabbit vs a pack of tigers

Yeah. All the time. Because Despoil Desecrate Nekros with Health Conversion, Arcane Pulse, and Arcane Energize sets gives no S#&$s about energy reduction and eximus units. And I do just fine in those types of Sorties without Shield of Shadows augmented Shadows of the Dead, because it's either max range Desecrate or 160% range Creeping Terrify with a max Blind Rage with no efficiency mods.

[brainjelly2g0]

17 hours ago, --DSP-- said:

How are Volt, Atlas, Nezha, Mirage's ults weak?

They're not weak, but they're certainly weaker than Nekros'. Although, Mirage's ultimate right now doesn't really do anything to me, but maybe I just play her wrong.

[erny0507]

As a 4 power is fine. a big power strenght and you can get 82% damage reduction and that a lot, also the shadows have high threat then you so they are attack more then you. For me at least the shadows are not  meant to do damage instead to suck the damage

[Laidain]

shadows of the dead sucks butt without the augment for it.A warframe ability shouldn't need an augment to be good.

[Doctor_Grayfield]

On 9/29/2016 at 0:45 AM, Matt89Connor said:

...the grenner faction can survive well to the decay because they have armor, but infested and corpus are weak...

Disagree on all points, but I just had to stop reading when I got to this sentence.  Have you never had four or five Ancient Disruptors and/or Healers under your control before?

In any case, I think it goes without saying that most of the people here think SotD is definitely far from the worst ultimate in the game.  Let's see your build.  I'm certain we'll find the issue there.

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

Not every build works for everyone, but I made a melee Nekros build. 

Steel Charge

Handspring

Vitality

Health Conversion

Primed Flow

Primed Continuity

Rage

Quick Thinking

Despoil

Shield of Shadows

Also a decent melee weapon with Life Strike.

This set up doesn't put any of his abilities in the red which means they're all useful to a certain degree. I use despoil to hurt myself and create orbs. I pick up orbs and with Health Conversion I gain armor. When the heat gets turned up I use Shield of Shadows to give me even more damage reduction on top of my already ridiculous armor. They also pull aggro. I don't even care if they can kill something, that's not why I have them there.

If I get put into a bad spot I have Quick Thinking to buy me a bit of time and I can life strike to get health back and Use terrify to give me some breathing room. And as long as I keep my shadows health up its all good! If I keep at it my Nekros will not die. Literally the only ability I don't use on a regular basis is soul punch.

I did an infested survival. For an hour. The only reason I had to leave was because I couldn't dish out enough damage to keep Life Support.

After experiencing this... I love Nekros and I don't think he needs a change. His health decay is slightly annoying, but not unmanageable.

 

[RealPandemonium]

OP has a S#&$ty way of presenting his case, but he is onto something.  After its nerf, SotD is a shadow (lol) if its former self, whether its by damage potential, by aggro redirection, by utility; pretty much by every measure.

[UrbanShade]

Well, just interesting, why practically everybody suggesting health conversion and shield of shadows? I know, how that mods work, but still not understand that builds.

About the ult. Well. I dont know, what to use. From one side of the coin, that is arent weakest ultimate, its pretty doable on its own, and even if shadows cant kill really good and have that decay, im just recasting to renew their timer once in 15 or 20 seconds, but that shadow is really good to distract enemies, even without augment, because i noticed, that enemies aggro to em way more, than to Nekros, but on other side before u was able to summon way more, than 7.

[RealPandemonium]

7 hours ago, UrbanShade said:

Well, just interesting, why practically everybody suggesting health conversion and shield of shadows?

The best part is that those builds worked better before the nerf.  People just found out about them now because Nekros had patch notes.  

[Fomiru]

No, I have to disagree with all the points you've made.  Shadows of the Dead is an incredibly powerful ultimate, you just has to understand how it works properly.

It scales incredibly well, and with the mods can make enemies do 4x the damage and have 3x the health and shields, making them incredibly dangerous and helpful.  Not to mention with Shield of Shadows, they are incredibly useful to your own sustainability in addition to all the awesome benefits shadows can bring.  It doesn't bring immediate results, and health decay is managed very easily with a duration mod and maintaining their health.

Nekros mods incredibly strangely, you just have to experiment to play one of the most interesting and fun Warframes.

[xRufus7x]

On 9/30/2016 at 0:41 AM, --DSP-- said:

How are Volt, Atlas, Nezha, Mirage's ults weak?

Nezha's doesn't stop flying enemies or enemies that have been knocked down making it a less reliable Rhino Stomp. Volt's CC has a damage cap which makes it next to useless in higher levels against unarmored enemies. Atlas has all the problems of Nekros but without the benefits. No idea about Mirage. I still see blind builds with her all the time even after the nerf.

Edited October 1, 2016 by xRufus7x

[xRufus7x]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

The best part is that those builds worked better before the nerf.  People just found out about them now because Nekros had patch notes.  

That is debatable. Nekros added mobility makes Desecrate a lot more manageable and resummoning shadows to you stops shadows from wandering out of SOSs range

[UrbanShade]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

The best part is that those builds worked better before the nerf.  People just found out about them now because Nekros had patch notes.  

Well, never used that, but after nerf i can finally run through map and shoot stuff, not to be 3-slave :D Btw, im way more prefer to build Nekros around Creeping Terrify augment, with Despoil and a bit balanced stats, i cant much need for Shield augment, if enemies can deal high enough damage, IMO, its better to slow them down to insane amount, terrify them and slightly cut their armor