The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[Stonehenge]

26 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

I never asked for vacuum to be nerfed. If the price of putting it on every sentinel is butchering its range, then the price is too high. If for some reason DE decide that it can't be made universal without butchering its range, then don't make it universal.

At the speed you can move in this game, this nerf is nothing. Absolutely, nothing. Most of the players who spent the last hours testing it instead of yelling on forums have a far more balanced opinion than here. The rework of sentinels is still in progress, and goes in the right direction : Everyone forget vacuum has become innate now, wich spares you a mod slot, but this is nothing according to people here*. They made this universal, but you will have to move your butt just a lilttle more and put yourself a bit more in danger to get what you want. That's cool. You maybe lost your easy-lazy button, nothing more.

Edit :

* And not the mention this idea nobody talked about, introduced with new machete : Giving a special synergie between a particular melee weapon and a Sentinel (Djinn in that case). That's a part of further experiments regarding Sentinels, it's a good idea, aaaand obviously nobody mentions that.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Stonehenge

[Separius]

11 hours ago, TimSin-EGT- said:

OP's post.

There are no legit pro nerf arguments, guy, because the opinions of people who get bothered by an aspect, of how others play the game, that doesn't remotely affect them one bit, the opinions of these people can and should safely be dismissed.

To the aforementioned people: How does me picking up my loot in any way whatsoever affect you negatively? How? Loot is shared. What I get doesn't steal from you.
I don't give a whatever how you pick your goddamn loot up, it doesn't affect me, and neiter does my way of looting affect you in any way. It just doesn't.

[Nep_Blanc]

6 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I remember picking up items from 12m far before this update (if I remember correctly - i'm not even sure at this point). This math makes me sad in ways more than one.

and hey did I consider that sliding made the pickup range higher?
also old carrier range in radius on the ground was 6.633 meters so IDK can be wrong tho

Chao, The Roaring Lion

Edited October 6, 2016 by TheRoaringLion

[Azrael]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

Theres was no need to lower the range, let alone by such a large amount.

This. I've yet to see anybody give a convincing reason why this had to happen. People are acting like getting drops that you've already earned is somehow abusive, unless getting them is at least somewhat annoying. RNG has blessed me with a drop, why must we build some inconvenience into getting it? Sure, entire map vacuum would be op, and allow for abuse. But 12m vacuum was not and did not. It simply alleviated an inconvenience caused by the rather odd fact that loot just sprays all over the place when people die.

It's almost as if everybody is holding their loot in their hands all the time, and when they die they do that silly "throw your hands up" thing that you sometimes see in movies, and all their money and resources just go flying. There's no real reason why things should work that way, but they do. And that makes picking it up really inconvenient, so we all want vacuum to make it so this isn't a "trash detail" simulator where we don't even get those nifty sticks with the claw on the end. Why did that need to be nerfed?

Edited October 6, 2016 by Azrael
typo

[Brian_Paone]

11 hours ago, TimSin-EGT- said:

Hi,

so vacuum is now built-in all sentinels. Great change and needed.

The topic of this discussion is the range nerf of vacuum.

I am interested in hearing arguments PRO vacuum range nerf! How is it better now with 6m range as it would be with 12m?

 

Edit: Sorry, but i got none. Added a question mark in title.

Arguments?

1.

How is slowing down in a fast paced shooter game a "good thing"?

2.

Vacuum could be built-in in companions or warframes also.

3.

"I didn't use carrier at all." or "That 6m range is still enough."

It's not an argument for how 6m is BETTER THAN 12m!

Honestly, I'd rather address your counterpoints - in order, top to bottom:

* To be fair, I don't slow down at all. Maybe YOU do, but your experience will not be everyone's. As a largely melee player, my loot is hand-delivered.

* Sentinels are the logical choice for a testing rollout (as this is) because they would share more code with Carrier and Carrier Prime. Companions and Warframes appear to have much different code, and therefore would likely require quite a bit more developer attention to nail down... and people HAVE been chomping at the bit for TWW, so maybe they didn't have the time at present to implement that. (Or maybe they tried and it didn't work as well?)

* On this third point, this tells me you're not exactly interested in discussion. You have your own conclusion already drawn and do not appear willing to revisit it. That's your call to make; I won't hate on you for it. But it seems silly to consider this a discussion when it very much looks like an argument instead.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

8 minutes ago, kuliise said:

I'm still not a fan of things tied to mastery, but since I'm MR21 that'd be quite nice for me if it did happen. :P

The problem of mastery is that we don't have a gameplay attached to levelling. It's just a boring "gotta max the all" grind of your mission of choice over and over again in hopes that it will unlock something you gonna like in the future. 
"Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?"

[Eliakin]

I would have no problem if all the sentinels had the same range of the old carrier, but lower range so will leave the grind even more boring.

Warframe is an action game, a lot of people do not want to be walking around the map looking for ammunition and orb energy even when you have such a survival mission.

[Azrael]

7 minutes ago, Azrael said:

It's almost as if everybody is holding their loot in their hands all the time, and when they die they do that silly "throw your hands up" thing that you sometimes see in movies, and all their money and resources just go flying. There's no real reason why things should work that way, but they do. And that makes picking it up really inconvenient, so we all want vacuum to make it so this isn't a "trash detail" simulator where we don't even get those nifty sticks with the claw on the end. Why did that need to be nerfed?

Having written that, I now have an image of all the grineer running around with ferrite and one nuerode and 10 credits just sitting in their hands, and when you shoot them they throw it up in the air like a dove at a wedding. This game just got 1000% better for me.  :)

 

*Edit: this is topical, I think:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/YW6PNy2.mp4

certified safe for work, apparently I can't imbed this.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Azrael

[VocalMagic]

6 hours ago, Spot. said:

I'm don't entirely understand what you mean by this.

In order to get to the loot, people are sprinting, sliding, or bullet jumping.
These actions have momentum.
Transitioning from this action to another action is not instant.
Instant pickups will not solve the problem, it hides the symptoms.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

3 minutes ago, TheRoaringLion said:

and hey did I consider that sliding made the pickup range higher?
also old carrier range in radius on the ground was 6.633 meters so IDK can be wrong tho

I believe it was radius and not diameter. But I might be wrong myself. But it was radius as far as I remember. 12m radius. *looked it up* Yup, it was radius and not diameter. 

[-BM-Mitz]

6 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Wow, you pick up all your loot by hand and doesn't afraid of anything.

People who don't feel like running around to pick up loot aren't "spoiled," and you aren't "diligent" for choosing not to use Carrier.

I'm not afraid cause I don't run after every single piece of loot and I don't stop still to wave at bombards. I never claimed I was special but in my experience it's completely playable with this change. If it wasn't, I'd support you but so far seems manageable so I request you TRY TO get used to the change before complaining. It's certainly not as bad as you make it sound. 

[AngryBAsian]

28 minutes ago, Separius said:

There are no legit pro nerf arguments, guy, because the opinions of people who get bothered by an aspect, of how others play the game, that doesn't remotely affect them one bit, the opinions of these people can and should safely be dismissed.

To the aforementioned people: How does me picking up my loot in any way whatsoever affect you negatively? How? Loot is shared. What I get doesn't steal from you.
I don't give a whatever how you pick your goddamn loot up, it doesn't affect me, and neiter does my way of looting affect you in any way. It just doesn't.

I usually dont "give a whatever" about how you loot but in certain cases i do "give a whatever" about how you loot in certain cases. I literally had one guy took extra 20 minutes loot Ng things and picking them up one by one , leaving us nothing to do but wait, sit on top of the boss, hump the boss whatever, untill that guy finished is looting. Hell I defintely "gave a whatever" about it and took my sweet little time (30min) dancing infront of the door before the boss room. Why didnt we just leave? Cuz we got some hella good loots! And then everyone  started "giving a whatever" and started taking turns dancing and in the end the boss run took 2hr more than it should have. End of story

moral of the story is we really dont "give a whatever" how you collect resources. But we do "give a whatever" about how you are complaning about us complaning about something when we really rnt. We DONT give a whatever about how YOU loot your stuff. We DO give a whatever about how WE loot OUR stuff.

[Nep_Blanc]

1 minute ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

The problem of mastery is that we don't have a gameplay attached to levelling. It's just a boring "gotta max the all" grind of your mission of choice over and over again in hopes that it will unlock something you gonna like in the future. 
"Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?"

I have seen that quote Farcry pleb XD anyways its Boring if you only do it for the mastery if you do it for the fun to have with friends and max your weapons also while mastery leveling weapons is also nice, I gotta say I mostly have had every weapon and most of them are pretty unique and well made, not all of them fit my playstyle but hey I like the diversity.
And new content gives me something to do and well TBH if it rewards positively why should you not engage in the game and play more? I don't know what this whine about mastery rank is because it is a system that rewards people that play longer and do more, if you don't want this don't do it but consider the downside of it.
In my eyes perfectly fine if you do something like this it gives people goals and well if you want to stay on MR 14 you already benefit of the additional range.
And Consider that MR 14 is not that hard to achieve.
Its the same as for me with the mastery that helps with modding for your frames weapons and much more I love it that I spent a lot of time in the game to do that and have the benefit of it.

just saying if you don't want to spend time for it well thats your choice and it does not make mastery rank rewards bad it makes them good in the sense that people play the game more because they get goals and rewards for that.

all that effort has to result in something right?

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[Brian_Paone]

1 minute ago, Separius said:

I didn't have anything to add so I just decided to be rude.

It's cool. It's the internet. I'm used to it. ;)

[VerinESC]

6 hours ago, Tsoe said:

its not bad as it is... ( i never use carrier before the update)

 

maybe 7.5m  would plz the whiners?

 

The only thing.. i would prefer it to be be something like Warframe itself have 5m range atraction and sentinel add a 3m buff

for kavats

the kavats would have 5m around it while Warframe keep his 5m

Sorry to say this but I don't think people who haven't used Carrier should weigh in on this issue 

[Azrael]

11 hours ago, armedpoop said:

Hold on, ill get you some quotes in a while, will edit this post

-snip-

I have more if anyone wants to see more. This is abysmal honestly. 

Lol at "the core PvE experience of "picking up your loot"."

Since when was walking over things the core experience of PvE?

[Nep_Blanc]

9 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I believe it was radius and not diameter. But I might be wrong myself. But it was radius as far as I remember. 12m radius. *looked it up* Yup, it was radius and not diameter. 

I did take a look to the carrier vacuum page and yes it is radius not Diameter XD, although it seemed that Carrier had even more huge range then said.
With my math you can try to see how big the full sphere is if you have 12 meters ground pickup range.

Although I do miss a variable to fully calculate it, eh I need my virtual calculators with representations

and that is substantially more XD

Chao, The Roaring Lion

Edited October 6, 2016 by TheRoaringLion

[CandyDragon]

Gathering loot is not engaging. Nerfing the vacuum range for all sentinels after establishing it for so long on carrier, just seems spiteful. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Nariala
grammar, its early

[BattledOne]

6 hours ago, VocalMagic said:

A meter and a half does not make a discernible difference.

Vaccums is 3D, that 1.5 almost doubles ur volume.

[Meliq]

9 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I have a feeling part of DE's reasoning had something to do with Bladestorm... 

 

Something that might not be a problem, if they could ever figure out a way to rework that ability. But every attempt they try they decide is too overpowered, or gimmicky or broken and they still haven't decided on anything. 

This is probably true - the ability for a sentinel to grab energy during the Bladestorm has a lot to do with the spam-ability of Bladestorm.  If the Sentinel is picking less up - then the enegry obtained will be less.

 

Of course the balance to this is to Bladestorm tight groups...

[robbybe01234]

The change for vacuum is this to me:

Fact: 6 is less than 12.

Fact: My movement and flow through a mission is unchanged.

Fact: 6 is good enough to keep enemies in sights while identifying and strafing to pickups with peripheral vision. 

Opinion: "this is a huge nerf and the game is destroyed!"

[Inglu]

25 minutes ago, Azrael said:

Lol at "the core PvE experience of "picking up your loot"."

Since when was walking over things the core experience of PvE?

Even better is bringing skill into the argument. The skill of maneuvering over pick ups. Really?

Don't see that as much, but it is highly amusing.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Inglu
wording

[AngryBAsian]

9 minutes ago, Azrael said:

Lol at "the core PvE experience of "picking up your loot"."

Since when was walking over things the core experience of PvE?

You see some people have a ritual of collecting resources. First they stare at the resource for 10mins. Then they start fapping to if it is a rare resource. When they are done with that they hump the respurce for 5min. 

Since they do this to most resources, they can only do 1 missions per day and 99% of their mission is collecting resources and doing their rituals. So you can clearly see its a vital part of THeir gameplay. 

simple folks like us, we just run the mission see what we get and move on.

Edited October 6, 2016 by AngryBAsian

[Brian_Paone]

4 minutes ago, Separius said:

Sorry - I'm having a bad day, and I just feel like taking it out on other people. I realize it's a shortcoming, and I appreciate your tolerance in this regard. Thank you.

No worries, kid.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Brian_Paone

[Meliq]

1 minute ago, robbybe01234 said:

The change for vacuum is this to me:

Fact: 6 is less than 12.

Fact: My movement and flow through a mission is unchanged.

Fact: 6 is good enough to keep enemies in sights while identifying and strafing to pickups with peripheral vision. 

Opinion: "this is a huge nerf and the game is destroyed!"

Fact 2 is a 'some' not 'all' fact
Fact 3 is a 'some' not 'all' fact

which means that the facts table looks more like this

All Players know that 6m is less than 12m
Some players feel that the flow of the mission is unchanged
Some players feel that it is good enough

Basically this means that there are those who would disagree with points 2 and three but would certainly support the conclusion.