Do you think ash will still be a good frame after the bladestorm rework?

[Babellon]

1 minute ago, Dragazer said:

Not sure if we play the same frame but yes Smoke screen does in fact make you stop all movement for second to throw the bomb, While Loki's invis can be cast mid air while sliding with shorter animation time, you can go check the difference yourself.

Shuriken is just a worthless ability at base its a complete waste of energy at high levels when you can just use your weapons

wait...that's the complaint, that literal millisecond cast animation?

Shuriken is effective all the way up as it reduces armor on mobs it doesn't kill. its also very good on turrets, cameras, and door beams. No, it's not meant to kill everything or replace the weapons, that's what blade storm is for.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Babellon

[Dragazer]

3 minutes ago, Babellon said:

wait...that's the complaint, that literal millisecond cast animation?

it matters outside of mercury when enemies can one shot you.

[Dragazer]

6 minutes ago, Babellon said:

Shuriken is effective all the way up as it reduces armor on mobs it doesn't kill. its also very good on turrets, cameras, and door beams. No, it's not meant to kill everything or replace the weapons, that's what blade storm is for.

Which requires an augment, needing an augment to make an ability somewhat usefully is terrible game design. The ability should actually be decent by itself and not require band aid mods to fix it

Edited October 23, 2016 by Dragazer

[Babellon]

I do not bullsh**....32 power cost. and if you're getting one shotted outside of mercury you are doing something severely wrong. Please stop giving misinformation. I use ash in survivals for 1h30m with one other person. Nothing one shots you unless  you let it.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Babellon

[Heckzu]

12 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Shuriken is just a worthless ability at base its a complete waste of energy at high levels when you can just use your weapons

I'm sorry, what weapons can ignore all armor, again?

[Heckzu]

17 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

 

Edited October 23, 2016 by Heckzu
Accidental triple post on phone due to bug

[Heckzu]

15 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

 

Edited October 23, 2016 by Heckzu
Forum bugged on phone and triple posted

[Babellon]

This is my standard build. when I'm not using master thief to loot. If I want master thief I take out constitution and drop my smoke to 12.3 seconds. regardless its effective and plenty of time to do anything I want. I've never been one shot by a mob on ash, ever. That cast animation in no way impairs your ability to fight, or delays combat in any fashion. In fact that stagger is part of the benefit when you cast it in a group of high end mobs as it bounces them all around you,,,for 10 meters.

 

[Babellon]

5 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Good job, atleast you know how to post a screenshot, so whats your point?

Invis with the same mods gets 28.62 sec duration at just 38 power cost

along with a faster animation that can be cast while in movement

 

 

 

My point is you don't know what you're talking about while making a complaint about a power you apparently don't use. This is how we end up with bad decisions and game play getting messed up, feedback that is not accurate to the actual game play. That's what I'm talking about.

You're making a comparison to loki,,,,who cares if loki gets a longer duration...Loki cannot KIll an entire room with a button press. I go invisible for 12-19 seconds, and slaughter everything, loki goes invisible for 28 seconds and still has to run around and manually kill mobs. what I lose in duration I make up for in mass murder.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Babellon

[Heckzu]

4 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

4x cp

kavats

slash status weapons

Corrosive status weapons to a degree

"Shuriken is just a worthless ability at base its a complete waste of energy at high levels when you can just use your weapons"

 

I'm sorry did you forget how to read again?

Band-aid mods shouldn't have to be required to fix terrible abilities 

 

You'll never get 4x CP in PUGs, and there's no reason to use Ash on coordinated team missions where 4x CP is needed.

Kavat armor strip is RNG.

Slash proc is also RNG, and doesn't count for all of the weapon's damage. In fact, slash as a damage type deals reduced damage to armor.

Corrosive weapons take quite a good number of shots to strip 100% of armor so it can't be done in the same time it takes to throw a shuriken.

I see no problem with using an augment. If seeking shuriken were built into the ability, it would be too op. The only non-augmented ability that can strip 100% of armor is a 250% power strength Avalanche. Just having one mod in your Ash build with at least 143% strength (which you'll have anyway because everyone knows every Ash player builds strength for when they bladestorm) will give you an ability comparable to a high strength ultimate ability.

[Babellon]

4 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

My point is that someone needs to brush up on their basic math skills b4 making a statement on abilities. With the same build Loki is not going to get 18 seconds while ash gets 14.30

It looks like your reading comprehension is just as terrible as your math.  

 

I'm saying its irrelevant. you're debating numbers. I'm talking about functionality. You're saying smoke screen is ineffective because it doesn't last as long as lokis invisibility. I'm saying it doesn't have to, and a person who knows how to use ash knows that.

[Babellon]

4 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

You see the problem is your "mass murder"  ability starts falling off at around high levels Especially with infested healers and disruptors pretty much disabling dmg powers.

Making weapons the only viable way to kill

While on the other hand, Loki's abilities never fall off, while further being supplemented by his augment allowing Loki and his team to safely kill enemies with their weapons.

Please get off mercury and actually get into some high levels b4 making any more statements  

at around high numbers? like 100+ high numbers you mean. so for the entirety of the game aside from 1 hour into survival ash devastates everything but that's coincidental. You're the one who thinks you get one shotted after mercury. I bet you play groups too don't you? do you get one shotted off mercury while in 4 man teams? I don't get killed generally at all, and I solo everything there is other than those 8 man raids they did a while back.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Babellon

[Dragazer]

3 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

and there's no reason to use Ash on coordinated team missions where 4x CP is needed.

 

You don't see a problem with that? Where cp just makes ash completely irrelevant because he has abosultely nothing else going for him?

Kavat armor strip is not rng

Slash status is reliable when actually built for

atm shuriken has honestly no use outside the augment, im not saying to just slap the augment on to the base ability, but to give the ability something else worth using.   

 

[Dragazer]

6 minutes ago, Babellon said:

at around high numbers? like 100+ high numbers you mean. so for the entirety of the game aside from 1 hour into survival ash devastates everything but that's coincidental. You're the one who thinks you get one shotted after mercury.

See the problem is weapons have been doing the exact same thing for years, without being limited by units like nullifiers, ancient disruptors, and healers.

Add in 4x cp or any other reliable armor shredders, and it just becomes completely obsolete.

The mercury comment was just a hyperbole for level 100s where you really will get one shotted 

Edited October 23, 2016 by Dragazer

[Heckzu]

25 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

You don't see a problem with that? Where cp just makes ash completely irrelevant because he has abosultely nothing else going for him?

Kavat armor strip is not rng

Slash status is reliable when actually built for

atm shuriken has honestly no use outside the augment, im not saying to just slap the augment on to the base ability, but to give the ability something else worth using.   

 

Ash has other things going for him: smokescreen and teleport.

Description of smokescreen:

Spoiler

• INFO

• Ash throws down a smoke bomb that staggers enemies for a short duration within a radius of 10 meters. Ash becomes untargetable for 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 seconds.
  • Duration is affected by Power Duration.
  • Stagger radius is affected by Power Range.
  • Stealth Damage Multipliers are applied to melee attacks. Coming into physical contact with the enemy while attacking will temporarily remove the damage bonus.
• Even though Ash is untargetable, enemies will continue to attack near his last known location, and will make attempts to retaliate when harmed.
• Does not make Ash silent. Firing an unsuppressed weapon while under the effects of Smoke Screen will still alert nearby enemies to your presence.
• Hides Ash from Security Cameras which prevents them from activating laser barriers.
• Smoke Screen will also apply to any equipped companion.
• Ash can not be knocked down or staggered during the cast animation.
• Can only be used on the ground.

Smoke Screen is actually very useful. It staggers enemies on top of making you invisible, basically a Get Out of Jail card. On top of that, Stealth Damage Multipliers are applied to melee attacks, meaning if you're a melee player, Smoke Screen gives you a huge buff in damage.

Teleport:

Spoiler

• INFO

• Ash teleports to a target within 20 / 45 / 45 / 60 meters.
  • Targeting range is affected by Power Range.
  • Can be used to teleport to enemies, allies, hostages, cryopods, and mobile defense data terminals.
  • If the target is an enemy, it will be staggered and left vulnerable to a Finisher attack. If the enemy cannot be attacked with a Finisher (either due to positioning or the enemy type), it will be susceptible to Stealth Damage Multipliers from melee attacks for the duration of the stagger. As with Smoke Screen, coming into physical contact with the enemy while attacking will temporarily remove the damage bonus.
• Requires direct line of sight to a small part of the target.
• Can be used in the air.
• Note that using Teleport on Wardens will alert them to your presence and remove the massive stealth attack bonus received from normal stealth attacks.

Teleport allows you to use finishers on enemies who are affected by finishers, with or without the augment. The augment only serves to make this interaction automated, so that you don't need to press 'E' after casting Teleport, so it isn't needed to proc Covert Lethality's instant kill. This means that you can assassinate most enemies of any level as Ash by using Teleport and a Covert Lethality dagger.

DE also never finalized their changes on Bladestorm, so you can't call it a nerf if you don't know what the change exactly is. This is sort of like the outrage from Mesa's rework, where Mesa lost the ability to AFK and still kill everything in a 50m radius but in return now has the highest DPS of any damage frame, but people still cry to this day, "DE DESTROYED MESA, SHE'S UNPLAYABLE NOW."

[Dragazer]

9 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

Ash has other things going for him: smokescreen and teleport.

Description of smokescreen:

  Reveal hidden contents

• INFO

• Ash throws down a smoke bomb that staggers enemies for a short duration within a radius of 10 meters. Ash becomes untargetable for 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 seconds.
  • Duration is affected by Power Duration.
  • Stagger radius is affected by Power Range.
  • Stealth Damage Multipliers are applied to melee attacks. Coming into physical contact with the enemy while attacking will temporarily remove the damage bonus.
• Even though Ash is untargetable, enemies will continue to attack near his last known location, and will make attempts to retaliate when harmed.
• Does not make Ash silent. Firing an unsuppressed weapon while under the effects of Smoke Screen will still alert nearby enemies to your presence.
• Hides Ash from Security Cameras which prevents them from activating laser barriers.
• Smoke Screen will also apply to any equipped companion.
• Ash can not be knocked down or staggered during the cast animation.
• Can only be used on the ground.

Smoke Screen is actually very useful. It staggers enemies on top of making you invisible, basically a Get Out of Jail card. On top of that, Stealth Damage Multipliers are applied to melee attacks, meaning if you're a melee player, Smoke Screen gives you a huge buff in damage.

Teleport:

  Reveal hidden contents

• INFO

• Ash teleports to a target within 20 / 45 / 45 / 60 meters.
  • Targeting range is affected by Power Range.
  • Can be used to teleport to enemies, allies, hostages, cryopods, and mobile defense data terminals.
  • If the target is an enemy, it will be staggered and left vulnerable to a Finisher attack. If the enemy cannot be attacked with a Finisher (either due to positioning or the enemy type), it will be susceptible to Stealth Damage Multipliers from melee attacks for the duration of the stagger. As with Smoke Screen, coming into physical contact with the enemy while attacking will temporarily remove the damage bonus.
• Requires direct line of sight to a small part of the target.
• Can be used in the air.
• Note that using Teleport on Wardens will alert them to your presence and remove the massive stealth attack bonus received from normal stealth attacks.

Teleport allows you to use finishers on enemies who are affected by finishers, with or without the augment. The augment only serves to make this interaction automated, so that you don't need to press 'E' after casting Teleport, so it isn't needed to proc Covert Lethality's instant kill. This means that you can assassinate most enemies of any level as Ash by using Teleport and a Covert Lethality dagger.

DE also never finalized their changes on Bladestorm, so you can't call it a nerf if you don't know what the change exactly is. This is sort of like the outrage from Mesa's rework, where Mesa lost the ability to AFK and still kill everything in a 50m radius but in return now has the highest DPS of any damage frame, but people still cry to this day, "DE DESTROYED MESA, SHE'S UNPLAYABLE NOW."

You might wanna brush up on the mechanics. Sure there's a stagger, but the animation locks you in for that stagger duration rendering its benefits moot. Plus enemies outside the stagger radius get free shots on you because you are still animation locked and they aren't staggered

Think bombards and napalms Aoe missiles and DoT  

And no, the stealth dmg multiplier is largely irrelevant now, due to losing the bonus dmg on the 1st hit or losing it on alerted enemies you touch which inevitable happens due to the very nature of melee getting up close.

While Tele+CL seems really good on paper, you have to realize this is a game with hordes of mobs, it just isn't viable to going around one enemy at a time.

True but with what was shown is most definitely a nerf in the state they showed on the devstream. We obviously don't know the final product but we can still give our opinions on what was shown.

Giving our input on even unfinalized products makes a difference best example: the whole vacuum 3 mod split fiasco  

 

Edited October 23, 2016 by Dragazer

[Yablo]

Ashe was and will stay viable, he will just take some actual effort to get kills.
What DE showed was something that was still very much in a development stage so what you saw isn't persé what we are gonna get.

To me that version of Ashe looked a little clunky, I hope that they will give him the same reticle to tag as Mesa's peacemaker, which also gets effected by range.
Maybe that will make it less clunky to tag multiple enemies at once.

[TheGoodDarius]

12 hours ago, spatakiller123 said:

As a huge fan of ash, I have developed some concerns for his incoming rework.If you didnt know already, the rework will turn bladestorm into an ability where pressing 4 will toggle it on allowing you to mark enemies for his bladestorm, an enemy can be marked multiple times.Pressing 4 again will activate his ability and the rest is as usual.

Now, I like to run ash for solo missions because his invisibility and bladestorm abilities are great. However, since I like to use bladestorm as a "oh sh*t" moment ability, the whole marking enemies thing might be a big problem. I'm thinking maybe going invisible then sweeping the screen might be decent but I have my doubts and it also doesn't help that 90% of people are calling this a massive nerf. 

So,will ash still be viable for a bladestorm build? Should I convert to a fatal teleport build? Or should I just switch to Valkyr or something...

"Do you think ash will still be a good frame after the bladestorm rework?" 

Yes. The real question is, will the players realize that? Probably no. 

If you like going in solo missions, I think the rework will help you use bladestorm for a stealthier approach. And if S#&$ should hit the proverbial fan, remember that Ash has still Smoke Bomb, which doesn't simply make him invisible, it interrupts enemies' actions which is very useful. Also, if you have Fatal Teleport augment mod, you can pretty much do something similar to the old (and current) bladestorm, so don't worry to much. 

 

[Tricky5hift]

Keep in mind that Ash's new reworked 4 is still being worked on.

What you saw in the devstream is only what they have so far.

The actual numbers will be looked into and maybe other aspects will be tweaked.

My guess is that Ash will still be perfectly viable as are most frames that have been reworked.

[ashrah]

as is never been op....but hey lets nerf it... is anyone even seen what 2 equinox can do 1 day forma 1 night forma....wen u  pre stack maim... for 9ver 8 mil dmg in 45 meter raidius.....this is why f2p games fail big time   u invaste in one thing and u end up with something u are not interest in....

 

[Shad0wWatcher]

I can't say for sure, we've only seen a WIP of the bladestorm rework. So i'll reserve my judgement till all the facts come out.

[Tricky5hift]

1 hour ago, ashrah said:

as is never been op....but hey lets nerf it... is anyone even seen what 2 equinox can do 1 day forma 1 night forma....wen u  pre stack maim... for 9ver 8 mil dmg in 45 meter raidius.....this is why f2p games fail big time   u invaste in one thing and u end up with something u are not interest in....

 

Lol you can't get 9 mil damage by just pressing 4.

Your own weapon has to deal 9 mil damage and that can take some time.

This is how you misinform people.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Tricky5hift

[Midrib]

1 hour ago, ashrah said:

as is never been op....but hey lets nerf it... is anyone even seen what 2 equinox can do 1 day forma 1 night forma....wen u  pre stack maim... for 9ver 8 mil dmg in 45 meter raidius.....this is why f2p games fail big time   u invaste in one thing and u end up with something u are not interest in....

 

Except Ash isn't being nerfed for his damage, hes being nerfed for how stupid he does his damage, DE is even increasing BS's damage.

Equinox can wipe half the map with her ultimate, but it requires that you charge her ultimate up with kills, a thing that Ash never had to do.

They reworked Mesa's ultimate because it consisted of you pressing 4 and taping your LMB, not because of the damage, biggest proof that it wasn't the damage is the fact that DE buffed mesa's ultimate and made it scale off secondary mods.

Can we at least think before posting ignorant statements.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Midrib

[ashrah]

16 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Lol you can't get 9 mil damage by just pressing 4.

Your own weapon has to deal 9 mil damage and that can take some time.

This is how you misinform people.

u stack dmg......its not missinform...... ppl see how things going...ppl are just tierd of things...and stop to care

[Tricky5hift]

50 minutes ago, ashrah said:

u stack dmg......its not missinform...... ppl see how things going...ppl are just tierd of things...and stop to care

Yeah but the point is it doesn't happen instantly like Ash's 4.