Naamah, new player perspective

[Solinear]

So, I started playing Warframe quite a while back and my son got me to try it again recently.  I've been having a decent amount of fun.  I could dump out of a solo game if I needed to without negative impact (important when you have a family), I've been able to complete most of the game up to this point solo and I've figured out several things about the game, like to use the items that double your points for a warframe/weapon.  I've done decent, occasionally dying and needing to update my tactics, but overall doing pretty decent.

Then I got to the Naamah mission.  I cleared through most of it without issue, then I hit the raptors.  These are, without a doubt, the most difficult boss I've run into.  I've never had to fight a boss more than once without feeling like I'm making progress.  But not only is killing one nearly impossible solo, but the item they drop to proceed goes away in ten seconds!  This might be fine if you only had to get one, but you have to get THREE!!!  So I have to kill a nearly impossible to kill (solo) boss, but I also have to grab an item that they drop, race to their spawn point and drop the item in less than ten seconds?!?!

These games are meant to have difficulty *progression*.  Handing me a boss that deals out ten times the damage of any others in the same timeframe (OMG, these do an insane amount of damage), then telling me I have to engage in a difficult rushed task and then do it three times?

Considering everything I know about this game at this point, I don't think even blowing $450 on premium content for the game is going to make a difference.  This change in difficulty is outside of what many would consider a reasonable level.  If you want large groups to play this, then you should require group activity to even unlock the boss and complete the mission.

I'm going to basically finish up all the missions I can at this point, but if I have unlocked everything but this mission that is a barrier to further gameplay, then I'm likely to quit.  Forced co-op play in a game whose grouping default is "friends only" is contradiction.  A difficulty change of many multiples in a single mission, is unreasonable, particularly when everything was easy to solo up to that point.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with continued difficulty progression.  But when I look around and see people talking about how they come into this mission with 2-3 primes and getting their clocks cleaned in short order and kicking the daylights out of later missions, there is something wrong.  Make missions group only.... do whatever you need to make the game more social, but creating missions that are impossible without group play after an entirely soloable game is just ridiculous.  Create huge bonuses for group play.  But putting up a brick wall that says "Go make some friends who are in the mid-late game -  you know, people who skated past this mission to continue..." is not good strategy for new players in a top heavy game.

Please fix this mission.

Before anyone says it... I did go get help (from people who got past this before it got insane) and they said to go find people in the late game to help me, because it was insanely difficult now - one said "broken".

Edited October 29, 2016 by Solinear

[VampirePirate]

Yeah I know your pain.

That boss used to be reasonable and I have no idea why they altered it in this.

[GinKenshin]

well, if I would make it a bit easier, there won't be any enemies around, just the raptors and the 10 sec cooldown would start only when you actually pick it up. 

[ograzzt]

New Raptor fight is harder than before, but nowhere near to impossible. And of course it's soloable. The problem is each time you fail to drop the bomb to the pit he become stronger. Do it fast and everything will go much easier. What frame and weapon are you using btw? All starter frames should kill him pretty fast with electric shield/exalted blade/magnetize.

[Brachion]

I find the new fight significantly easier than the old one. The old Raptor was invulnerable half the time, and did absurd amounts of damage. The new one seems much more manageable to me.

[Jakorak]

The Raptor bossfight can be soloed. In fact i'd say it's easier to tackle alone, than with a group. However, that is with completely broken tactics:

Spoiler

An invisibility warframe with whatever long range high damage weapon you have available usually does the trick, combined with using the rafters at the top middle of the room to get almost completely above the first raptor type.

I completely agree, the Raptor bossfight is an obscene jump in difficulty to everything else in the game. Even Sentients aren't that bad if you bring weaponry with differentiated elemental setups.

[appleiron]

The constant bombardment is kinda a nuisance, but can be avoided by spamming that bullet jump from one side of the room to the other. 
Maybe try different Warframes, I mean that is the point of the game right? Farm up a new frame so you can progress. Banshee is a good option, just keep silence up to keep enemies from wrecking you and cast sonar so you can make raptors drop like flies. Or even Nova, slowed down enemies and your damage hits harder. 

[Omnipower]

You guys are saying easy but he is stating that from a "NEW" player perspective meaning he doesnt have maxed out mods flowing out his wazoo or every warframe and weapon at his disposal if anything i agree raptor hits almost as hard if not just as hard kela with her fun rockets making me ponder why is he near as hard as kela.

[Dreddeth]

I think the "drop the bomb into the vent, and by the way the 5-second timer starts when it drops rather than when you pick it up" part is bulls*** on par with Vay Hek, but that's the only real problem I have.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Dreddeth

[Katinka]

30 minutes ago, appleiron said:

Or even Nova,

Do you not see a problem with that plan?  Farming Nova to beat Raptor when Nova drops from Raptor...   I guess you could try for Nova Prime if you've got the right Relics and access to appropriate fissures...  which a new player without a fully unlocked starchart might not...

I'd recommend Mag, using Magnetize.  I have solo'd it with her but I did have multi-forma'd weapons...  I think Raptor has always been one of the harder boss fights because it hits so hard.  That and the Hyenas are probably my most troublesome fights.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Katinka

[appleiron]

5 hours ago, Katinka said:

Do you not see a problem with that plan?  Farming Nova to beat Raptor when Nova drops from Raptor...   

Shh >⌂<   Actually forgot that bosses drop Warframe parts :S

[Arrectius]

The fight now is annoying, i think it should be fine if they increase the timer to 15 or start counting once u pick up. For sorties can remain the same for "challenge".

[Chipputer]

On 10/29/2016 at 5:57 PM, Solinear said:

see people talking about how they come into this mission with 2-3 primes and getting their clocks cleaned in short order

I think you have a major misconception about what Prime items really are.

The boss needs tweaks (the bomb timer is entirely unforgiving), but it is far from impossible, even with level appropriate gear. The issue probably lies somewhere in your modding setup, but there's nothing you can do about that that won't require farming and time investment.

[Solinear]

I'm new - Mastery Level 4 (was 3 at the time).  I was able to kill one Raptor, but it was early enough in the battle that I didn't know what to do yet - Lotus hadn't told me and I don't usually chase after guides, I like to figure it out.  I have level 30 potato'd Excalibur (just got all the parts for Oberon and he still has >2.5 days left) with a potato'd Dual Ethers and pretty much spam the epic non-stop.  It's been a day or two and my build is probably a lot more solid now.  That being said, I was lucky and finished that location while it was an Alert and it didn't require me killing any raptors.  I haven't went back to do this again.

But my issue is the scale of difficulty - the game goes from "*yawn*... try twice and you'll get them the second time" to "OMFGTHEREISNOWAYICANDOTHIS!!!!!"

This should be a later boss and there should be more difficulty buildup to it, not "You can't complete this without a near perfect build".  BTW, I did roll/bullet jump all over the place.  His spread for the missiles was far enough apart that he still hit me with one or two, which meant that I was knocked down and all the flunkies shot the daylights out of me... which meant my shields were relatively low... and the next barrage smacked me and now I'm getting shot without any shields frequently.

Maybe there should be an "easy version" of this boss at this point, then a tough one like this on Uranus or Neptune.  Because seriously - every boss up to this point (including the General to get to Saturn) was kinda easy.  I think I had to do a single fight more than twice once and the third time pounded them into the dirt.  I did the Raptors a good four times and I actually never even did as good as the first time, when I burned through all my energy to get the first kill and couldn't get a second kill.  Remember, my statement wasn't "OMG, I'm a noob, make the game easier!!!" it was "OMG, the difficulty went up WAY too much in one fight!!" and I stand by it.

Primes are usually better (from looking at the stats) versions of other gear and most of the time when I do a group-up for a defense or survival mission, the players who are destroying stuff like madmen pretty much have all prime items.  You also can't buy many primes outside of the auctions, so I assume they actually earned the items.

[JalakBali]

I agree that the mission could be a major pain for newbies. They could simply make the bomb lasts 30 seconds before detonation and then it detonates the moment you dropped it at the right location. Raptors are too much pain to do without cheesing it with an invis frame since the annoying part is the race to drop the bomb while dealing with hordes of enemies. And for new players who don't have god-tier weapons yet, killing them close to their spawn point will be impossible and they have to rely on luck that the Raptor sticks close enough to its spawn point.

[tbeest]

You don't necessarily have to make friends. A quick "H Naamah Raptor boss fight* or "LF taxi Naamah" in the recruiting channel will do wonders, usually. Not saying it's the best social awesome kind of way of progression but it'll help you do the fight.

I personally have no problem fighting those the Raptor(s) and the battery just requires some quick bullet jumps, but I've been playing for a while..

Edited November 3, 2016 by tbeest