Commanders need to be reworked

[Bipp]

3 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

I never get hit by Ballistas, though?  Their beam stops tracking for a short time before they fire, so unless I goof I never get hit by it (in the worst case where I can't dodge to the side, I roll toward the shot and it either goes over me or hits me for 75% reduced damage.)  This is similar to how people tell me that Ancients and Scorpions 360 noscope them all the time, while I have absolutely no problem dodging them effortlessly so long as I am aware of their presence (and often even by pure reaction without knowing they were there beforhand.)

No no, I'm not talking about the bullet. I'm talking about the laser.

Yes it's possible to dodge the bullet but the laser tracks almost inhumanly well considering the kinds of acrobatics we can pull off.

Same thing with Ancients and Scorpions. Yes it's very possible to dodge them

but

When I'm bullet jumping, under the influence of Volt's Speed, and I roll in mid air and go RIGHT over the Ancient so it's no longer facing me but STILL get hooked I see a titanic problem there.

[RealPandemonium]

2 minutes ago, Keybopsef said:

No no, I'm not talking about the bullet. I'm talking about the laser.

Yes it's possible to dodge the bullet but the laser tracks almost inhumanly well considering the kinds of acrobatics we can pull off.

Same thing with Ancients and Scorpions. Yes it's very possible to dodge them

but

When I'm bullet jumping, under the influence of Volt's Speed, and I roll in mid air and go RIGHT over the Ancient so it's no longer facing me but STILL get hooked I see a titanic problem there.

They lead their projectile, so it's a matter of changing direction at the right time.  Being in the roll animation also nullifies their hook's CC even if it hits you.  

That said, Commanders don't need to have that issue; the Ballista mechanic is a good fit for their ST and already exists, so it's a no-brainer if we want to go down that route.  

Edited November 10, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Bipp]

4 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

They lead their projectile, so it's a matter of changing direction at the right time.

That said, Commanders don't need to have that issue; the Ballista mechanic is a good fit for their ST and already exists, so it's a no-brainer if we want to go down that route.  

Right. But the way the Commander's ST seems to work in terms of how they're targeting us (in that it seems to be some instantaneous targeted ability instead of bullets with an accuracy cone), DE needs to have a look at their aim. Simply adding a telegraph and leaving it at that will only serve to further the madness, in my opinion.

"I'm dodging and doing all sorts but still getting teleported! Is it even possible to dodge it?"

edit: ancients and scorpions should not be able to lead their hooks to fire literally through their bodies backwards when they're locked in the direction they're facing. I can't aim a gun to shoot forwards but, at the last minute, decide I want to shoot backwards without actually turning and still expect the bullet to go backwards. I'd kill myself if that happened lol

Edited November 10, 2016 by Keybopsef

[RealPandemonium]

4 minutes ago, Keybopsef said:

Right. But the way the Commander's ST seems to work in terms of how they're targeting us (in that it seems to be some instantaneous targeted ability instead of bullets with an accuracy cone), DE needs to have a look at their aim. Simply adding a telegraph and leaving it at that will only serve to further the madness, in my opinion.

"I'm dodging and doing all sorts but still getting teleported! Is it even possible to dodge it?"

Lol, I said in my first post that it would be a projectile that could have poor tracking so that players could dodge it if they're paying attention.  Of course, adding a telegraph but making the player still unable to dodge would hardly be a fix.  Anyway, the current Ballista mechanic pretty much fulfills this role perfectly so that a straight port of it would probably be optimal at this point.  

[Bipp]

4 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Lol, I said in my first post that it would be a projectile that could have poor tracking so that players could dodge it if they're paying attention.  Of course, adding a telegraph but making the player still unable to dodge would hardly be a fix.  Anyway, the current Ballista mechanic pretty much fulfills this role perfectly so that a straight port of it would probably be optimal at this point.  

Ah, I missed that.

I also mentioned the laser specifically in my first post too :P

Back on topic, Scorches seem to have been toned down. Commanders are next in line cmon these moon missions are driving me nuts. Commanders everywhere

[RealPandemonium]

1 minute ago, Keybopsef said:

Ah, I missed that.

I also mentioned the laser specifically in my first post too :P

Back on topic, Scorches seem to have been toned down. Commanders are next in line cmon these moon missions are driving me nuts. Commanders everywhere

I don't even really mind the preponderance of Commanders there since it's the only thing that can remotely slow down a player at that stage.  

[KnightCole]

On 11/7/2016 at 11:32 PM, Nexecute said:

They're commanders, they should do something commandish.

Ancients give buffs, commanders should do something different.

How about...

They throw a flashbang just like they'd do with a grenade, blinding players looking in its general direction. This blind would wear off over around 6 seconds. The commander will then immediately have all grineer play super aggressively until the blind completely wears off.

or...

The commander visibly marks a player, having all grineer focus their damage on that one target, playing very aggressively.

Basically stun locking you(since, yes, a blind, where you cant see S#&$, is basically a stun), its as bad as the current switch teleport, since it does basically the same thing.  You basically cant do S#&$ and die....

Things like COmmanders need to go away, just like in Warface, the shield guys need to go away, adding nothing to the game but irritation.

[jfhsanseiIII]

On 10/11/2016 at 2:07 PM, AdunSaveMe said:

Every time I see someone bring up arguments as to why something could be changed, I see this silly fallacy response.

Seriously, you aren't making any arguments. You're just acting like everyone is complaining cus they can't smash buttons and win the game, which is completely false. That's not why. There are clearly listed reasons as to why, you're just choosing to ignore them.

You people do this all the time. I don't understand it. You're not making any points whatsoever, you're just saying everyone is wrong because they're bad and that nothing is flawed at all, completely ignoring any and all actual arguments. What does this bring to the discussion?

Except I never said any of that.  I said I enjoy the advantages given to them.  You are accusing me of a fallacy and at the same time using one of your own.  Having an enemy that offsets the players domination of the play field is a good thing in my opinion.  I think the argument players need to make is one of power creep and not the mechanic.  The mechanic is fun and can be avoided by smart gameplay, and not "button mashing" which was my point.  By the way my opinion is not a fallacy just like yours isn't.  Creating an argument that I never propagated though is.

[AdunSaveMe]

1 hour ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

Except I never said any of that. 

Yeah.

On 10/11/2016 at 3:53 PM, jfhsanseiIII said:

Every time there's an ability that causes players trouble that isn't overcome with smashing ability buttons then I see these threads. 

You kinda did. You're just implying that people complain about enemies because they can't beat them by button mashing, which is ridiculous. It is a silly thing to say. It's not just an incorrect statement, it completely ignores any and all actual arguments made without making any of its own. I didn't make this up. These are your words, right there.

The mechanic is not avoided by smart gameplay. It isn't avoided by ANYTHING except cheesing the entire map before anything has a chance to move. It cannot be avoided. It targets you through walls, through terrain, instantly, with no counter, no telegraph, and no possible way of avoiding it, even with 'smart gameplay'. It is literally unavoidable unless you specifically cheese it. It cannot be dodged, blocked, foreseen, reversed or mitigated. Would you still be defending it if it just randomly killed you? It might as well, really.

On top of all of this, even if it was avoidable, could be countered or could be avoided by ''smart gameplay'', it would still be lazy, boring, terrible, unfun and uninteresting design. It brings nothing to the table but frustration and disappointment. It doesn't make the grineer more effective, it doesn't make them or the unit more interesting, it doesn't fit the lore, it doesn't fit the faction, it doesn't fit the unit that uses it, and it has no tactical niche to fill. "Teleports player to random place regardless of tactical gain", wow, how interesting.

You enjoy the advantages? You think it can be avoided? Great. Tell me why, and how. Explain your position, without resorting to implications about players. Tell me why it's an interesting and challenging unit, and we can have an actual discussion for a change. Don't just say it's fine, say WHY it's fine.

Edited November 11, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[KnightCole]

On 11/10/2016 at 6:58 PM, Nexecute said:

'They throw a flashbang just like they throw a grenade...'

There's a lot of delay on a grenade. It gives you plenty of time run away. Switch Teleporting is instant and unavoidable. Even if it did work like you described, it would still be better because it isn't a stun. You can still spam jump and block.

in short

ur wrong

I suppose so, still plenty annoying.  I guess a momentary blind is better then being ported into a pack of baddies...

[o.0-]

For me the Grineer Switch Teleport needs some tweaking to LoS and length of stagger, while also giving it to Manics. Lorewise it fits better with how they are created and in-game with how they already move and attack.

Commanders should then be given a buffing Aura and the Marelok and/or Hek as Field Command units. The Aura can adjust how enemies react so that instead of running to cover and hiding, they are more active in attacking. So Commanders remain a high priority target and make everything around them more lethal due to his ability to command Grineer in combat situations.

 

This idea has been on my mind for quite some time now.

Spoiler

Quote

One unit that stands out as odd is the Commander having Switch Teleport.

This unit should fill the role of how the Comba/Scrambus could be considered Field Officers for the Grineer, so tweak the AI so the unit does not keep retreating, trying to find cover away from the Tenno, and removing the Switch Teleport ability (which actually fits better with Manics, as they already have erratic movement, have a Telegraphed entry and have been modified by Tyl Regor).

In terms of armament, this unit should be able to carry the Hek and/or Marelok, and have an invisible aura, that would work similar to how Corpus units get near to Nullifier bubbles, and the aura improves how other Grineer units fire their weaponry, along with how they use cover and hold their ground against us.

Manics could then add Switch Teleport to their arsenal of tricks as vicious melee units.