Do Toxin procs scale off of Covert Lethality?

[Dreddeth]

I was having a conversation about whether or not Status weapons were all that great compared to crit weapons, which is tangential to this question, and I was thinking of how DoT statuses scale with the damage of the inflicted hit, and of course that got me thinking about how Covert Lethality works.

Normally of course trying to inflict a DoT status with a CL dagger would be utterly redundant, since CL kills the enemy dead, and even in the following scenario it's not exactly useful, but an answer would clarify the workings of some of Warframe's mechanics.

In our scenario, a Saryn with a CL dagger has cast Spore on an enemy, and that enemy has then been made vulnerable to Stealth Finishers somehow, such as with an Excalibur's Radial Blind. Saryn activates Toxic Lash before attacking that enemy, which normally guarantees a Toxin proc and pops a spore to spread that proc.

My question of the outcome is twofold: Would such a setup result in a Toxin proc being spread, and would that proc deal damage equal to a percentage of the killed enemy's total HP?

Of course, this is assuming that CL deals damage equal to the target's Effective Hit Points rather than killing them through some other means without factoring in damage at all. If the latter is the case, then it can be assumed that no status is procced, making the question of whether or not a Spore would pop largely pointless.

[Naftal]

You cannot proc anything on finishers so the instakilling part of Covert Lethality doesn't do anything to them, but the base damage increase will make damage procs do higher damage on non-finishers.

[bluepheonix13]

I have heard a rumor that CL actually does not instakill, but it just does a very big number of damage (enough to kill any enemy, regardless of level). Don't know if that's true though and I don't know the answer to your question.

[Manyc]

I wouldn't say so, because I believe CL's kiling property is actually a status proc itself.

I have no way to prove this aside from the fact that Ancient Healers absorb all procs from allies that are within their aura range and when I kill an enemy that's in the Healers aura, they both die instantly.

[Airwolfen]

Only testing can tell really. The question you are after though can be sized down to this: Does CL add to the damage of the weapon or does it take the damage and raise it.

It probably deals a toxic proc though as it is still a melee strike. The damage however depends on the question above.

What I expect to happen personally: Target is killed (duh) and a toxic proc will spread taking just the weapon damage into calculation.

As I do not believe that the weapons damage raises during the CL hit but is added during damage calculation. and toxin procs scale with weapon damage and not dealt damage.

[bluepheonix13]

10 minutes ago, Manyc said:

I wouldn't say so, because I believe CL's kiling property is actually a status proc itself.

I have no way to prove this aside from the fact that Ancient Healers absorb all procs from allies that are within their aura range and when I kill an enemy that's in the Healers aura, they both die instantly.

Really? That would be a very fast way to take out all healers in the vicinity without identifying them in the group.

[Omnipower]

12 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

I have heard a rumor that CL actually does not instakill, but it just does a very big number of damage (enough to kill any enemy, regardless of level). Don't know if that's true though and I don't know the answer to your question.

and here i thought it was an instakill as it always seem to do the targets full hp and shields(where applicable) meaning a lv 1 CL kill for grineer is like 100hp while corpus is 50hp and 50 shields where as a lv 100 its like 20k hp and corpus is 10k hp and 10k shield (numbers are random and not what their actual health and shields are at those lvls just showing how i always saw CL worked)..

[Manyc]

1 minute ago, bluepheonix13 said:

Really? That would be a very fast way to take out all healers in the vicinity without identifying them in the group.

When I used to run Void Survivals with Ivara that's how I wouldn't worry about them.

Also, Radiation is the way besides that, since they absorb, they become radiated means the aura is disabled for the duration.

[lukinu_u]

Cover Letality inflinct enemi's health + shield amount with armor bypass. So, higher level enemis will take higher damages. 

[Doxorn]

15 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Cover Letality inflinct enemi's health + shield amount with armor bypass. So, higher level enemis will take higher damages. 

I can confirm this:

Spoiler

I was using Karyst with Covert Lethality

Edited November 11, 2016 by Doxorn

[Dreddeth]

I suppose someone with a friend (that is, someone other than me) can playtest this by going into a mission with an RB Excal and a TL Saryn with a CL dagger equipped, and then we might have our definitive answer.

Edit: If this is true, I kinda wonder if it might become a thing for sh**s and giggles, like a whole team of Assimilate Nyxes "racing" to extraction.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Dreddeth
P.S.

[bluepheonix13]

1 hour ago, Manyc said:

I wouldn't say so, because I believe CL's kiling property is actually a status proc itself.

I have no way to prove this aside from the fact that Ancient Healers absorb all procs from allies that are within their aura range and when I kill an enemy that's in the Healers aura, they both die instantly.

Interestingly enough, I just tested this in Simulacrum. It works with Ivara, Equinox and Inaros, but for some reason not with Ash's Teleport.

Edited November 11, 2016 by bluepheonix13

[Manyc]

1 minute ago, bluepheonix13 said:

Interestingly enough, I just tested this in Simulacrum. It works with Ivara, Equinox and Inaros, but for some reason not with Ash.

By Ash do you mean Fatal Teleport Augment or BladeStorm? In case it's BladeStorm only attack speed mods carry over (and combo duration mods) so CL won't work.

If you meant the Augment, I never tested it but according to wikia it should make use of CL.

[bluepheonix13]

5 minutes ago, Manyc said:

By Ash do you mean Fatal Teleport Augment or BladeStorm? In case it's BladeStorm only attack speed mods carry over (and combo duration mods) so CL won't work.

If you meant the Augment, I never tested it but according to wikia it should make use of CL.

I meant Teleport (with and without Augment).

[Manyc]

1 minute ago, bluepheonix13 said:

I meant Teleport (with and without Augment).

Augment could be special since it's an automatic finisher, now without it, keep in mind that you have to be undetected, make sure you're cloaked by Smoke Screen.

Specially if you use Corrupted units, they can spread awareness of enemy presence faster than Infested so the Healer could be alerting his partner.

If you are making sure you're going in undetected, well, I'd say to try out in the field or something might be wrong.

[ZombieLorde91]

17 minutes ago, Manyc said:

By Ash do you mean Fatal Teleport Augment or BladeStorm? In case it's BladeStorm only attack speed mods carry over (and combo duration mods) so CL won't work.

If you meant the Augment, I never tested it but according to wikia it should make use of CL.

Fatal Teleport with CL will kill an Ancient Healer when it is linked to another ally of theirs... although at this point I've played with this build on my Ash enough that I just target Ancients first on sight anyways. I can tell you that with 100% confidence. Without Fatal Teleport, more testing required?

[bluepheonix13]

24 minutes ago, ZombieLorde91 said:

Fatal Teleport with CL will kill an Ancient Healer when it is linked to another ally of theirs... although at this point I've played with this build on my Ash enough that I just target Ancients first on sight anyways. I can tell you that with 100% confidence. Without Fatal Teleport, more testing required?

Well, I just tried it in Simulacrum and it did not work with or without the Augment. Don't know what I did wrong / you do right.

 

32 minutes ago, Manyc said:

Augment could be special since it's an automatic finisher, now without it, keep in mind that you have to be undetected, make sure you're cloaked by Smoke Screen.

Why do I need to be undetected? Ash's Teleport opens enemies to finishers. The Runner I tested it with died through the use of CL, the healer beside him did not even flinch.

[ZombieLorde91]

23 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

Well, I just tried it in Simulacrum and it did not work with or without the Augment. Don't know what I did wrong / you do right.

Since I play on the PS4 nowadays, there could be an update that stopped it so I'll get you that answer if that happens... if this topic doesn't get archived by then.

But until then for console players, you have to time it where the Ancient Healer needs to release his heal pulse when strike the target that is linked to it. It is a bit of a pain to setup but the reward is 2 kills with one attack.

By pain in the butt I mean like as having a perfect time when firing a fully charged Opticor on the spinning disk green light things in Kela De Thaym's Arena... annoying but doable

[Manyc]

45 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

Why do I need to be undetected? Ash's Teleport opens enemies to finishers. The Runner I tested it with died through the use of CL, the healer beside him did not even flinch.

It's CL requirement to work: "(...) or Lethal Damage IF undetected."

[bluepheonix13]

7 minutes ago, Manyc said:

It's CL requirement to work: "(...) or Lethal Damage IF undetected."

Well that text is obviously false, because any (non ground-) finisher will trigger lethal damage or how will you explain that the targeted enemy dies and it also worked with Inaros for example?

[Manyc]

Just now, bluepheonix13 said:

Well that text is obviously false, because any (non ground-) finisher will trigger lethal damage or how will you explain that the targeted enemy dies and it also worked with Inaros for example?

Because blinding an enemy acts as if your undetected.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Covert_Lethality

Here, check the list a bit down for abilities that may trigger Stealth Finishers (and yes, I know Ash's teleport is there, but if you go to Teleport's page it also mentions that is leaves some enemies alerted).

[bluepheonix13]

1 minute ago, Manyc said:

Because blinding an enemy acts as if your undetected.

Well, we could argue about the use of the word in the mod description. But the fact remains, that any (non-ground) finisher counts as "undetected" in this sense.

1 minute ago, Manyc said:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Covert_Lethality

Here, check the list a bit down for abilities that may trigger Stealth Finishers (and yes, I know Ash's teleport is there

I know, checked it beforehand. And yes, Ash's teleport is there, because it actually works with Ash (the targeted enemy did die from CL). Just that the surrounding Ancients did not receive the damage as happened with other frames.

1 minute ago, Manyc said:

, but if you go to Teleport's page it also mentions that is leaves some enemies alerted).

It only says so for Wardens and I did not try with those.

39 minutes ago, ZombieLorde91 said:

But until then for console players, you have to time it where the Ancient Healer needs to release his heal pulse when strike the target that is linked to it. It is a bit of a pain to setup but the reward is 2 kills with one attack.

Weird, but will try sometime. It works with other frames without waiting for a healing pulse.

[ZombieLorde91]

12 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

Weird, but will try sometime. It works with other frames without waiting for a healing pulse.

That or the Ancient Distruptor... but I do know one will die because they are linked to your original target.

Either way, it is still fun to do.