Test Before You Talk

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

Way too often, I see people judging weapons and warframes without a lot or any usage with them. Last night, for example, I argued with a guy about Zephyr, and he didn't even reach 1mil EXP with her, while I had over 8x more than him. What annoys me even more is when people do the same with Oberon, while I have actually hundreds of times more experience using him. In those cases, I'm usually insulted for that, my offers to show them how good her is in-game are declined, my offers to do the same with videos are declined, or I'm just ignored.

What I'm wondering is why is this so common. Common enough for me to experience multiple times per day, even. (I've recently been testing Nezha, who I think is quite similar to Oberon, and I'm enjoying him more, only because my allies are a lot more peaceful with me when I use him. I'm not pressured nearly as much or insulted when I stat underperforming.)

[Misgenesis]

If its not meta its trash, basically. Zephyr's a really good frame despite having 2 outdated abilities. Id much rather have her for defence missions than Frost.

[(XBOX)Woofsie]

2 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

If its not meta its trash, basically. Zephyr's a really good frame despite having 2 outdated abilities. Id much rather have her for defence missions than Frost.

Basically it. I love playing Oberon and Saryn, and get quite a bit of hate for it. Best to just ignore them. 

[Tailion]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

Way too often, I see people judging weapons and warframes without a lot or any usage with them. Last night, for example, I argued with a guy about Zephyr, and he didn't even reach 1mil EXP with her, while I had over 8x more than him. What annoys me even more is when people do the same with Oberon, while I have actually hundreds of times more experience using him. In those cases, I'm usually insulted for that, my offers to show them how good her is in-game are declined, my offers to do the same with videos are declined, or I'm just ignored.

What I'm wondering is why is this so common. Common enough for me to experience multiple times per day, even. (I've recently been testing Nezha, who I think is quite similar to Oberon, and I'm enjoying him more, only because my allies are a lot more peaceful with me when I use him. I'm not pressured nearly as much or insulted when I stat underperforming.)

It does not always take alot, or any testing to understand the flaws of a frame. Less then 5 minutes of testing with nezha and i could tell that he is crap compared to rhino due to poor scaling and awful animation times. Numbers and an understanding of how the game works makes it take very little time to sort some things out.

 

Some things like certain mods can take a good bit of testing to figure out its quirks, but frames stats, skills, and scaling are very easy to read and easy to understand. Zephyr for example (to me) is crap because her 1 & 2 are pointless when parkour exists, her 3 is actually pretty good (very good with the augment) but mesa has the same effect on her 3 and brings ALOT more to the table and when it comes to Zephyr's 4 its unreliable, expensive, and does very little that i cant do with other skills or just using the Sonicor.

[DogManDan]

Broberon for life - ask anyone who watches me on youtube!

 

Also the issue stems really from "large & popular" channels who over the years have put everyone who follows in a certain mindset; if you don't play at max with the meta or what they believe to be correct based on some hypothetical calculated mathematically setup mod scheme than anything else is going to be wrong. I will never give up my fight against people who are like that instead of just learning how to actually play something first and not just by a calculation!

[Hemmo67]

using broberon to clear lvl 100 sorties is always nice change of  pace and seeying team drop their jaw before the mighty immortal oberon is always fun :P

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

5 minutes ago, Tailion said:

It does not always take alot, or any testing to understand the flaws of a frame. Less then 5 minutes of testing with nezha and i could tell that he is crap compared to rhino due to poor scaling and awful animation times. Numbers and an understanding of how the game works makes it take very little time to sort some things out.

 

Some things like certain mods can take a good bit of testing to figure out its quirks, but frames stats, skills, and scaling are very easy to read and easy to understand. Zephyr for example (to me) is crap because her 1 & 2 are pointless when parkour exists, her 3 is actually pretty good (very good with the augment) but mesa has the same effect on her 3 and brings ALOT more to the table and when it comes to Zephyr's 4 its unreliable, expensive, and does very little that i cant do with other skills or just using the Sonicor.

The second build I tried with Nezha allowed me to take on level 120 enemies without many issues. I'm now putting forma on him. to make him even better. Same with Zephyr, but I've used her way more, and have never encountered any survival issues with my build. I think you need to do your testing.

1 minute ago, DogManDan said:

Broberon for life - ask anyone who watches me on youtube!

I knew I recognized your name from somewhere. I hardly check my subscriptions feed though.

Edited December 3, 2016 by (PS4)Darth-Escar

[DogManDan]

3 minutes ago, Tailion said:

It does not always take alot, or any testing to understand the flaws of a frame. Less then 5 minutes of testing with nezha and i could tell that he is crap compared to rhino due to poor scaling and awful animation times. Numbers and an understanding of how the game works makes it take very little time to sort some things out.

Less than 5 minutes with Nezha and I could tell you he is one of the best and underrated frames in this game much like Oberon, but hey the game is about personal choice and not the people who tell you what you must play or do........The community has long forgotten it is all about personal choice

[(XBOX)Woofsie]

6 minutes ago, DogManDan said:

Broberon for life - ask anyone who watches me on youtube!

 

Also the issue stems really from "large & popular" channels who over the years have put everyone who follows in a certain mindset; if you don't play at max with the meta or what they believe to be correct based on some hypothetical calculated mathematically setup mod scheme than anything else is going to be wrong. I will never give up my fight against people who are like that instead of just learning how to actually play something first and not just by a calculation!

The broberon god has spoken. Listen well mortals.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

Eh, the only thing I would say in this regard is that some Frames, while in no way terrible, can be good if used properly and modded well enough. Now, this does not make them better than other options, let alone allow them to compete with them.

A great example would be Hydroid and Vauban. Hydroid can be useful, yet when his CC is buggy, unable to reach flying enemies and likes to go all over the place, why would you use him aside from personal interest or preference when Booben just works better 99% of the time? 

Also, yes, there are arguments for using Hydroid instead of Booben, yet when you have to really look for a reason as to why he's more useful, then how is he more useful? He's better in one incredibly specific situation that will not sure as often as one would like to believe. 

To put it bluntly, no Warframe is bad. Yet some just can't compete with others in their class, which is a major problem.

Zephyr is a great Warframe, yet having two useless abilities and one with semi-helpful CC weighs down on her. Oberon is another one. His healing is nice, yet it's too slow and his other abilities simply don't do enough. They do JUST enough, which is not good.

[Archeyef]

Dunno, bro. Personally I don't really pay attention to what people are using and just let them get on with it. If they can perform well with whatever, that's good enough for me.

[Tailion]

 

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

The second build I tried with Nezha allowed me to take on level 120 enemies without many issues. I'm now putting forma on him. to make him even better. Same with Zephyr, but I've used her way more, and have never encountered any survival issues with my build. I think you need to do your testing.

 

Just now, DogManDan said:

Less than 5 minutes with Nezha and I could tell you he is one of the best and underrated frames in this game much like Oberon, but hey the game is about personal choice and not the people who tell you what you must play or do........The community has long forgotten it is all about personal choice

Lets look at Nezha shall we? for the sake of this we shall ignore augments since rhino has been around for longer and has more of them

Rhino: Rhino's 1 carries good CC for cheap, fast animation times and is cheap since it is a 1. Rhino's 2 is a VERY strong ability due it its cheap cost, scaling, and ability to ignore status and such. Rhino's 3 is a very strong all purpose damage buff where as other buff frames (Like Banshee) can be a bit more circumstantial, this buff is helpful to both rhino and his team. Rhino's 4 is a fairly well scaling ability that gives CC and finisher options with decent animation speeds. So in summary Rhino's 2, 3, and 4 are all very good abilities and his 1 is good enough for a 1, he brings CC,survivability, and damage buffs in a single frame and can do it all in 1 build fairly easily.

 

Nezha: Nezha's 1 is nice if you like going fast and can remove status from allies (pretty helpful), out side of the extra mobilty it does very little. Nezha's 2 tosses out a low damage chakram that can restore some health (scales off of power str so it can heal a decent chunk of health) in a small area, the chakram can be activated again to teleport which is cool, but not all that helpful given Nezha's innate mobility. Nezha's 3 is a worse base and scaling version of Rhino's 2 with small CC on it, but it has a rather long cast time which has gotten me killed more then once both during simulacrum testing and real mission testing (thanks to nullifiers and bombards). Nezha's 4 is yet again a worse version of Rhino's 4, less then half the duration and a good bit less range with annoying cast animations on the up, and down for the spears, Nezha's 4 can also be useless vs infested thanks to ancients. So in Summary 2 of Nezha's abilities are worse versions of Rhino's with bad animation times (which natural talent can only fix so much) which leave Nezha's 1 & 2 which are both good enough for what they are thanks to the mobility and slight supportive effects. Nezha does bring CC, survivability, and minor supportive roles but Rhino does it better, the only real way Rhino loses is mobility, if you wanta go fast then Nezha is great but for long haul high challenge missions Nezha is just outclassed by a frame that already existed. This is all before you take into account Augments which make Rhino;s key ability, Iron Skin, MUCH stronger and easier to use.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

35 minutes ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

I have actually hundreds of times more experience using him.

That doesn't make your opinion any more valid than his.

Oberon is just bad in comparison to other frames. A video showing him surviving doesn't actually prove anything because you can pick any frame in the game, never use a single power, and still do relatively well.

[Wolfdoggie]

35 minutes ago, DogManDan said:

Less than 5 minutes with Nezha and I could tell you he is one of the best and underrated frames in this game much like Oberon, but hey the game is about personal choice and not the people who tell you what you must play or do........The community has long forgotten it is all about personal choice

My most played frame. <3 I feel nerfed when I play a different frame. ;]

Spoiler

 

Edited December 3, 2016 by Wolfdoggie

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

4 minutes ago, Tailion said:

Nezha's 4 is yet again a worse version of Rhino's 4, less then half the duration

Wrong. it has more duration. You really don't know what you're talking about.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

That doesn't make your opinion any more valid than his.

Oberon is just bad in comparison to other frames. A video showing him surviving doesn't actually prove anything because you can pick any frame in the game, never use a single power, and still do relatively well.

Well I do rely on his powers, and while nothing necessarily makes my opinion more valid, I can personally bet on or demonstrate just about anything with him. I'd have a few hundred platinum if people kept their word, but I expected to never receive what I would've won anyway.

11 minutes ago, Archeyef said:

Dunno, bro. Personally I don't really pay attention to what people are using and just let them get on with it. If they can perform well with whatever, that's good enough for me.

I could try, but IDK. I feel like I have to defend myself, plus it happens really quite often to me.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Just now, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

Well I do rely on his powers, and while nothing necessarily makes my opinion more valid, I can personally bet on or demonstrate just about anything with him. I'd have a few hundred platinum if people kept their word, but I expected to never receive what I would've won anyway.

And? Like I said, I can solo end-planet missions without using powers, but that doesn't make it a smart way to play nor prove anything.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

And? Like I said, I can solo end-planet missions without using powers, but that doesn't make it a smart way to play nor prove anything.

What about stuff against level 120-170 enemies? That's what I mainly show. (Not without powers, obviously.)

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Just now, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

What about stuff against level 120-170 enemies? That's what I mainly show. (Not without powers, obviously.)

Say hello to my Boom Stick:

Also: I hope you mean in level, because using the simulator doesn't prove anything.

[Thebel]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

What about stuff against level 120-170 enemies? That's what I mainly show. (Not without powers, obviously.)

That you can do whatever it is you set out to do, which is good on a personal level but you still have to accept that there are frames that could do it better,easier,faster or whatever which is what he's trying to get at, I believe.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Say hello to my Boom Stick:

Also: I hope you mean in level, because using the simulator doesn't prove anything.

You can't even spawn level 170 enemies in the simulacrum. Ugh.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

You can't even spawn level 170 enemies in the simulacrum. Ugh.

*shrugs* I wouldn't know. I never used the thing, not even once.

3 minutes ago, Thebel said:

there are frames that could do it better,easier,faster or whatever which is what he's trying to get at, I believe.

Someone get this fella a prize. He hit the bulls-eye.

[DogManDan]

20 minutes ago, Tailion said:

 

 

Lets look at Nezha shall we? for the sake of this we shall ignore augments since rhino has been around for longer and has more of them

Rhino: Rhino's 1 carries good CC for cheap, fast animation times and is cheap since it is a 1. Rhino's 2 is a VERY strong ability due it its cheap cost, scaling, and ability to ignore status and such. Rhino's 3 is a very strong all purpose damage buff where as other buff frames (Like Banshee) can be a bit more circumstantial, this buff is helpful to both rhino and his team. Rhino's 4 is a fairly well scaling ability that gives CC and finisher options with decent animation speeds. So in summary Rhino's 2, 3, and 4 are all very good abilities and his 1 is good enough for a 1, he brings CC,survivability, and damage buffs in a single frame and can do it all in 1 build fairly easily.

 

Nezha: Nezha's 1 is nice if you like going fast and can remove status from allies (pretty helpful), out side of the extra mobilty it does very little. Nezha's 2 tosses out a low damage chakram that can restore some health (scales off of power str so it can heal a decent chunk of health) in a small area, the chakram can be activated again to teleport which is cool, but not all that helpful given Nezha's innate mobility. Nezha's 3 is a worse base and scaling version of Rhino's 2 with small CC on it, but it has a rather long cast time which has gotten me killed more then once both during simulacrum testing and real mission testing (thanks to nullifiers and bombards). Nezha's 4 is yet again a worse version of Rhino's 4, less then half the duration and a good bit less range with annoying cast animations on the up, and down for the spears, Nezha's 4 can also be useless vs infested thanks to ancients. So in Summary 2 of Nezha's abilities are worse versions of Rhino's with bad animation times (which natural talent can only fix so much) which leave Nezha's 1 & 2 which are both good enough for what they are thanks to the mobility and slight supportive effects. Nezha does bring CC, survivability, and minor supportive roles but Rhino does it better, the only real way Rhino loses is mobility, if you wanta go fast then Nezha is great but for long haul high challenge missions Nezha is just outclassed by a frame that already existed. This is all before you take into account Augments which make Rhino;s key ability, Iron Skin, MUCH stronger and easier to use.

I am going to be blunt and honest here ..... I don't care a bit about your breakdown of stats at all which is exactly the point I have been making in the comments if you would read my small sentence compared to some opinions made by you based on you enjoying Rhino over Nezha.  Its all BLAH BLAH BLAH and I AM BETTER BECAUSE!!!!! Bull in the end is what it really is.

[Thebel]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Someone get this fella a prize. He hit the bulls-eye.

People have some weird self justification that whatever is good or not bad. In reality good and bad only matter to Min/Maxers/Meta gamers, which is probably a pretty small amount of the population. You can get through at least 95% of this game easily with any combination of frames/weapons, for that last 5% you might have either put a bit of effort in or changing something around.

[str4dlin]

Mate, play what you enjoy and forget the opinions.

Opinions come usually from people who copy failed builds or think that they are better because they play what all people play.

People who say a warframe is crap is because they want find another within instead of look for what it is usefull.
People who say limbo is crap then ask for one to do NPC-defense missions for example. I dont play limbo, but there is it.

Peace.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

6 minutes ago, Thebel said:

which is probably a pretty small amount of the population

The best is always a small percentage of anything. I don't see a reason why this would not apply to gaming too.

3 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

Mate, play what you enjoy and forget the opinions.

I agree with this. Play however you want and with what you like. Just don't try to pretend it is the best gear in the game. If you like Oberon then play him. Just don't pretend like he is the best or get offended when people call you out on it.

In the end, pretending he is great only hurts you. If people pretend he is good then he is less likely to ever get the buffs he needs to actually be good.