Riven Mods - A huge mistake?

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Rivens are terrible. We didn't need another layer of RNG bull****.

I tried to work with this new system. You know what I got, in Riven mods? 1 for the Paris, 1 for the Harpak (does anyone even remember what that gun is?), 2 for the Mutalist Cernos (not even 5 Rivens in and I'm getting duplicates for weapons I don't use, isn't that lovely?) and a +CRIT -STAT mod FOR MY MITER!

 

And now the pool is even bigger, and I'm even more likely to run a dozen sorties only to get mods I'll never use, while some whale with more dollars than sense is running around with one for his ear-**** Simulor.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On December 24, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Dergas said:

Even so, Riven mods are also an additional way for DE to get income so they won't be removing that any time soon. "Almost $5 worth of plat for a few kilobytes or less of data? Sign me up!"

They are acting in a smart, responsible way by always including revenue-generating systems to keep the game going.

Implementation may not be perfect, but I'm glad they continue to find ways to progress.

[-Fe-McHamm3rShot]

Give it some time mate, you will eventually get one you really love.  Then you will see how fun they can be, and how much they can change a weapons utility.  Sorry about you getting no love from RNGesus, I'd suggest going in trade and picking a few up for your favorite weapons.  Rolling them, and see what you get.  I'm also using weapons that I've never used before (at least were not my go-to's) and having a ton of fun.. Chin up pal, I know the RNG can be a bit of a bum deal at times, but also rewards us with crazy fun stuff too.  Stuff like mega crit combos, crazy fast reload, crazy flight speed, huge magazines, +300% dmg to non-meta weapons..

[notlamprey]

On 12/24/2016 at 7:54 PM, sushidubya said:

The devs have committed to not balancing the game around rivens so there's that.  Not much to worry about then.

Oh, you mean the way they have balanced Hema's research costs around a healthy middle ground of player activity and 'farming power?'

Instead, they balanced it around what they thought was essentially a theoretical maximum. The same will happen with Riven Mods. The commitment is irrelevant; DE's past behavior has proven that they do not operate around the idea of carefully choosing and then sticking to their promises.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

1 minute ago, notlamprey said:

Oh, you mean the way they have balanced Hema's research costs around a healthy middle ground of player activity and 'farming power?'

Instead, they balanced it around what they thought was essentially a theoretical maximum. The same will happen with Riven Mods. The commitment is irrelevant; DE's past behavior has proven that they do not operate around the idea of carefully choosing and then sticking to their promises.

Nah man..  You can still take mid tiered weapons with no riven mod and maxed regular mods with primed mods and still do great damage.  They went on the record to say that they will not balance the game around riven mods, also...  Some of the riven mods are just terrible, so why would they?  Not every riven is amazing like say a primed cryo rounds which is 100% good if maxed.  So why would they only balance the game around the extremely lucky folk with God rivens?

You can be assured that if that ever happens I'll be right next to you objecting to it, but for now I'll take devs word for it.

[notlamprey]

1 minute ago, sushidubya said:

Nah man..  You can still take mid tiered weapons with no riven mod and maxed regular mods with primed mods and still do great damage.  They went on the record to say that they will not balance the game around riven mods, also...  Some of the riven mods are just terrible, so why would they?  Not every riven is amazing like say a primed cryo rounds which is 100% good if maxed.  So why would they only balance the game around the extremely lucky folk with God rivens?

You can be assured that if that ever happens I'll be right next to you objecting to it, but for now I'll take devs word for it.

You're not wrong about the current state of balance, but DE has shown us that they simply don't plan far enough ahead to allow themselves to make and keep long-term promises.

I wouldn't say they're intentionally deceiving anyone; more like they just don't operate in a way that allows them to set and keep a consistent design philosophy over the long term. It isn't that I don't trust them. In fact, I don't think trustworthiness is even relevant here. I think DE is just constantly making every choice by the seat of their pants, and we shouldn't consider anything they tell us to be a promise.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

6 hours ago, notlamprey said:

You're not wrong about the current state of balance, but DE has shown us that they simply don't plan far enough ahead to allow themselves to make and keep long-term promises.

I wouldn't say they're intentionally deceiving anyone; more like they just don't operate in a way that allows them to set and keep a consistent design philosophy over the long term. It isn't that I don't trust them. In fact, I don't think trustworthiness is even relevant here. I think DE is just constantly making every choice by the seat of their pants, and we shouldn't consider anything they tell us to be a promise.

Yeah I can understand that sentiment.   We've both been around here long enough.  hahaha.  I don't disagree with what you've written here, but yeah I still think that it wouldn't make sense to balance the game around RNG gotten goods, totally not fair, so I personally trust them not to do so.  However, who knows what the future holds?  ;)

Edited December 28, 2016 by sushidubya

[UseCorrosiveProjection]

On 12/25/2016 at 5:18 AM, Brachion said:

Rivens were created to make older, underused weapons viable, and to give people an incentive to use them and experiment with unique builds. In addition, since stronger weapons have weaker Rivens, power creep isn't gonna be an issue.

explain my 197.5% crit chance dread? How is it that rivens are made for good weapons?

If anything, rivens should be given by some riven cephalon or baro ki teer where a specific weapon, preferably weak weapon, comes out every few weeks to incentivise players to use those weak weapons. 

If anything, rivens just widened the gap further. I do not think that the way rivens should come out should be as i said, but at least make it so that only specific weapons get rivens.

[(PSN)GallonOfSkimMilk]

To bring down some of the RNG the mods should have set values. So one players Braton riven shouldn't have +65% status chance, +154% damage, +105% toxic and the other player shouldn't have +75% status chance, +172% damage, and 117% toxic. The values should be set.

Another change that should be made is to allow players to "lock in" 1-3 of the stats on the riven mods when rerolling, but make it cost more kuvo to do so. So the first reroll costs 900 and you like one of the stats it has so it costs an additional 50% kuvo of the reroll price for each locked in stat you want to keep when rerolling.

This would help eliminate the rich players being able to afford all the best rivens because now the only thing you need to do is just get the riven for the weapon you want itself. You don't really have to worry about the stats it has. You'll pretty easily be able to get the stats you want without having to pay 500p+.

I do like that they exist so that if there is a weaker weapon you liked using when you were progressing through the game you can do so. I'm against just buffing a bunch of the weaker weapons because then there isn't any sense of progression if your Lato is just as strong as the Marelok.

Edited December 29, 2016 by (PS4)SecksySeckstrain

[-N7-Leonhart]

20 hours ago, Symm3trIx said:

explain my 197.5% crit chance dread? How is it that rivens are made for good weapons?

If anything, rivens should be given by some riven cephalon or baro ki teer where a specific weapon, preferably weak weapon, comes out every few weeks to incentivise players to use those weak weapons. 

If anything, rivens just widened the gap further. I do not think that the way rivens should come out should be as i said, but at least make it so that only specific weapons get rivens.

Dread is not that strong anymore, compared to some other one hitting monsters that fire even faster. And sure enough, that Riven you speak of is not that strong either, clearly Faint Disposition. I have a Riven for Synapse that allows me to get to over 260% crit chance only with Point Strike (not to mention that it also adds a huge amount of multishot).

[._.-._.]

note that DE's reason to make the riven mods is to make the players trying and loving other weapons apart from meta weapons (or like "why not try, take, use, and love the other weapons apart from those meta weapons? if you do, i'll give you the enhancement: the riven mods for the weapon"), or just to reduce the frequency usage of meta weapons, and explore the worthy of non meta weapons, especially less frequent used weapons (like stug... :P)

 

i know that you might don't like much to see a person used the same, yet popular weapons on any missions, but why don't you show the worth of them (the unpopular weapons)?

i'm not going to blame the streamers who introduced the worth of each (either meta or non meta) weapons, or noobies who asked "what's the best weapon to use?" or other similar questions asked, and others answered some meta weapons. All that you need is to explore, and find what's REALLY suits your playstyle, with your prefered powerful modding

 

TL;DR

it's up to you, which weapons that REALLY suits your playstyle of gun and blade (apart from meta weapons / weapons with faint riven disposition weapons)?

 

(imo) what you ( @WolfTitan ) mentioned above is the sort of downsides of riven mods. I know, what humans made always have downsides, never be always upsides...

Edited January 17, 2017 by Primbone

[Skaleek]

I doubt they're going anywhere now. I have 43 rivens for all the secondaries and primaries i want (cept the Sobek and Brakk, too expensive), and most of them have top tier rolls. It didnt take me much plat. It took a lot of time though. I spent maybe a total of 400-500 plat picking up really bad high roll rivens on weapons i wanted. I spent about 2 million kuva getting good stats on most of them. Now I'm just saving Kuva for when they tweak the system so that the RNG is less punishing, which i expect someday (but maybe not, ie. Focus system). 

The real plat drain was from buying 30 slots. i believe it cost me 600p.

Although i will add this; because of the limit on Riven mods i am forced to throw away the terrible weapons because Rivens just can't make them good. My AkLato, Glaxion, Panthera, Miter and Convectrix mods, despite getting amazing rolls, were still garbage compared to my other weapons. So i had to sell them (which made back all the plat I spended buying up all those other rivens i wanted). Some mid-tier weapons definitely become end-game viable under the new system, but the lower tier weapons are still terrible. I have a hind mod that adds 300% damage and 150%  multishot and it still can't kill sortie grineer.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Skaleek
AkLato not AkVasto

[Volinus7]

Bleh. You are too late OP, I asked for its total removal on the first day. 

[DarkMoonPresence]

I can see your point, but the game is already quite broken, if you look at those youtubers doing endless intercept/defence/survival until almost impossible thresholds even without rivens. 

IMO, rivens do not keep new players away of having fun. Rivens only make some people's live easier. Because you can already reach levels you are not supposed without rivens (do I really need to mention Ivara with a dagger and Rakta Cernos?). If rivens could be used in PvP, it would be a big problem and it would be unfair. It would mean other player has an edge on you just because they paid more. Hopefully, it is not the case.

And most of the time OP weapons have faint riven dispositions, so rivens for soma and tonkor are meh and "normal" mods are better and cost less capacity. Seriously, I don't understand why people are trying to sell soma rivens for 1k plat and more. 

And if you really want to talk about power creep, just check prices for some "normal" mods that are rare and OP. Primed Chamber or Maiming Strike. Compared to them, rivens are cheap and not so good. But, what is important to understand, as long as the mod is not essential (simple damage, basic crit/status chance), the price is not important. The mods I mentioned (as rivens) are good, but you can do without. Just like cosmetics. I mean, it's cool to see your amprex doing only-red-crit-numbers, but it's not the thing that will save you at 100+ lvls. 

[Top_Kekkonen]

On 24/12/2016 at 8:59 PM, GodOfRandomnesss said:

They will NEVER remove them now that people have been paying plat for them. they might nerf but they wont remove...Unfortunately 

I've spent 400p on rivens and I'm still an advocate for removing them.

[toafarmer]

1- There is no content ingame that can't be done without Rivens;

2- I agree that it is too RNGish;

3- Making them untradeable or removing them makes no sense at all;

4- Everyone has access to it, just get a Riven, grind Kuva and reroll until you get something that pleases you.

[KaneAshe]

The hyperbole in this topic is far too strong. There is nothing wrong with RNG loot rolls in a grinding game. Ever heard of Diablo?

There's also nothing wrong with valuable items being worth a lot of plat. Plat is something you can farm quite easily in this game. If you are jealous of other people's shinies, go get to farming.

None of the points you are trying to make would be valid even if Riven Mods were actually serious power creep--but they aren't as other people here have rightly pointed out, so even your core premise falls flat.

And even if someone were able to get stronger than you because they have more plat to spend... so what? There's no competition in this game, so demanding to be on par with everyone else without putting in as much work as everyone else is simply being whiny and entitled. If someone is stronger than you because they spent more time farming... they kinda deserve it, no?

There is plenty of constructive feedback to provide concerning Rivens and their implementation but the "ITS PAY2WIN, GET OUT THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS PEOPLE!", just because something has the potential to be expensive and hard to get does not qualify.

Veterans need more long-term goals to keep playing this game because everything else is so easy to get. Rivens are one good step in that direction, even if their implementation leaves something to be desired.

Edited January 18, 2017 by KaneAshe