"Why is the Helminth Charger a grineer" or How I learned to read lore and stop worrying.

[TheChaotic1]

Okay, there is a serious lack of understanding of why the helminth is a grineer. Everyone keeps asking why its not a kubrow, and honestly it was never supposed to be. Helminth had no idea you would use a kubrow egg, he just needed biomatter.

The infested are clones, each one made following a template, every charger is made from the first grineer that was changed into one, just as every ancient healer was made from the first woman to turn to one.

This is the lore revealed from the synthesis scanner about infested ancients, if you read it, the grineer model will make much more sense

Spoiler

“She’s dead,” said Dax Menz, growing impatient.

“No, she’s not,” I knew it.

Our shuttle touched down in the ancient city center of New Uxmal for the second time in two days. We rushed to the entrance of the lower chambers, a labyrinth of tunnels carved into the rock. Behind us marched a full complement of bodyguards and Moas.

Menz asked again, “How can you be sure?”

“We’ve been connected for a century and a half, I’m sure.” It felt odd to be speaking aloud about something that Remballa and I had always just kept between us. That feeling of attachment, that anxiety that welled up within one of us when the other wasn’t right. That emptiness I felt when I thought they’d killed her and the joy when the connection came rushing back this morning.

We were twins bred for purpose, cloned and then modified so that we could both interface with the Lora Device. The Orokin had a visage imbued with variation, beauty and symmetry, but we had the Lora nodes protruding from our right temples. Their skin was silken, ours was weaved with ribbons of metallic facia that snaked around our bodies and into the Lora Device embedded in our palms. We made them uncomfortable and they made that known, that is, until they were sick or hurt and then we were saviors. That never bothered me though, I loved my sister and we had each other. I wasn’t about to leave her in the middle of this nightmare.

Hesitation was building in Menz’s face. I had command authority but if he balked, the soldiers would follow him. I needed to force his support, “If you were Tenno, there’d be no question.”

“The betrayers…” he stopped himself. “Look, Remballa’s gone. The Infested killed her yesterday, we both saw it.” His frustration was building, “Damnit, this was supposed to be a relief mission, we can’t-”

“It still is a relief mission.” I interrupted, “You want to go back to retirement Menz, or are you still a Dax?” I knew that stung.

Menz stiffened. He’d been cast aside before. He wasn’t about to let duty slip through his fingers again. Menz stared into me, “Are you willing to risk becoming one of those things for a feeling?”

I nodded, the answer was yes, for this feeling.

“Very well Lorist Ontella,” Menz turned to his squad. “Ready up.”

We entered the subterranean passage, weapon lights illuminated chiseled red stone as we marched deeper into the blackness, past shops and apartments, all carved into the rock eons ago. This city was as old as Mars's atmosphere. Everything was silent, save for the occasional snap of bone under a soldier’s boot. Three days ago this was a busy thoroughfare, now, bloodied scraps of clothing littered the route like confetti. We emerged from the tunnels into cavernous arcade, the Old Market Road. This is where she had led me.

“We’re close,” I said.

“Here they come,” shouted Dax Menz and creatures began to drive at us from every door and window. All teeth and claws and eyes that looked looked so familiar, what kind of animal has eyes like that?

“Square formation!” Menz commanded. We backed up to a wall and the Moa’s moved to form a perimeter, with the bodyguards behind them and me in the middle.

I closed my eyes and focused the device, through it I could feel each one of the bodyguards. A sergeant was slashed through the leg and I directed my energy toward him, his wound closed and he resumed fighting. Acid spit burned another soldier’s chest, I pushed energy to her, eased the pain, then reversed the damage, she would live. This was so much harder without Remballa. Another soldier was bit on the throat, he’s dying, there was nothing I could do, so I ease his pain and let him go. The rate of fire slowed, had we pushed them back?

I opened my eyes to see the Moa’s beams incinerate the last few attackers. I was drained. I wasn’t a combat Lorist, Remballa and I were relief workers, used in disasters and outbreaks, not this.

I felt a surge of that familiar connection, Remballa’s energy pulsed through me. “She’s coming,” I shouted.

“What?” Dax Menz head whipped around to look at me.

“I don’t know,” I said pointing at a hall exit, “she’s coming, from that direction.”

“More Infested!” Shouted a soldier who motioned to the same exit.

A mess of figures shambled forth. These were different, bigger and slower. I could feel my sister in there somehow, it was so strong. The Moas opened fire. I wanted to tell them to stop but how could I? I felt plasma beams burn the creatures and then I felt Remballa heal them. Why? Multiple connections now, I felt her many times over, it didn’t make sense, until it did; she was those things, all of them. They took our fire and kept coming. I felt her, no them, shudder as bullets ripped through flesh and then as flesh was made new again. They were Lorist Infested, my sister the healer, remade as monster and here to kill us.

More rushed in. I felt the healing in them too. I focused just as the first wave broke through our lines. Moas were toppled, soldiers were tackled, teeth tore flesh. I was overwhelmed, I couldn’t control it, their pain fed back through me and I collapsed. Something’s jaws latched onto my foot. Infection pulsed into my veins.

And then I felt it, a new presence, another healer? I’d felt this before, was it, it couldn’t be… I opened my eyes only to be blinded by an intense flash, followed by a crash, like a thousand crystal goblets all being shattered at once. All went silent, the Infested were dead. I felt nothing now.

My eyes readjusted. I was surrounded by bodies. I saw something run away, a streak of silver and gold. It shot straight up the cavern wall and out into the sunshine above.

I didn’t have time to think, I took a breath and a wave of pain surged through my entire body. The Infestation had already taken my leg, soon it would claim the rest of my body. I didn’t care, my sister was gone, this was my time.

A shadow cast itself over me. I looked up. It was Menz, alive, he stared down without speaking and then unsheathed his massive combat blade and raised it high above his head.

“Menz wait,” I mumbled, “I’m sorry.”

With sudden and sure force his blade sliced down and through me. I contorted in with the pain.

His hands grabbed my shoulders, “Heal yourself!”

The adrenaline must have struck at that moment because I bolted up, still stunned, he had cut the infected leg clean off.

“Damnit Ontella,” Menz was shaking me hard now. “Heal yourself!”

Instinct took over, I snapped into focus and sent all the energy I had left through the device and down to the wound. I stopped the bleeding and neutralized the remaining toxin. I nearly passed out, I had nothing left.

Menz hoisted me onto his shoulder, “I’m taking us back to the shuttle,” and he began walk out of there. A few scattered survivors and robots pulled themselves along behind us.

As we approached safety I coughed and whispered to Menz, “I can feel her again.”

“She’s dead.”

“Yes, she is.”

 

[-FV-Metheria]

But where did the Charger get a Grineer mask.

[xX_JohnWick2007_Xx]

What I believe is that the grineer artificially inseminated some of these kubrow before giving them back to the wild. But everyone has their own theories ;D

[shyguyk]

That Dr strangelove reference tho +1

[schilds]

3 minutes ago, -FV-Metheria said:

But where did the Charger get a Grineer mask.

The virus is not some traditional biological virus. There are infested machines after all. It plays with more than just biological information. Some of the mutations are not even functional, they're just copying form.

Edited December 31, 2016 by schilds

[-FV-Metheria]

Just now, schilds said:

The virus is not some traditional biological virus. There are infested machines after all. It plays with more than just biological information.

But like, it can manufacture a artificial metal plated mask? Does Ordis subtly build one for it behind our backs?

[StinkyPygmy]

It still doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The infested can only work with the biomatter they are given. Give them a grineer and the mutation is based on the Grineer DNA structure. Give them a regular human and its based on that. You can't work with mass that you don't physically have. And seeing as the Infested don't seem to have a pool of stored biomass and DNA structures (like the Zerg do) then they can't pull DNA from whatever they choose. If they do, its certainly at a central hub that is more often then not separated from the majority of outbreaks and certainly not on the orbiter. You could argue Heilmith has his own store, but its still just boring and underwhelming.  Even if it did make sense, thats beside the point, I'm more concerned with the fact that is just a lazily reused model and (I hope) its just a place holder till DE gets back.

Edited December 31, 2016 by StinkyPygmy

[TheChaotic1]

Its implied that the infested healers reduce damage because they are replicating a specially made one of a kind orokin artifact, I think a hunk of ferrite isn't that hard to replicate. Infestation is not as organic as it looks.

2 minutes ago, -FV-Metheria said:

But like, it can manufacture a artificial metal plated mask? Does Ordis subtly build one for it behind our backs?

[EmptyDevil]

I'm a lorehound myself and considered this as a possibility, but i don't buy it. Helminth doesn't seem to be the typical Infested. It is the Infested that serves the Warframes/Operators, it shouldn't have a connection to the average run-of-the-mill Infested, that ravenously attacks anything it sees. Helminth has remained on the Orbiter with Ordis for who knows how long, i highly doubt it would have a connection to the rest of the Hive and its mutated templates. If it did, it would behave very differently.

Helminth strain Infestation templates = Warframe bodies(logical assumption).

Average strain Infestation templates = Grineer, Corpus, and whatever it gets a hold of.

Edited December 31, 2016 by EmptyDevil

[Implodingbanana]

1 minute ago, -FV-Metheria said:

But like, it can manufacture a artificial metal plated mask? Does Ordis subtly build one for it behind our backs?

maybe it's not metal? idk, Im not sure where i heard this...but I think the infestation can make hardened materials although im not sure if this is true. maybe the mask is just an imitation. That or it's unfinished, Im leaning toward unfinished.

[StinkyPygmy]

3 minutes ago, TheChaotic1 said:

Its implied that the infested healers reduce damage because they are replicating a specially made one of a kind orokin artifact, I think a hunk of ferrite isn't that hard to replicate. Infestation is not as organic as it looks.

Boiler still never made sense to me. You can only work with the matter that you are given. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, ergo, boilers are a bit of a mess from a lore prespective. If they spawned maggots or something else I'd be completely fine with it. But not chargers or crewman.

Edited December 31, 2016 by StinkyPygmy

[-FV-Metheria]

2 minutes ago, TheChaotic1 said:

Its implied that the infested healers reduce damage because they are replicating a specially made one of a kind orokin artifact, I think a hunk of ferrite isn't that hard to replicate. Infestation is not as organic as it looks.

But it's a Ancient Healer. These were older, they don't replicate it. They actually have that tech. When infestation just grows it isn't very pretty. I don't think that like, it has the capacity to completely replicate a grineer mask.

 

I think what happened is that like, the Helminth Charger was put in because it was cool and the Grineer part was like, just there because it easier to port the model instead of being meant to be taken for any lore significance.

[Separius]

That story proves nothing about the infested having and using cloning technology.

The model is just a placeholder.

[TheChaotic1]

The grineer part is there because people asked for a charger specifically, so they literally gave us a charger. Like, thats what a charger IS, there is no other flavor of charger. The lore outright says that all this stuff is replicated. They can replicate moas why not plastic? How do you think all those grineer corpses got onto the corpus ships?

Spoiler

 

[TheChaotic1]

2 minutes ago, Separius said:

That story proves nothing about the infested having and using cloning technology.

The model is just a placeholder.

You mean the story about a woman who is linked to her sister via a specific piece of technology, the same piece of tech that links her to every infested healer?

Anyway they are bioclones based on templates, not literal clones.

Edited December 31, 2016 by TheChaotic1

[IggySnow]

I think everyone is forgetting that everything to do with this new pet was rushed an lazy, and if DE had more time to make it they never would have made it just a regular charger with greneer bits and armor.

Think about it. Reused charger model, reused kubrow skeleton and animations, reused abilities and art from other kubrows, you can even put kubrow armor on them even though they dont fit what so ever.

so instead of trying to justify the charger with lore, can we not just accept that this thing is in no way the final product?

[TheChaotic1]

Yes they would have, that was the plan all along, they are only changing it because people would rather it now have those parts. Yes there was a lot of hot garbage in the implementation, but its a charger, its what they said we were getting, its what its called in the lore. Its what was asked for by a loud group of members.

I am not justifying anything, it doesn't have to make sense honestly, but the thing is it DOES fit warframes lore. I am just here to explain why it has a mask, thats all.

I'm pro new model, I'm anti ignorant complaints.

[StinkyPygmy]

6 minutes ago, TheChaotic1 said:

The grineer part is there because people asked for a charger specifically, so they literally gave us a charger. Like, thats what a charger IS, there is no other flavor of charger. The lore outright says that all this stuff is replicated. They can replicate moas why not plastic? How do you think all those grineer corpses got onto the corpus ships?

  Hide contents

 

Because gameplay conveniences, Infested grineer/corpus ships actively coming into contact with other areas etc. Theres a tonne of explanation for infested of different factions ending up in strange places. I've seen nothing that indicates the infested can replicate specific types of DNA structures in the lore. Only boilers contradict this and boilers have always been silly from a practice stand point. 

Regardless, everything about this seems placehodler-ish. from the kubrow animations to the kubrow barks etc.

[TheChaotic1]

Or you could go with the simple explanation that's from the actual lore? That the infestation generates its troops from biomass.

And what do you mean they can't replicate DNA, the lore on ancients is that they are all the same woman? Literally the same woman.

[TheChaotic1]

34 minutes ago, TheChaotic1 said:

They were Lorist Infested, my sister the healer, remade as monster and here to kill us.

 

[IggySnow]

2 minutes ago, TheChaotic1 said:

Yes they would have, that was the plan all along, they are only changing it because people would rather it now have those parts. Yes there was a lot of hot garbage in the implementation, but its a charger, its what they said we were getting, its what its called in the lore. Its what was asked for by a loud group of members.

I am not justifying anything, it doesn't have to make sense honestly, but the thing is it DOES fit warframes lore. I am just here to explain why it has a mask, thats all.

I'm pro new model, I'm anti ignorant complaints.

they should have just made it a skin instead of an entire new pet. At least when it comes to skins DE doesn't have to worry about lore. they can just let you use the kubro you want and make it look like a charger.

[TheChaotic1]

1 minute ago, HerpDerpy said:

they should have just made it a skin instead of an entire new pet. At least when it comes to skins DE doesn't have to worry about lore. they can just let you use the kubro you want and make it look like a charger.

Honestly I totally agree with that because I'd much rather get to use my Huras and have it be infested. The hyekka skin was a great addition.

[StinkyPygmy]

10 minutes ago, TheChaotic1 said:

Or you could go with the simple explanation that's from the actual lore? That the infestation generates its troops from biomass.

And what do you mean they can't replicate DNA, the lore on ancients is that they are all the same woman? Literally the same woman.

Its her consciousness, not her specifically. She is the infested in the same way everyone infested is. Its a hivemind, all consciousnesses melded into one. But from a physical perspective, nothing states they can replicate Physical DNA from nothing.

Kind of like the selucids  in system shock 2. They mutate matter and bend it to their will, but they are all of one mind.

Edited December 31, 2016 by StinkyPygmy

[TheChaotic1]

3 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Its her consciousness, not her specifically. She is the infested in the same way everyone infested is. Its a hivemind, all consciousnesses melded into one. But from a physical perspective, nothing states they can replicate Physical DNA from nothing.

And yet there are tons of infested healers, each with a lora device. And its not from nothing, its the template. This is basic hive mind stuff man.

Also, she ONLY sensed her sister in the healers, not in the other riff raff, if she was sensing her mind only she'd get it from all of them

Edited December 31, 2016 by TheChaotic1

[StinkyPygmy]

11 minutes ago, TheChaotic1 said:

And yet there are tons of infested healers, each with a lora device. And its not from nothing, its the template. This is basic hive mind stuff man.

Because there is likely many, many lorists that were infected over the fall of the empire? And they naturally survive much longer then others as they can regenerate faster.

Replication isn't by default linked with every hive mind race in fiction. The only two examples I can think of is the zerg and tyranids and even they NEED biomass, and it has to be the appropriate biomass to replicate strains. They can't just mutate anything into whatever they want and can only work with what they are given.

She had a connection with her sister. not anyone else, so no wonder she only sensed her sister. ATemplate is just a blueprint, a plan, but you still need the right materials.

Edited December 31, 2016 by StinkyPygmy
replied to some added stuff.