schilds

Do you really believe that most of the people who bring up level cap in discussions on the forums actually play to level cap? Good one!

And they said Warframe choices don't matter! The feedback subforum is probably appropriate.

I'm not going to continue an argument with someone who compares losing one chance out of eight for a virtual item to losing a job and a house. Our values are too different and we're clearly not ever going to see eye to eye (nor do I particularly want to).

You're comparing virtual items with a job and a home? And it's not even the case you won't get *any* of them at all. We're talking missing out just one chance out of eight to equip a frame + weapon of your choice. If you don't play that many frames in the first place, that's not some kind of great sacrifice.

See that "if" and that "want" (my emphasis). You don't *need* the extra chance at a shard/arcane. I got bored of Kahl's missions (with an even more restrictive loadout) and stopped playing them, meaning I gave up an archon shard each week. People who don't like rng loadouts have the same choice with DA. They don't even have to skip the whole game mode. They can take a frame and weapon of their choice and still get *more* rewards from doing DA than they would from regular netracells. It's a tradeoff. The tradeoff is efficiency. Besides: they're going to cap their arcanes, and we're talking people who play a limited number of frames and definitely don't "need" so many shards.

Ok, so I just realised the loadout restrictions change *daily* even though DA is *weekly*. Not sure that's intended, but it means you have far more options available to you. So any lone picture of 9 terrible weapon options needs to be 7 such pictures, one for each day of the week :P. [edit] Just read the patch notes and I guess it wasn't intended.

Yep.

I got halfway through the exterminate without hiding in a corner, which is enough to prove to me that Banshee can 1) kill stuff and 2) survive in a *group* without hiding. I don't recall you saying anything about solo, that was just me running a test. She can contribute more than her fair share. Simply having more people around in a group makes it far easier to survive. Higher enemy density makes it easier to keep up on energy too. If you want, I'll play with my build and practice at it until I can complete the whole thing solo with Banshee and take a screenie for you :P. Oh, and my Amphis is not even fully modded ... I mean, why am I even using an Amphis. I could just stick the Torid on and take the last restriction. Here we go, exterminate done with all the restrictions except the primary swapped out for the Torid: For all you know, though, I took half an hour and hid in every corner :-P.

I didn't get Banshee for my rng loadout, but I *did* equip her and weapons from that screenshot with all but one restriction and and try her out solo in DA (which you can replay as often as you like). You know how I've been saying all along you're not *forced* to take a loadout? Hey, guess what, not only can you take your favourite loadout along, you can *also* take along the loadout someone else claims will require you hide in the corner .... Like .. I mean it's as if I have the freedom to equip whatever I want! Magic!

That player doesn't have to hide in a corner without a weapon, so what exactly am I "coping" with? [edit] So on testing it, at lvl 300 Banshee can kill just fine with the Amphis (I mean, she has armour strip and sonar, so ...) and she survives just fine with shield gate. So in fact, she can probably drop either the energy or operator debuff. Solo might be touch-and-go since you can't slip up, but in a squad she'll be fine without "hiding in a corner".

Why would a player need to hide in the corner with Banshee? Why would a player need to pray someone else has weapons when they can just take their own? We must be talking about a player who doesn't know how to mod and can't give up 50 vosfor.

1. You're late to the argument. This thread is old and at this point we're just regurgitating the same points. 2. You're taking things way out of context here. The context is that people were claiming that they are being "forced" into accepting all restrictions. My use of "optional" is in response to their use of "forced". The restrictions are optional. You don't have to tick them, and given that the top reward is 50 vosfor (back at the start of the argument we thought it would be a legendary arcane) then the fomo is close to nil and you are entirely free to take one thing of your choice. I won't say totally nil because there's probably someone who can't give up even the tiniest of rewards - but quite frankly I don't' have a lot of sympathy for someone who feels that 50 vosfor "forces" them to play with all restrictions. That was my entire point. I'm not arguing that rng loadouts are fun. Just that you are not being *forced* into it.

Luckily you can run a weapon or frame of your choice and all you'll miss out is 50 vosfor.

Yes they did. We were told the rewards were netracell rewards.

Would have been nicer implemented as additional in-mission options: hacking a console, using the scanner to spot a trail, etc.

There's no overall meta, but there are specific metas (e.g. optimising tricaps) and certain aspects of builds which have metas. Some popular things currently include: Incarnon weapons. Viral + slash, armour stripping, status stacking. Nuke + speed builds. The use of some combination of invulnerability windows (health/shield gate, vazarin, etc), invisibility, mobility, and crowd control to survive at higher levels. Taking meme loadouts to level cap (if you take a "proper" loadout to level cap, the hardest part is staying awake). Regarding those frames: Saryn builds for range. The rest depends on what you're doing. Wisp typically builds for strength. The rest depends on what you're doing. Nova, look up "m.prime inherit nuke" or similar for her flavour of the month. Ember spams 3 + 4, probably does some heat inherit thing with Archon Vitality and (as suggested by someone above) an AoE complementary ability like Breach Surge. Nidus wants strength and range. At higher levels would probably build to stack Mutation as fast as possible for his Undying passive (a kind of health gate).

Having gone over it a few times, the way it's described makes it sound like an additional reward that is a guaranteed legendary, rather than an existing reward being promoted to a guaranteed legendary. In that case it won't replace the chance for a shard. Either way, it also looks like rng legendaries are in the lower tier rewards and we can complete the arcane sets without the highest restrictions. The guaranteed one lets you complete your set faster or farm more for trading.

I see this thread is still going. Come the 27th of March, a whole bunch of people will look back at this thread and ask themselves why they got so worked up ("muh freedumbs") over an un-exciting arcane drop. Will the game mode be fun, challenging or well designed? Maybe, maybe not. That will depend on the *in mission gameplay* (that we currently know nothing about) more than the *optional* rng restrictions (which are merely a starting point).

No. The top tier is guaranteed to be a legendary. You can/will get legendaries due to rng in the lower tier rewards anyway.

That's a good question and without knowing exactly, I'll probably use 3 up and save 2 for the new mode. At worst they'll reset and I'll have wasted 2 regular netracell runs.

Ahem. About a page back ... I'm not directly quoting it because it's not my intention to ping and annoy the person who said it :P. Also, the bold formatting is my emphasis.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Duplex_Bond

I am not the one who keeps bringing rewards into the discussion. An assumption would be if there was *no prior reference* to rewards and then I brought them up. Instead, the debates go like this: Someone: We are being forced into rng loadouts, that's no fun. Me: You're not being forced, it's optional, you can just uncheck the box for whichever restriction you want. Them: To get the legendary arcanes, I need to tick all the boxes. See that last line? *That* is why a discussion of rewards, and whether people truly need them is relevant. *I* am not assuming it's relevant to other people. *Other people* are telling me that it's relevant. I wouldn't be talking about rewards at all, otherwise. If rewards are not relevant to *your* points in this discussion, fine, but then you can't claim to speak for the other people I have been arguing with. Yeah I get it. When you have nothing better to say, out comes the personal commentary. "Hallucinations" is a term used by me to refer *specifically* to stories invented about me. Nothing else. The OP, for example, does not know me, has not played any games with me, probably hasn't even looked at my profile, and yet somehow came up with a tale about me, steel path, and level cap (or lack thereof). That's his personal commentary, an invention, and irrelevant to the substance of the discussion. It's only purpose is to flex and put me down so my opinion can be dismissed. I don't apologise for calling such inventions "hallucinations". It is common in discussions to seek clarification on what people mean. Where someone has *assumed* I mean more than what I actually said, it is natural to set the record straight. Typically, people are taking my part on the opposite side in the *narrow* debate about being "forced" to mean I am on the opposite side on *everything*. That's not true. When people make that assumption and speak it out aloud as if I said it, then they are "putting words in my mouth". It is not disingenuous to clarify what my position is, and qualify my statements as specific references to the debate on "forcing" rather than a wider debate on rng.

I mean, I actually see from Traumtulpe and Raikh, that for *some* people, the reward is the priority, and the fun part. Fair enough. If you have already set that as your priority, I can see that you might feel pressured. Still, like many other things in Warframe, I think it's just a matter of telling yourself that you don't need it *right now*. You can be *patient*. Is that being somewhat unsympathetic? Maybe, but I see it largely as a *you* problem, and while fomo *is* something to be wary of, this is not true fomo in the sense that *right now* is your only chance to get the reward otherwise you've missed out forever. That's how it is in other games, with other devs. Not this softly softly "I feel pressured", "whip me with a lettuce leaf" stuff that DE pulls, but actually locking players out. That said, I'm not saying don't express your opinion or give feedback. Maybe it'll keep DE in check so they don't become those other devs :-P. I just think people are exaggerating. As for the discussion about whether rng *in general* is fun or "difficult", it might surprise some of you (who spend all your time hallucinating things about me rather than reading my posts) to find I don't necessarily disagree.

I've already been over this with someone else. This is not my point. Don't put words in my mouth. The "it's optional" is specifically in context of people claiming "it's forced because I need those two arcanes right now". No it's not because no you don't. That's entirely an issue of your own headspace. Those two arcanes don't gain you access to any particularly novel gameplay. You will get those two arcanes over time through rng at lower tiers of restrictions anyway. At gold tier, from the stream, it appears you will easily be able to take a frame and weapon of your choice. See. it really is optional. I'm not saying "it's optional, don't play the game mode". I'm saying "accepting *all* restrictions to your loadout is optional". You are not prevented from playing the game mode. You are not prevented getting the legendary arcanes. Some of you are talking about the restrictions and the guaranteed legendary as if they comprise the entire new game mode. They don't. Furthermore, none of us knows what the actual in-mission gameplay entails. It could be boring rubbish, for all we know, but it may *not* be. Well so glad that's not my take then! Maybe I'll engage with you further when you stop hallucinating.