Nidus, armor not working?

[Xephier223]

So I've been running some higher end missions with Nidus, and his base armor is ok, not the best, but even with that it feels like I am taking a lot more damage than I should be, even with steel fiber it feels like he is taking a ton more damage than he should be... Can anyone confirm or anything or am I just being paranoid?

 

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, Xephier223 said:

Well it is not even that, even for warframes when their shield is broken, it still feels like they can take more hits than him or are far less squishy. 

It may feel like that because when your shields are broken you subconsciously avoid taking fire. Also, shields regenerate even when you take damage and absorb some more damage. During long missions, even low amounts of shields can absorb tens of thousands of damage. For this reason, even Inaros's heath seems to do down extremely fast and you need to regen very often. It's not surprising at all in the case of Nidus. There are also enemies that have puncture and slash damage (corpus and infested) that tear health much faster than shields.

[Yagamilight123]

Paranoid .

[Xephier223]

6 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

It may feel like that because when your shields are broken you subconsciously avoid taking fire. Also, shields regenerate even when you take damage and absorb some more damage. During long missions, even low amounts of shields can absorb tens of thousands of damage. For this reason, even Inaros's heath seems to do down extremely fast and you need to regen very often. It's not surprising at all in the case of Nidus. There are also enemies that have puncture and slash damage (corpus and infested) that tear health much faster than shields.

Well no literally standing there and taking rifle fire, not avoiding or anything it just feels like he is squishier... Way squishier than he should be

 

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, Xephier223 said:

Well no literally standing there and taking rifle fire, not avoiding or anything it just feels like he is squishier... Way squishier than he should be

 

What kind of rifles? Something tells me those weren't with Impact type damage...

[Xephier223]

6 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

What kind of rifles? Something tells me those weren't with Impact type damage...

With all enemy types, like I said in my prior posts, going into multiple missions with a frame as close as I can get to Nidus, and then Nidus himself, In all scenarios Nidus just feels more squishy.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, Xephier223 said:

With all enemy types, like I said in my prior posts, going into multiple missions with a frame as close as I can get to Nidus, and then Nidus himself, In all scenarios Nidus just feels more squishy.

You should forget stuff like "feels". Grab him, go to Simulacrum. Then compare him to other frames that have like 300, 740, 1100 shields and so on. Only then you can draw real conclusions. Even I can say "Loki feels too squishy" after maining Chroma for a long time, lmao.

[Xephier223]

1 minute ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

You should forget stuff like "feels". Grab him, go to Simulacrum. Then compare him to other frames that have like 300, 740, 1100 shields and so on. Only then you can draw real conclusions. Even I can say "Loki feels too squishy" after maining Chroma for a long time, lmao.

That is where I've been testing it, but with the constant regen it is hard to get a solid number. to say yay or nay on it

 

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, Xephier223 said:

That is where I've been testing it, but with the constant regen it is hard to get a solid number. to say yay or nay on it

 

And one more thing. Corpus will absolutely tear Nidus apart. Their Puncture weapons do 50% more damage against Ferrite armor and also reduce 50% of your armor value when the damage is calculated. In comparison, most of the Grineer weapons will actually have negative damage bonus.

[Stoner]

That's what I noticed with Valkyr a couple weeks ago. I seem to take way more damage than before even with steel fiber. Wonder if there's any way to test it right now.. ?

[Xephier223]

7 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

And one more thing. Corpus will absolutely tear Nidus apart. Their Puncture weapons do 50% more damage against Ferrite armor and also reduce 50% of your armor value when the damage is calculated. In comparison, most of the Grineer weapons will actually have negative damage bonus.

I know this, this isn't about any specific weapon type though, regardless it probably is just me being paranoid about the new frame.

[Xephier223]

7 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

That's what I noticed with Valkyr a couple weeks ago. I seem to take way more damage than before even with steel fiber. Wonder if there's any way to test it right now.. ?

Normally going to the simulator place next to simarus is a good way to test and compare, but the problem is Nidus is constantly regenning health so it is hard to get an exact number.

[-N7-Leonhart]

2 minutes ago, Xephier223 said:

I know this, this isn't about any specific weapon type though, regardless it probably is just me being paranoid about the new frame.

The easiest way to check this is spawning a lvl 50 Heavy gunner and let it attack both Nidus and Valkyr, which have similar stats. Nidus should last longer due to regeneration. Other frames should be way squishier. When other frames will last way less, then your doubts will be cleared.

Edited January 5, 2017 by -BM-Leonhart

[Xephier223]

8 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

The easiest way to check this is spawning a lvl 50 Heavy gunner and let it attack both Nidus and Valkyr, which have similar stats. Nidus should last longer due to regeneration. Other frames should be way squishier. When other frames will last way less, then your doubts will be cleared.

Honestly comparing to inaros with steel fiber (which puts him 30 armor away at 420) is a decent base line for numbers themselves. plus no shield to interfere, and yeah it is just me being paranoid it seems. Inaros coming in at 239 damage a hit from a level 100 cleaver and Nidus coming in at roughly 223 (give or take 2 points). Tested with other melee based enemies since they're the easiest to get a single hit with (also tested with grineer snipers) Either way, it is just me being paranoid and perhaps in bad scenarios.

 

Editing this one because I messed up the tests, put in the correct values woops

Edited January 5, 2017 by Xephier223

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 minute ago, Xephier223 said:

Honestly comparing to inaros with steel fiber (which puts him 30 armor away at 420) is a decent base line for numbers themselves. plus no shield to interfere, and yeah it is just me being paranoid it seems. Inaros coming in at 239 damage a hit from a level 100 cleaver and Nidus coming in at roughly 154 (give or take 2 points). Tested with other melee based enemies since they're the easiest to get a single hit with (also tested with grineer snipers) Either way, it is just me being paranoid and perhaps in bad scenarios.

Seems so. Stuff like damage calculations are generally coded. It's unlikely there will be bugs with only some specific frames.

[Xephier223]

Just now, -BM-Leonhart said:

Seems so. Stuff like damage calculations are generally coded. It's unlikely there will be bugs with only some specific frames.

You're right and like I said it is likely just me being paranoid XD.

[Xephier223]

48 minutes ago, Yagamilight123 said:

Paranoid .

Oh noes not paranoia!!! Hehe, yeah probably =P But that's why I asked.

[ThunderZsolt]

4 hours ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

It may feel like that because when your shields are broken you subconsciously avoid taking fire. Also, shields regenerate even when you take damage and absorb some more damage. During long missions, even low amounts of shields can absorb tens of thousands of damage. For this reason, even Inaros's heath seems to do down extremely fast and you need to regen very often. It's not surprising at all in the case of Nidus. There are also enemies that have puncture and slash damage (corpus and infested) that tear health much faster than shields.

this is wrong. shields start to recharge after 3 seconds when damaged.
If the enemies aren't polite enough to wait your shield to regenerate and shoot you more frequently than 3 seconds, your shields never start to recharge. While damaged, you can only gain shields from shield restore consumables, warframe powers (blessing, shield polarize, volt 4th power with augment) and companions.
You can find this info even on the wiki: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Shield
And it was always like this (at least since 2013 when I started to play)

This is one of the main reasons why vitality >>>> redirection along with armor only protecting health, even on low armor frames. (except on mag, and maybe volt)

Shields only absorb meaningful damage, when you are actively restoring them (most notably trinity prime restoring with blessing, and applying damage reduction from both blessing and link).
On top of the 3 seconds recharge delay, for example if you have 1110 shields, it takes almost 16 seconds to fully recharge, and stops recharging when shot.

Nidus has 945 armor with steel fiber which provides 76% damage reduction, so his 1110HP with vitality equals more than 4k effective HP. With parasitic link he takes only 10% of the incoming damage (assuming he has enough power strength), boosting his EHP over 40k, close to Chroma levels.
He regenerates 13HP/second, +20HP/sec from the ult, or 40HP/sec if you have blind rage on him, for a total 33...50+ HP/second. I haven't finished forma'ing him (halfway leveled after the 3rd) so I only used him against lvl80-100 enemies, and I didn't even need to activate parasitic link (solo), and the numbers look promising. I'll do some footage on the weekend in mot (hopefully I can go over 1h first try)

[Kronxito]

6 hours ago, Xephier223 said:

So I've been running some higher end missions with Nidus, and his base armor is ok, not the best, but even with that it feels like I am taking a lot more damage than I should be, even with steel fiber it feels like he is taking a ton more damage than he should be... Can anyone confirm or anything or am I just being paranoid?

 

Use parasite (3rd ability) on an enemy for 90% damage absorbtion.

Always parasite must be active on lvl 100 missions. Better if you cast it on an armored or strong enemy.

Edited January 5, 2017 by ArionLightning

[Xephier223]

6 hours ago, ArionLightning said:

Use parasite (3rd ability) on an enemy for 90% damage absorbtion.

Always parasite must be active on lvl 100 missions. Better if you cast it on an armored or strong enemy.

This isn't anything to do with parasite or anything like that. This is something different entirely.

[Coaa]

Completely agree, thinking of replacing max steel fiber with maybe natural talent or more range/str. I noticed the exact same issues it doesn't appear to work well at all. He has decent armor, but it doesn't feel like it reduces dmg nearly as much as some of the other higher armor frames are.

[Rolunde]

In the last 2 months there have been a couple of other similar threads posted.

Valkyr prime seems very squishy...

Why do stats feel so useless or confined?

It might be worthwhile to look them over. 

In the end, it seems this is mostly a combination of wondering if something is working or not because it seems like it's not even if it is and the fact that from time to time we see things get fixed in the patch notes that probably most of us had no idea weren't even working. 

Damage can scale pretty quickly to the point that even if you're mitigating 90% of it, you can still get torn down pretty fast. 

I don't have math and numbers for that tho, just anecdotal evidence. 

Anyhow, cheers and happy hunting, tenno!
~R~

[LSG501]

ok coming back to this rather than starting a new thread. 

I said earlier I felt nidus was taking more damage than usual and it may be an intermittent thing depending on who's hosting.  I just did  the grineer snipetron invasion, level 30-40 enemies and in one of them he was taking so much damage it was stupid.   I've done level 30-40 with nidus and he's usually fine. as were the first two runs too, but for some reason the third time he was taking considerably more damage....  thats just not normal, especially when you consider health and armor.  

It wouldn't be the first time that something is bugged on non host computers....I suppose another option could have been bugged enemies but seemed more like it was nidus that was the issue. 

Wouldn't be a bad thing if the dev's just took a quick look at nidus/armor to see if there was anything broken....

Edited January 9, 2017 by LSG501

[kyori]

You are right. Something is wrong with his armor. I am surprised I was down pretty quickly in today's grineer interception. It was like I was playing loki lol

Did you send a ticket to support for this?

[saltygr33n]

On 1/4/2017 at 7:22 PM, -BM-Leonhart said:

And one more thing. Corpus will absolutely tear Nidus apart. Their Puncture weapons do 50% more damage against Ferrite armor and also reduce 50% of your armor value when the damage is calculated. In comparison, most of the Grineer weapons will actually have negative damage bonus.

I just noticed today while doing void mission level 30-40. I was getting wrecked everytime I get punctured, I died so fast even with a stack of 100 on nidus.

Funny thing, I've done level 100 sortie with nidus on defense, could tank better than level 30-40 void.

Darn punctures

Edited January 19, 2017 by saltygr33n

[-N7-Leonhart]

4 hours ago, saltygr33n said:

I just noticed today while doing void mission level 30-40. I was getting wrecked everytime I get punctured, I died so fast even with a stack of 100 on nidus.

Funny thing, I've done level 100 sortie with nidus on defense, could tank better than level 30-40 void.

Darn punctures

Also, you were probably doing a Void mission from the Sedna branch, right? Those are the remains of the old T4, that do 3x more damage compared to normal Corrupted units of the same level. And their starting levels are quite high even compared to the old T4.