Mag 8.3 Feedback

[S3ven0F13]

Before: Pull, Shield Polarize, Bullet Attractor, Crush.

 

After:

 

Pull: Pulls all targets (range 15,20,22,25  Damage: 25,35,40,50)

 

Scott's comments:

So Pull was a bit of an easy change, like Banshee Push. Pull now pulls all enemies on screen within a certain distance towards Mag. It also deals a small amount of damage. This removed the need to precisely target an enemy in the heat of combat.

 

Shield Polarize: Radial instead of single target. Radial damage around enemy targets that suffer shield drain. (Range(10,15,20,25), Shield(100,150,250,300))

 

Scott's comments:

Like Pull, this power suffered from single target focus and it was hard to cast in the heat of battle. It also wasn't worth casting on low level enemies because they died so quickly. To fix this I turned Shield Polarize into a radial power, making it much easier to use in the heat of battle.

 

Bullet Attractor: Now become volatile when target dies before attractor is finished, causing radial damage around dead target.(Damage 50,150,200,300)

 

Scott's comments:

 

Bullet attractor was great for Bosses terrible for regular enemies.  I think the new changes solve these issues by creating useful damage if the target it killed quickly.

Well why the constant range nerf on her ult? her ult used to have the furthest reach. now its the same as saryn's miasma. but with way weaker damage? why did scott do that?

[GTG3000]

Maybe he has anything in mind for her crush? Not to mention that it now has better CC.

[Enguzrad]

As a Mag player I'll throw in my opinion:

Pull - it's fine. Just add that nice idea that when you aim at player it pulls just him.

Polarize - I would appreciate if I could use it while I'm moving. And it could probably use a little buff.

Attractor - I think that it would be better if it just stunned enemies instead dealing damage. And I noticed that when I'm inside bubble, my shooting won't hurt the target. That is really annoying in enclosed space.

Crush - Damage scaling with armor of enemy is the best option in my opinion. With a reasonable cap of course.
 

[BoompigXD]

Were I to give Mag's abilities an evaluation as they stand...

 

Pull:Yeah, it's deadly if you pull a Toxic Ancient, but so is jumping into oncoming traffic; not a problem if you're being smart/creative about your positioning and usage

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, OH SWEET JESUS THANK YOU

[Archwizard]

I'm pretty sure that if Shield Polarize could prevent shield regeneration for a period, it would double up on its uses out in the field. If it could cause a full shield-disruption at max rank or temporarily increase the shield cap of allied frames, it could do wonders for its uses. It needs a unique facet that we can't do just by shooting the target with a sniper rifle.

 

Bullet Attractor, remove the explosion after-effect and just reduce the cost. Could seriously use a debug, since bullets originating inside of the bubble don't seem to deal any damage to the magnetized target. Consider, however briefly, some form of synergy with Banshee (which I honestly think is more of a fault of Sonar).

 

Crush, give it base armor ignore and rewrite its formula to deal more damage to higher-armored targets. Give the Mag some form of damage immunity while casting, or allow it to affect targets that enter while casting. As listed in my earlier-linked thread (bottom of the previous page), it has way too many disadvantages for far too few advantages.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Archwizard

[Preanette]

Wait...If Pull has 50 damage, and a Grineer Roller has 40 hp, why do they not explode when I pull them? If there is hp scaling, how much can a roller's hp scale?

 

And would you recommend Focus to solve this problem? Cos my plan with pull is pull and use my hate/orthos to sweep the floor with my enemies (Mag's Pride =D)

[MuhhhhKuh]

Another idea i had last time i used crush,

 

Why not to make it a charge ulti: as long as you press the key for crush, the skill should continues (enemies stay in the air), they should receive additional damage. Maybe max it at around 10 seconds or similar. Damage should scale with duration (maybe 1000/2sec NO armor ignore) .

If you have released the enemies, they should stay as small crushed cubes on the ground for half of the time they were hold in the air.

 

This would raise the damage (but not as high as armor ignore ulties, but with a nice CC), also you would have no possibility to shoot or run as long you have this skill in use,
unlike the Rino or Sayryns ulti were you can use it very quick and shoot / run around nearly immediatly.
Also no new enemies should be "grabbed" during the animation period.

 

What do you think about it?

 

Edit:

Also i think one could use this "charge" skill for Shield Polarize,

 

Press the button short, the current ammount of shields would be added / drained, hold it longer (maybe 2 sec) and it will recover / drain 150% of the shields, including "overload" the shields of mates to 150% for a period of time.

I think it would not be too strong because you cant walk around if you "load" the skill.

Edited August 8, 2013 by MuhhhhKuh

[Clessiah]

Another idea i had last time i used crush,

 

Why not to make it a charge ulti: as long as you press the key for crush, the skill should continues (enemies stay in the air), they should receive additional damage. Maybe max it at around 10 seconds or similar. Damage should scale with duration (maybe 1000/2sec NO armor ignore) .

If you have released the enemies, they should stay as small crushed cubes on the ground for half of the time they were hold in the air.

 

This would raise the damage (but not as high as armor ignore ulties, but with a nice CC), also you would have no possibility to shoot or run as long you have this skill in use,

unlike the Rino or Sayryns ulti were you can use it very quick and shoot / run around nearly immediatly.

Also no new enemies should be "grabbed" during the animation period.

 

What do you think about it?

 

Edit:

Also i think one could use this "charge" skill for Shield Polarize,

 

Press the button short, the current ammount of shields would be added / drained, hold it longer (maybe 2 sec) and it will recover / drain 150% of the shields, including "overload" the shields of mates to 150% for a period of time.

I think it would not be too strong because you cant walk around if you "load" the skill.

I thought about those also. But I'm sure there are other ways to have the same level of support without requiring a new mechanic, especially when people will certainly not appreciate the immobility when an ability takes too long to execute(the holding).

[GTG3000]

Mag could be retooled to be the CC frame. Her pull is great already, and she could have an ability to strip shields in a chain reaction (would be cool indeed, expecially if the explosions can retrigger the ones who exploded already, a spammable single-target bullet barrier (BA isn't worth 75 energy as it is), and an ability to make the whole room crawl around for some time, that Crush could become.

 

Then continuity would be viable again, with crush, disabling foes based on it.

[Obould66]

I think that Mag would be good as pure CC frame. 

 

Pull and shield polarize are good enough right now 

 

Bullet Attractor: a radial stun instead of the 300 damage would be far more useful

                          changing the radius to 10-20-30-40 would allow to choose between boss fight and CC

 

Crush: radial knokdown (range 15/15/20/25) dealing 1000 damage at all level reduced by enemy armor (at higt level is insignificant) 

           shorter cast time (like loki's radial disarm)

[Sdrobo]

I don't like how Pull changed. I don't find it usefull at all. If I want to damage enemies i use Crash or bullet attractor, not Pull. The most usefull thing Pull did was stripping shields off from the grineers. No more. The aiming issues are now solved, but... what's the logic in taking a group of angry enemies around you? Pulling allies is no more possible...

 

I don't use pull any more, since the update...

[GTG3000]

Well, pull is a very powerfull cc. The rest is the problem of weapon balance.

[Archwizard]

I don't like how Pull changed. I don't find it usefull at all. If I want to damage enemies i use Crash or bullet attractor, not Pull. The most usefull thing Pull did was stripping shields off from the grineers. No more. The aiming issues are now solved, but... what's the logic in taking a group of angry enemies around you? Pulling allies is no more possible...

 

I don't use pull any more, since the update...

Consider Pull less for the damage and more for the crowd-control. Capped out and with a range mod (which gives it a whopping 58 yard range on a 180 degree cone), you can stand on one end of the room, face the other, cast it and stun everything in it.

If you're big into Crush (which I find confusing in its current state, but to each his own), you can use Pull to increase the number of enemies affected by your Crush (walk to the center of the room, cast Pull twice facing opposite directions, gather everyone, Crush away), or to set up for anyone else's ultimate skill.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Archwizard

[Archwizard]

Crush, give it base armor ignore and rewrite its formula to deal more damage to higher-armored targets. Give the Mag some form of damage immunity while casting, or allow it to affect targets that enter while casting. As listed in my earlier-linked thread (bottom of the previous page), it has way too many disadvantages for far too few advantages.

 

Actually the more I think about it, the more I think a percentage-based armor reduction debuff would work for Crush, over rewriting the formula to deal more damage. It would provide the ability a large amount of utility.

 

By how much is hard to say; 50% is a safe number but somewhat lacking when one considers that 1. it only affects health, not shields and 2. only exceeds Molecular Prime for targets with low armor, for a portion of the range, a longer cast and... I'll just re-link this thread for the lazy, to sum it up: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/87813-something-must-be-done-with-crush/

Granted, if Crush were given Physics Impact damage to go with this debuff and made Mag immune to damage or affected targets within the radius at any point during the cast, then the damage would clean house at low level and the debuff would have its place on higher level maps. 

 

Personally, I think it would be interesting to have a short period (say, comparable to Blessing's immunity) where the armor on targets is completely removed, sapped down to zero, or Crush otherwise made all attacks against affected targets ignore armor for a short period. It would fit thematically and with the description, be more effective on high-armored targets than lower ones, give the ability a niche as something no other class can do... and given Crush's incredibly short range compared to other ultimates, isn't really overpowered (since for maximum effectiveness, you already have to cast Pull, upping the effective cost).

Edited August 10, 2013 by Archwizard

[Mietz]

Pull is great CC...for like equal level enemies.

 

Once you get into content where enemies can oneshot your shields you don't want them near your knees.

 

I would remove the vortex effect (the pulling, not the damage) from Vauban and give it to Mag, she could put down CC fields instead of pulling all the threat indiscriminately towards her.

 

i.e. its U9.5 mag still blows

[Zed993]

A step in the right direction but not enough.

 

1. Pull is much better but needs either a dmg increase or cause the enemies to be disoriented for longer after the pull so they cannot stand up so quickly.

 

2. Shield Polarize will always be junk against anything except Corpus without further changes. (and even against them it's still really bad). It should restore 100% of all allies shields and either:

 

A) Cause short-term bullet reflection on allies; meaning anything shot at them gets reflected back to the sender, which would fit with Mag's theme. (Yes this means only melee, explosions, fire and poison clouds can hurt you)

 

B) Give all allies a shield overcharge which would work like Rhino's Iron Skin.

Example: A frame with 1000 max shields would be given an overcharge of 1000 for a total of 2000 shields. These shields would stay until enemy or self dmg depletes the shields to 1000 or below and from then on they would work as normal. This would be based on either a static amount of added shields depending on the level of your Shield Polarize mod (e.g. +500 shield overcharge at level 3) or a percentage of the warframes max shields (e.g. a frame with 1000 gets an overcharge for 200% giving it 2000 shields at level 3). Numbers for the overcharge would have to be tweaked of course. I would say around 500 overcharge if going the static route, and 150% to 200% overcharge if percentage based.

 

3. Bullet Attractor is still bad and the damage is not nearly high enough. It should be changed to an AoE around the caster and have the radial damage removed entirely. Radius and duration would have to be tweaked. I'm thinking somewhere in the 15 to 20 meter range and 15 second duration.

 

4. Crush is currently useless above relatively low levels against anything except light infested as well as having a horrendously slow cast time. It should have its radius increased to what it was before. (Seriously, why was this changed?). It should also deal physical impact damage (armor ignoring); which would make sense and balance it. Lastly, reduce the cast time to half of what it currently is.

 

And there you go, Mag is on par with the other frames in the game.

[Enguzrad]

My current view of things:

Pull - it's fine. Just add that nice idea that when you aim at player it pulls just him. Also heavies should move lesser distance.

Polarize - I would appreciate if I could use it while I'm moving. It should restore / destroy more shields and stop them from regenerating for a while.

Attractor - I think that it would be better if it just stunned / ragdolled enemies instead dealing damage. Also fix that you can't hit attracted enemy when you are inside the bubble. And maybe make it a bit cheaper on energy.

Crush - Should bypass shields. Should apply a non-stacking debuff to the target before damage is assigned and until death, reducing it's armor by 50%. Damage type stays normal. (Kobalt's idea)

[Preanette]

Mag's posture has improved. I also like her stationary animation.

[CapricaSix]

Mag's posture has improved. I also like her stationary animation.

Really? It looked like every single WF got different animations except for Mag, maybe it's just me but the idle animation with two handed rifles look exactly the same as before to me lol. Might be slightly different, haven't noticed.

[GTG3000]

Try idles in the dojo.

[Clessiah]

Really? It looked like every single WF got different animations except for Mag, maybe it's just me but the idle animation with two handed rifles look exactly the same as before to me lol. Might be slightly different, haven't noticed.

Compare to Excalibur if you have one. Excalibur is the only one using old idle animation at the moment.

[CapricaSix]

Compare to Excalibur if you have one. Excalibur is the only one using old idle animation at the moment.

Oh yeah, that one too. But I'm almost positive that Mag's two-handed rifle stance is the same as before. Can't speak for the other animations as I've only checked it in the arsenal. I was just expecting something more... Mag like.

[Enguzrad]

I'm using despair as secondaries and their idle animation is awsome. I made a screenshot:

[Clessiah]

I'm using despair as secondaries and their idle animation is awsome. I made a screenshot:

and THIS is totally Mag-like

[CapricaSix]

Yep, no arguments there :P