Why Conclave Sucks and How To Fix It: ONE CHANGE ONLY

[Stormdragon]

3 minutes ago, Witchydragon said:

they did, it's called call of duty

pls fact check before making a post

Counter Strike works too, I guess I should have added a little "/s" at the end since a corpus v/s grineer would be basically that, CoD, CS, BF, or any generic FPS shooter with a warframe themed skin and a third person camera.

Edited April 3, 2017 by -Stormdragon

[MechaHex]

4 minutes ago, Witchydragon said:

they did, it's called call of duty

a CoD mode in Warframe would be pretty cool.

[SevenLetterKWord]

11 hours ago, MechaHex said:

a CoD mode in Warframe would be pretty cool.

[----Legacy----]

12 hours ago, MechaHex said:

a CoD mode in Warframe would be pretty cool.

A warframe mode in cod would be cool too, but since both are different games none of these makes sny sense

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

On 08/02/2017 at 0:03 AM, Xaxma said:

Remove the ability to jump.

 

hell no

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

hell no

Exactly. Can you all say massacre? :)

[(PSN)Flatulent_Draco]

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 7:22 AM, Stormdragon said:

It would result in the skill ceiling becoming higher and I'm sure that it's NOT what you are looking for. 

Yeah I didn't think it out sorry. Anyway as far as PvP goes the only thing that could close the 'skill gap' would be to put an anti-spam cooldown on bullet jumping itself, nothing else. Though even that wouldn't pan out well after a while.

Edited April 10, 2017 by (PS4)Benjamin_Draco
wording

[Dauragin]

many people will disagree with you, but it makes sense since it is a PvP mode you're talking about. Most of the people here don't want your idea because they're afraid that if jumpin (bullet jumping is taken off in PvP they won't be as good at dodging (strafing). when you look at how people play in conclave they're focused on bullet jumping and getting their crosshairs on you, and that's the easiest way. It's not really skill based in my opinion since when they bullet jump out of trouble it's easier for them to focus. Cowards who jump away from trouble so that they can aim without being under pressure, as to if there was no bullet jumping, or it is limited, players are forced to face enemies in a face to face engagements which would test their actual skill under pressure while getting damaged. Whoever has better aim and better strafing, better strategy, wins. It's simple. The reason why there are barely anyone playing Conclave is because it's different from other PvP games out there. Different isn't always a good thing especially when it comes to gameplay mechanisms for competitive modes. This is why Warframe's PvP will never make it to be as known as other f2p games out there. It's unbalanced, it's not as fun, it's full of flaws. Might as well just delete the game mode. If they were to put a PvP mode in Warframe, they should've at least made it great and PLAYABLE.

[Dauragin]

Most of the Xbox One and PS4 players here don't know what they're talking about since they don't know how Conclave is on PC. \

please consider the controls scheme on a keyboard and mouse. 

Ctrl + Space is easy to spam and it's easy to spam while aiming unlike in controllers.

[Heckzu]

30 minutes ago, Dauragin said:

It's not really skill based in my opinion since when they bullet jump out of trouble it's easier for them to focus. Cowards who jump away from trouble so that they can aim without being under pressure,

In high skill matches, bullet jumping to run isn't very effective. Try running away from someone like Phasedragon; you have a higher chance of surviving by shooting back than you do trying to run. You cannot bullet jump in a direction other than the direction your crosshair is facing. This means that in order to keep bullet jumping forward, you limit your ability to shoot back, whereas a pursuer may shoot at you while bullet jumping. At an even skill level, the pursuer has an advantage over the runner.

Here's what I'm talking about:

Spoiler

 

35 minutes ago, Dauragin said:

players are forced to face enemies in a face to face engagements which would test their actual skill under pressure while getting damaged. Whoever has better aim and better strafing, better strategy, wins. It's simple.

You mean whoever has the higher DPS weapon wins the match. Warframe's TTK (Time to Kill) values are significantly higher than mainstream shooters. Without bullet jumping, there's no real need for twitch aiming or tracking ability because the high TTK  allows you to survive if your reaction speeds are a tad slower than the other players'. Spread in Warframe is negligible given how small Conclave's maps are, which would ultimately leave the match up to the players' weapon DPS.

37 minutes ago, Dauragin said:

The reason why there are barely anyone playing Conclave is because it's different from other PvP games out there.

No, that's not the main reason. Warframe has always been advertised as a PvE game, which obviously leads to a PvE focused player base. Had Warframe planned to have Conclave at its inception, things may have turned out different. There are a few GunZ the duel ex-players who play Conclave, the game that can be considered most similar to Conclave but was ultimately shut down in 2013, the same year Warframe was released. Had DE planned for Conclave and Parkour 2.0 since the inception of Warframe, then perhaps a majority of the GunZ player base would have switched over to Warframe's Conclave. But unfortunately that's not what happened, and Conclave came too late to take that opportunity.

The reason there are few people playing Conclave is due to the player base being mostly casual or non-competitive players which resulted from Warframe being advertised as a pure PvE game. There is very little incentive for competitive PvP players to want to play a casual PvE game, and DE doesn't advertise Conclave so no one besides current Warframe players know about it.

46 minutes ago, Dauragin said:

It's unbalanced, it's not as fun, it's full of flaws. Might as well just delete the game mode. If they were to put a PvP mode in Warframe, they should've at least made it great and PLAYABLE.

Your post is full of incorrect statements, it's biased, it's full of flaws. Might as well just delete your forum account. If you're going to try to argue with people, you should've at least given evidence to support your claims.

[Dauragin]

5 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

In high skill matches, bullet jumping to run isn't very effective. Try running away from someone like Phasedragon; you have a higher chance of surviving by shooting back than you do trying to run. You cannot bullet jump in a direction other than the direction your crosshair is facing. This means that in order to keep bullet jumping forward, you limit your ability to shoot back, whereas a pursuer may shoot at you while bullet jumping. At an even skill level, the pursuer has an advantage over the runner.

Here's what I'm talking about:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

You mean whoever has the higher DPS weapon wins the match. Warframe's TTK (Time to Kill) values are significantly higher than mainstream shooters. Without bullet jumping, there's no real need for twitch aiming or tracking ability because the high TTK  allows you to survive if your reaction speeds are a tad slower than the other players'. Spread in Warframe is negligible given how small Conclave's maps are, which would ultimately leave the match up to the players' weapon DPS.

No, that's not the main reason. Warframe has always been advertised as a PvE game, which obviously leads to a PvE focused player base. Had Warframe planned to have Conclave at its inception, things may have turned out different. There are a few GunZ the duel ex-players who play Conclave, the game that can be considered most similar to Conclave but was ultimately shut down in 2013, the same year Warframe was released. Had DE planned for Conclave and Parkour 2.0 since the inception of Warframe, then perhaps a majority of the GunZ player base would have switched over to Warframe's Conclave. But unfortunately that's not what happened, and Conclave came too late to take that opportunity.

The reason there are few people playing Conclave is due to the player base being mostly casual or non-competitive players which resulted from Warframe being advertised as a pure PvE game. There is very little incentive for competitive PvP players to want to play a casual PvE game, and DE doesn't advertise Conclave so no one besides current Warframe players know about it.

Your post is full of incorrect statements, it's biased, it's full of flaws. Might as well just delete your forum account. If you're going to try to argue with people, you should've at least given evidence to support your claims.

well you see I'm entitled to my own opinion aren't I? :) and what you tell doesn't necessarily have to be followed. why would I delete my account? cus you said so? I don't think so lol It's my opinion which I only agreed to the main topic, not yours. your opinion doesn't matter to me, but thanks for your attention at least I know some of you are affected HAHA

[Heckzu]

26 minutes ago, Dauragin said:

well you see I'm entitled to my own opinion aren't I? :)

Yes, but if you're going to make a statement on a feedback forum, opinions based on incorrect information are pretty much worthless.

26 minutes ago, Dauragin said:

what you tell doesn't necessarily have to be followed. why would I delete my account? cus you said so? I don't think so lol It's my opinion which I only agreed to the main topic, not yours. your opinion doesn't matter to me, but thanks for your attention at least I know some of you are affected HAHA

Did you not notice how the format of those three sentences follow the exact same format as your three sentences? It's a satire. If my opinion doesn't matter to you, why would quote it and respond to it? "Thanks for your attention at least I know you are affected HAHA"

Edited April 12, 2017 by Heckzu

[SevenLetterKWord]

1 hour ago, Dauragin said:

when you look at how people play in conclave they're focused on bullet jumping and getting their crosshairs on you, and that's the easiest way. It's not really skill based in my opinion since when they bullet jump out of trouble it's easier for them to focus.

You literally just described core gameplay - mobility and aiming - and called it "not really skill based".

What kind of skill do you want to see?
Maybe damage should be dealt through the probabilistic analysis of poker hands?
Maybe Conclave should reward Oro depending on how many balls you can juggle?

We're playing a highly mobile shooter here, buddy.
Unsurprisingly, mobility and aiming are the primary components of skill.

1 hour ago, Dauragin said:

Cowards who jump away from trouble so that they can aim without being under pressure

This just sounds like plain, basic, uniodized salt.

Don't worry, though. I know what you really mean.
Other players keep escaping from disadvantageous engagements with you! (How dare they!)

Let me give you some advice:
The correct response is to develop your own skill at pursuing fleeing enemies.
The incorrect response is to complain on the forums and call them "cowards".

 

[Witchydragon]

1 hour ago, Dauragin said:

 HAHA

haha yes. 

Edited April 12, 2017 by Witchydragon

[Pazgabear]

I just want to point out that "strategy" as OP calls it, happens every time in Conclave

A duel doesn't boil down to "jump around like an idiot by spamming bullet jump and shoot randomly", a good player WILL use the environment to gain the upper hand in the fight (map knowledge), hoard the health/energy orbs before their opponent has a chance to take them (map control) and assess the situation depending on theirs and their opponent's equipment to get themself in a better position

If you get wrecked, try harder, or just stop Conclave altogether. If it's the conclave exclusives that you want, just get some friends to make a full party so you get your daily challenges and stop calling for changes for something you don't understand in the first place

[Dauragin]

21 hours ago, Heckzu said:

Yes, but if you're going to make a statement on a feedback forum, opinions based on incorrect information are pretty much worthless.

Did you not notice how the format of those three sentences follow the exact same format as your three sentences? It's a satire. If my opinion doesn't matter to you, why would quote it and respond to it? "Thanks for your attention at least I know you are affected HAHA"

well you've got a lot of time in your hands don't you lol

[Dauragin]

21 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

You literally just described core gameplay - mobility and aiming - and called it "not really skill based".

What kind of skill do you want to see?
Maybe damage should be dealt through the probabilistic analysis of poker hands?
Maybe Conclave should reward Oro depending on how many balls you can juggle?

We're playing a highly mobile shooter here, buddy.
Unsurprisingly, mobility and aiming are the primary components of skill.

This just sounds like plain, basic, uniodized salt.

Don't worry, though. I know what you really mean.
Other players keep escaping from disadvantageous engagements with you! (How dare they!)

Let me give you some advice:
The correct response is to develop your own skill at pursuing fleeing enemies.
The incorrect response is to complain on the forums and call them "cowards".

 

that's cool :)

[SevenLetterKWord]

30 minutes ago, Dauragin said:

that's cool :)

Thanks, lil' buddy, I think so too.
Glad you were able to come to your senses, tenuous and strained as they must be.
Give yourself a pat on the head, with regards from yours truly.

[-Jackson]

"Teehee I'm such a troll ecks-dee"

[-dicht.Seleszi-]

In my opinion stamina should be readded (ONLY AND ONLY TO PVP), that way it would stop the parkour spam

[--.69-JP3GMD-69.nVbs.--]

1 hour ago, oxalispescaprae said:

In my opinion stamina should be readded (ONLY AND ONLY TO PVP), that way it would stop the parkour spam

git gud maybe?

[-dicht.Seleszi-]

11 minutes ago, murdello said:

git gud maybe?

I don't play Conclave, but after reading the original post that's the idea that I thought about. My only experience with conclave was the tact alerts and some youtube videos

[Heckzu]

2 hours ago, oxalispescaprae said:

I don't play Conclave, but after reading the original post that's the idea that I thought about. My only experience with conclave was the tact alerts and some youtube videos

That's essentially no experience, then.

You shouldn't tell your doctor what he should prescribe to you because you read a few articles on webmd. 

Likewise, you shouldn't demand/suggest for something in the Conclave which you have no real understanding of.

[Mrniko95]

DE has no clue or idea how to do a PvP game , they've tried multiple times with no results , i'm trying to get into conclave but everytime i join there's always the flying turbo ninja rabbit guy with his rubico/paris and furis killing everyone taking advantage of his "skill" , not allowing new players to do S#&$. there should be indepedient ranks based on your skill ( for example rocket league , you win , you are promoted to another league and get matched  with more  experienced players but if you lose  : you get demoted from your rank therefore you are matched with low tier players, but hey! , you can always learn to be the turbo rabbit ninja player... 

[squidd]

On 4/12/2017 at 1:10 AM, Pazgabear said:

I just want to point out that "strategy" as OP calls it, happens every time in Conclave

A duel doesn't boil down to "jump around like an idiot by spamming bullet jump and shoot randomly", a good player WILL use the environment to gain the upper hand in the fight (map knowledge), hoard the health/energy orbs before their opponent has a chance to take them (map control) and assess the situation depending on theirs and their opponent's equipment to get themself in a better position

If you get wrecked, try harder, or just stop Conclave altogether. If it's the conclave exclusives that you want, just get some friends to make a full party so you get your daily challenges and stop calling for changes for something you don't understand in the first place

Great post, well said. Also, if anyone is getting wrecked and doesn't know how or why, please utilize resources. Ask more experienced players or even make a post on the Players Helping Players forum on this website.

59 minutes ago, Mrniko95 said:

DE has no clue or idea how to do a PvP game , they've tried multiple times with no results , i'm trying to get into conclave but everytime i join there's always the flying turbo ninja rabbit guy with his rubico/paris and furis killing everyone taking advantage of his "skill" , not allowing new players to do S#&$. there should be indepedient ranks based on your skill ( for example rocket league , you win , you are promoted to another league and get matched  with more  experienced players but if you lose  : you get demoted from your rank therefore you are matched with low tier players, but hey! , you can always learn to be the turbo rabbit ninja player... 

DE has created a fantastic blend of ninja-esque mobility and space war gunplay. PvE mode does not touch the game's potential in the least. The game mode has delivered great results in attracting a PvP fanbase that very much loves arena FPS and action games. I find that the main problem it has is the unfortunate placement of it within a horde shooter with so much developed emphasis on fashion and collectibles, which does not necessarily mean they are into quick arena FPS games. There is a large rift between the game modes that younger players just don't understand because they likely haven't been exposed to this high a skill requirement before. Games nowadays are piss easy, and I believe many Warframe players are upset that Conclave is not easy like those.

Also, for everyone hopping back onto the "jumping bunny ninja rabbit bullet jump fest" train, please understand that there are much faster games out there, with much faster players as targets and very few people complain about it. In fact, they seem super eager to learn how to hit those targets, and how to move at the quick pace like them.

Don't insult the developer for your inability to enjoy the game mode. You don't have to play it if you don't like it. The game is harder to learn than today's casual shooters, man up and accept it.

Edited April 17, 2017 by squidd