Add punishment for mission leeches

[FoxsongHD]

1 minute ago, Noamuth said:

How do you tell if someone has been leeching?  Most of the time, it's confirmed by the end of mission screen, showing no kills, no damage dealt or taken, etc.  

They have a valid concern about being dubbed a leech through no fault of their own. 

Leech as in doesn't help the team in anyways, you can usually tell whos leeching and whos not without looking at stats. If a trinity does nothing but Bless players that aren't braindead can tell and won't call you a leech. This isn't a hard thing to understand.

[MagPrime]

Just now, FoxsongHD said:

Leech as in doesn't help the team in anyways, you can usually tell whos leeching and whos not without looking at stats. If a trinity does nothing but Bless players that aren't braindead can tell and won't call you a leech. This isn't a hard thing to understand.

Getting snarky because you feel misunderstood isn't going to help your thread.  My point still stands however, based on what they posted, if you simply can't keep up with the team you can be considered a leech, even though they aren't.  If you're in a mission where certain abilities aren't needed will get you landed as a leech.  It's a no win situation.

 

[Eyrfith]

1 minute ago, FoxsongHD said:

Leech as in doesn't help the team in anyways, you can usually tell whos leeching and whos not without looking at stats. If a trinity does nothing but Bless players that aren't braindead can tell and won't call you a leech. This isn't a hard thing to understand.

If i put a snowglobe in a defense mission and do nothing for the rest of the mission, i'm leeching? While some leechers are obvious, others are quite debatables.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, MrBlas619 said:

If i put a snowglobe in a defense mission and do nothing for the rest of the mission, i'm leeching? While some leechers are obvious, others are quite debatables.

Or shield/speed Volts.  Doesn't take a lot of effort to pop those.  Still leeching?  Even if they aren't actively killing, just spamming abilities that gain the team no shared affinity?

[FoxsongHD]

1 minute ago, MrBlas619 said:

If i put a snowglobe in a defense mission and do nothing for the rest of the mission, i'm leeching? While some leechers are obvious, others are quite debatables.

I don't think you understand what I said. If someone has a role and is doing it but isn't getting as many kills if any as the other players they aren't a leech.

[FoxsongHD]

4 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

Getting snarky because you feel misunderstood isn't going to help your thread.  My point still stands however, based on what they posted, if you simply can't keep up with the team you can be considered a leech, even though they aren't.  If you're in a mission where certain abilities aren't needed will get you landed as a leech.  It's a no win situation.

 

You could say the same thing for the other things that are in the report options too, some people think someone talking too much is spam others feel they are just friendly, it differs on the person. You're point does still stand there are problems with the idea but theres problems with everything that would get someone punished but they still exist because its better to have the rule than no rule at all.

[Eyrfith]

3 minutes ago, FoxsongHD said:

I don't think you understand what I said. If someone has a role and is doing it but isn't getting as many kills if any as the other players they aren't a leech.

I'm frost, i'm defending, so it's ok if i don't get kills, then, i'm not leeching, did i misunderstand something?

Edited February 18, 2017 by MrBlas619

[FoxsongHD]

1 minute ago, MrBlas619 said:

I'm frost, i'm defending, so it's ok if i don't get kills, then, i'm not leeching, did i misunderstand something?

The way your question was worded seemed to me like you thought that I thought you were leeching if you were doing your job but not getting kills, sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Sintag]

Why not enforce a threshold that "All equipped gear must be level X" on a planet by planet basis?  Earth and Venus are Ranks 0-30, Mercury and Mars are 5-30, Phobos, Ceres and Jupiter are 10-30, Europa and Saturn are 15-30, Uranus and Neptune are 20-30, Pluto and Sedna are 25-30, and Eris (The go to planet for XP farms, as well as, lorewise, the place where we'd WANT to bring our strongest weapons) is ONLY 30?

 

Derelict is 25-30, Void paths follow their parent planet's rules.

Kuva Fortress is also 30 only, but this is a lore jistification; The Kweens' royal guards are there.

 

This would kill leeching dead as you ascended.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Sintag
Forgot that Phobos exists, as well as the Fortress.

[Eyrfith]

1 minute ago, FoxsongHD said:

The way your question was worded seemed to me like you thought that I thought you were leeching if you were doing your job but not getting kills, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Don't worry bro, we're here to debate and misunderstands can happen a lot, more so when you are reading text and can't hear the entonation and the way it is said.

What i mean is, where to draw the line between leeching and not? Some behaviors can be "disguised" as not leeching while they are, and vice versa.

[FoxsongHD]

1 minute ago, Sintag said:

Why not enforce a threshold that "All equipped gear must be level X" on a planet by planet basis?  Earth and Venus are Ranks 0-30, Mercury and Mars are 5-30, Ceres and Jupiter are 10-30, Europa and Saturn are 15-30, Uranus and Neptune are 20-30, Pluto and Sedna are 25-30, and Eris (The go to planet for XP farms, as well as, lorewise, the place where we'd WANT to bring our strongest weapons) is ONLY 30?

 

Derelict is 25-30, Void paths follow their parent planet's rules?

 

This would kill leeching dead as you ascended.

That would ruin xp farm, Im sorry but thats an awful idea. I don't mind someone bringing weapons to rank up in high levels, hell I do that myself in sorties and still manage most damage in almost all of them. This post is more aimed at the leeches that don't do anything to help the team and instead make you carry them, not because of them ranking stuff up but because of laziness

[Elyann]

The toxicity level is high in here...

[Sintag]

Just now, FoxsongHD said:

That would ruin xp farm, Im sorry but thats an awful idea. I don't mind someone bringing weapons to rank up in high levels, hell I do that myself in sorties and still manage most damage in almost all of them. This post is more aimed at the leeches that don't do anything to help the team and instead make you carry them, not because of them ranking stuff up but because of laziness

I didn't say my solution would be nice.  But if we're getting a bunch of spoiled little leeches in higher levels trying to purposefully make the team carry them so they can level their gear?  Fine.  This is why we can't have nice things.

As for those who try to make the team carry them, this is why we need a votekick in place, or a report category for "leeching".

[FoxsongHD]

Just now, MrBlas619 said:

Don't worry bro, we're here to debate and misunderstands can happen a lot, more so when you are reading text and can't hear the entonation and the way it is said.

What i mean is, where to draw the line between leeching and not? Some behaviors can be "disguised" as not leeching while they are, and vice versa.

I agree, there will be misunderstanding in both this discussion and in game deciding if someone is a leech or not. Its more or less that I would just like a report option in the report tab that would label them as someone that makes the other squad mates do the work while they just be lazy but in my opinion having the rule that leeching can get you in trouble is better than not having it. Sure I could just contact DE directly but its much better to just have something to report someone quickly to have them monitored.

[FoxsongHD]

Just now, Elyann said:

The toxicity level is high in here...

Its more or less passion rather than toxicity, I just hate having to do someones work because they would rather be lazy and wait at extraction the entire match while the others do their work. As petty as it is, I hate it and would like something to at least threaten them so stop.

[Eyrfith]

4 minutes ago, FoxsongHD said:

I agree, there will be misunderstanding in both this discussion and in game deciding if someone is a leech or not. Its more or less that I would just like a report option in the report tab that would label them as someone that makes the other squad mates do the work while they just be lazy but in my opinion having the rule that leeching can get you in trouble is better than not having it. Sure I could just contact DE directly but its much better to just have something to report someone quickly to have them monitored.

Problem, as some said before, if you can "label" someone as leecher that easy, what stops some rage kid from labeling you as leecher when you don't deserve it? Thin ice under us in this topic xD

[Sintag]

Second solution aimed less at the XP leeches and more aimed at leeches in general.

 

A four factor system that considers these four things.

 

Movement, shots that connect, Energy used, and 'effort'.

 

Movement - Move X distance in X time

Connecting shots - Land enough shots on targets in X time.  Shots on corpses will not count.  Shots can never exceed half a weapon's magazine.  Punch Through will count per bullets that hit anything past their first target.  Multishot will only count as a single 'shot.'.  Multikill will only count as one shot per corpse.

Energy used - To encourage casting abilities, use X Energy in X (+ Y) time, Y being the amount of time you were unable to cast (Knocked over, in a Nullifier field) so as not to make it unfair.  More efficiency will lower the energy requirement.

'Effort' - The total amalgamation of these three tiers.  Each is worth 33.4 percent.  After X time is up for all three, the pillars refresh timers and requirements.

All timers stop whenever extraction is available for all mission types except Survival.

At no point are you told any of these pillars or their requirements, or, indeed, their timers.  If you fail to put in at least 60% total 'Effort', the game...

 

Removes all affinity, credits, mods, and materials gained from that mission.  Plain and simple, the mission, for you, never happened.  You wasted your time.

Marks you as a 'leech', and puts you far lower in any queue to join missions.  Meeting the 'Effort' requirements for any mission will remove this mark and drop your penalty score by one as well.

 

If this keeps happening, say, 5 times in total, you will receive a warning.

At ten times, you will be given a one day ban.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Sintag

[Eyrfith]

Just now, Sintag said:

Second solution aimed less at the XP leeches and more aimed at leeches in general.

 

A four factor system that considers these four things.

 

Movement, shots that connect, Energy used, and 'effort'.

 

Movement - Move X distance in X time

Connecting shots - Land enough shots on targets in X time.  Shots on corpses will not count.  Shots can never exceed half a weapon's magazine.  Punch Through will count per bullets that hit anything past their first target.  Multishot will only count as a single 'shot.'.  Multikill will only count as one shot per corpse.

Energy used - To encourage casting abilities, use X Energy in X (+ Y) time, Y being the amount of time you were unable to cast (Knocked over, in a Nullifier field) so as not to make it unfair

'Effort' - The total amalgamation of these three tiers.  Each is worth 33.4 percent.  After X time is up for all three, the pillars refresh timers and requirements.

 

At no point are you told any of these pillars or their requirements, or, indeed, their timers.  If you fail to put in at least 60% total 'Effort', the game...

 

Removes all affinity, credits, mods, and materials gained from that mission.  Plain and simple, the mission, for you, never happened.  You wasted your time.

Marks you as a 'leech', and puts you far lower in any queue to join missions.

 

If this keeps happening, say, 5 times in total, you will receive a warning.

At ten times, you will be given a one day ban.

Then again, if i have some ubercleaning squad mate, i'm marked as leecher? I can move, yes, i can spend energy but if there aren't enemies near and i'm, an Excalibur for example, which doesn't have any ability useful without enemies, why should i spend it to not be marked as leecher, and risk myself to not have energy when i need it? And the final thing, what should i shoot? I don't think it would be fair.

[MagPrime]

Well, whatever system does get put in place, it should be deactivated in Invite/Friends Only lobbies.  The reason for that is; I don't mind carrying my uncle when he has to go on a call mid Defense.  I don't mind carrying my brother when he has to go cover someones shift mid Spy.  I don't mind carrying my cousins when they have to go mid MD for whatever reason.  

 

[FoxsongHD]

Any automatic system will more than likely do more bad than good, varying skill levels, matchmaking that is nonexistant in rules, and real world issues are too unpredictable to take count of. Just a report option for leeches would do best since DE could monitor reports, how many are coming in daily and such.

[Sintag]

21 minutes ago, MrBlas619 said:

Then again, if i have some ubercleaning squad mate, i'm marked as leecher? I can move, yes, i can spend energy but if there aren't enemies near and i'm, an Excalibur for example, which doesn't have any ability useful without enemies, why should i spend it to not be marked as leecher, and risk myself to not have energy when i need it? And the final thing, what should i shoot? I don't think it would be fair.

...Which, sadly, brings me back to a point.

 

The only real way we can fight leeches is through implementing a votekick of sorts.  Or a squad can vote on "Player X is being a leech".  Or the Report category can include "Not contributing to gameplay in a meaningful way".

 

There is no automatic system that will work, and burning the leeches will take player input.

[Bibliothekar]

54 minutes ago, FoxsongHD said:

If someone has a role and is doing it but isn't getting as many kills if any as the other players they aren't a leech.

But how is the game, an algorithm that can only look at the numbers, supposed to see that?

26 minutes ago, Sintag said:

Connecting shots - Land enough shots on targets in X time.

Except any AoE weapon (launchers, Simulor, ...) has the problem that shots do damage but don't count as hit. Certain weapons will always have 0% accuracy according to the game.

29 minutes ago, Sintag said:

Energy used - To encourage casting abilities, use X Energy in X (+ Y) time, Y being the amount of time you were unable to cast (Knocked over, in a Nullifier field) so as not to make it unfair.

Low Energy Sortie and Energy Drain nightmare mode say hi. Also, that number is heavily dependant on mission and frame. When I run Lith Captures to crack open relics, I barely use my abilities because it's easier just to mow everything down. And some frames still have to stop to use any of their abilities (Banshee, for example), making their use even more pointless in low-level content.

[Eyrfith]

5 minutes ago, Sintag said:

...Which, sadly, brings me back to a point.

 

The only real way we can fight leeches is through implementing a votekick of sorts.  Or a squad can vote on "Player X is being a leech".  Or the Report category can include "Not contributing to gameplay in a meaningful way".

 

There is no automatic system that will work, and burning the leeches will take player input.

Yeah, i think a kick option is a good way to at least reduce the leeching, but it will require some way to avoid the "troll" kick in, like someone said before "after 19 defense waves"

[FoxsongHD]

1 minute ago, Bibliothekar said:

But how is the game, an algorithm that can only look at the numbers, supposed to see that

Really hate saying something more than twice, I'm more or less suggesting an option in the report tab for leeching that is enforced. No automatic system will work for something like this, too many variables.

[Bibliothekar]

1 minute ago, FoxsongHD said:

I'm more or less suggesting an option in the report tab for leeching that is enforced.

But why add a new option when we already have one as @Noamuth said? And one that's objectively better than a simple "Report for ..." in-game, since you can attach actual proof that they're leeching (possibly even with them admitting to it)? If DE wanted to make the in-game option as good as a support ticket (and they have to do that if they want to ban players for breaking the rules), they'd have to record every single mission you play, just in case you want to report someone for leeching. And boy I'd be pi$$ed when they'd gobble up my disk space with that.