Titania's Tribute Needs a Bit of a Rework

[EchoesOfRain]

For the most part, I think most of everyone will agree that Titania's Tribute really kinda sucks. For the time and energy it takes to build up stacks for each part of Tribute, she doesn't really get rewarded all that much. Not only that, but accidentally running into a Nullifier bubble will put all that effort to waste, forcing Titania to start building Tribute again from square one.  She has a low energy pool, she shouldn't be wasting it by spamming Tribute.

Tribute: Either 1. Let Tribute effects be affected by power strength and duration, or

2. Increase their effect cap, let Tribute gather souls from enemies near the target, and allow Spellbind to gather all souls within it's range

Basically, either allow her to cast once for the full effect, but have to build for strong effects, or increase the cap of the effects but make much it easier for her to build them up

 

Thorns: This ability needs to change a bit. The damage Thorns can deal back is utterly pathetic. And getting hit by, well, ANYTHING let alone melee enemies is really bad for Titania, as she's quite frail. And getting hit by maxed Thorns will almost never kill anything. Thorns now creates an aura around Titania. All damage taken by allies within the aura will deal a % of that damage to all enemies within the aura. 

Entangle: Honestly, I can barely even notice a 25% slow on an enemy, and that's the best Titania can get...Equinox with Peaceful Provocation can get up to 80% slow with just a bit more work, if she has enough power strength. Maybe cap Entangle at 50-75%

Dust: Similarly to Entangle, Dust could be better. 50% evasion isn't bad, but she still will get hit very often. Zephyr's Turbulence Allows her to become basically immune to ranged attacks. I don't see why Titania couldn't get to 100% evasion with a lot of effort. It wouldn't make her invincible.

Full Moon: I can't comment much on this, aside from the fact that it really sucks that Titania can't use companions while in Razorwing...

 

With changes like these, Titania could become quite a strong Debuff support frame and Tribute would feel like a much better skill to use.

Disclaimer: I'm really bad at numbers, so some numbers here may be a bit too strong...

[zeroichi92]

She needs augments too.

[kusaku]

I actually feel that tribute is her best skill.

If any skill needs fixing it is Razorwing. Razorwing is meant to be a platform for her skills but it eats to much energy and disables the companion. The loss of companion means that she doesn’t even gain much of a damage boost and she loses all that utility that companions bring i.e. guardian, vacuum etc.

I would change Titania like this so that she can be more of a support caster:

1) Companions should still work while in Razorwing mode (make drones invisible but still work so they don’t ruin the aesthetic).

2) Make it so energy regen like energy siphon/ zenurik work in razorwing mode, this should help her make use of her other skills

[Fallen_Echo]

I think they should really scale with strenght, but i think the ability what needs the moat urgent change is the lantern what floats away, killing its own prupose.

[KX297]

Titania really needs some work in general. If they are going to work on tribute, I'd honestly like to see them work on her whole kit and warframe stats.

[(PSN)Croewe]

I never have a problem with energy in razorwing (I may or may not use arcane energize though) but my problem with tribute is having to go and collect all the little "shadows" after you use it. This makes her kinda tedious and negates the point of flying when you're at ground level.

[kusaku]

Energy In razorwing is fine so long as you dont use her other skills which is a shame as it feels like razorwing is meant to be a platform for using her skills.

 

Lantern should be set so it just lifts the target 1m off the ground instead of floating off into space.....

[(PSN)Gamer3427]

On 3/21/2017 at 1:53 AM, EchoesOfRain said:

Dust: Similarly to Entangle, Dust could be better. 50% evasion isn't bad, but she still will get hit very often. Zephyr's Turbulence Allows her to become basically immune to ranged attacks. I don't see why Titania couldn't get to 100% evasion with a lot of effort. It wouldn't make her invincible.

To be fair in regards to this, it's so that you can't make the entire team invincible. The buffs affect your entire party, not just yourself, and a 50% damage reduction from all enemies in range that aren't melee, affects quite a bit. To top it off, with a 50% evasion from Dust, you do have 100% evasion personally while you're in Razorwing, because Titania has a permanent 50% evasion bonus while you're using her fourth. Other than that though, I will agree that her other buffs and debuffs need strengthening, since while they're useful, a lot of players might not find them useful enough to spend the energy and effort to maintain. Thorns in particular is useless due to how poorly enemy damage dealt scales compared to enemy defense pools, compared to allied defenses. It takes barely a scratch for high level enemies to kill a Warframe, but even their strongest hits will only do scratch damage back to them with a full powered Thorns active. Likewise Full Moon has a poor duration, and doesn't buff companions by that much, when companions already don't do much damage, and as you noted, Titania's companion disappears entirely while in Razorwing.....

Other than that though, the main two things that need to be worked on, are that Lantern does need to hold in place above the original position rather than floating off into space, and I'd say that Razorwing needs to at least have a permanent vacuum effect, to compensate for the loss of sentinels, which could be represented visually as a Razorfly picking up loot. Honestly, having to pick up the buffs for Tribute isn't a big issue, so long as the other buffs are more useful. I main Titania, and I tend to play her primarily as a support frame, focusing on the buffs/debuffs, preventing/clearing statuses with Spellbind, and using Spellbind and Lantern to disable crowds of enemies while I or other party members pick them off with weapons or other abilities. As is, she does work pretty great as a support frame in all levels of content, as well as a high DPS if you've modded your primary and melee weapons properly for them to buff Razorwing. I certainly wouldn't say she needs a full rework, as all of her abilities are good as is, and she's comfortably sitting as a mid-tier warframe in all stats, which works well over all. She just needs a little tweaking to the functionality of a couple of the aspects of her skills to make them slightly more useful.....

[(XBOX)eibonMadness]

I think while in razorwing titanias other abilities should cost less and maybe even have some increased strength/duration. With such a small energy pool it would also be nice if she had a way to gain back energy. 

[(PSN)Gamer3427]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)eibonMadness said:

I think while in razorwing titanias other abilities should cost less and maybe even have some increased strength/duration. With such a small energy pool it would also be nice if she had a way to gain back energy. 

Maybe something along the lines of Tribute restoring a fixed amount of energy when in Razorwing, when you collect an enemy's soul. This energy could be set to the base energy cost for Tribute, so that builds that prioritize efficiency would be regaining energy to use it and collect enemy souls even when in Razorwing, while builds that have increased energy cost would just be mitigating that cost a bit, and builds with no adjustments to efficiency would just be negating Tribute's cost, promoting using it more to keep stacks alive even when in Razorwing mode. It also wouldn't equal infinite energy with an efficiency build, necessarily, because you would both have to collect the souls, and you can't gain a soul from the same enemy twice. Not as broken as Trinity's Energy Vampire for maintaining energy, but it would still effectively keep you from having to drop out of Razorwing to restore energy from time to time, which can effectively be a death sentence if you can't get to cover on higher levels since Titania doesn't have quite the survivability of most frames you'll see in endgame unless she's in Razorwing......

[(XBOX)eibonMadness]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)Gamer3427 said:

Maybe something along the lines of Tribute restoring a fixed amount of energy when in Razorwing, when you collect an enemy's soul. This energy could be set to the base energy cost for Tribute, so that builds that prioritize efficiency would be regaining energy to use it and collect enemy souls even when in Razorwing, while builds that have increased energy cost would just be mitigating that cost a bit, and builds with no adjustments to efficiency would just be negating Tribute's cost, promoting using it more to keep stacks alive even when in Razorwing mode. It also wouldn't equal infinite energy with an efficiency build, necessarily, because you would both have to collect the souls, and you can't gain a soul from the same enemy twice. Not as broken as Trinity's Energy Vampire for maintaining energy, but it would still effectively keep you from having to drop out of Razorwing to restore energy from time to time, which can effectively be a death sentence if you can't get to cover on higher levels since Titania doesn't have quite the survivability of most frames you'll see in endgame unless she's in Razorwing......

I like your thought. It would help her energy needs and gives more reason to use Tribute. 

[Coldie93]

I just thought up a somewhat good rework on Titania.

First of all, I still think that her energy pool is too low.  I would have liked it if she has at least 250 base energy pool (maxed).

Having the companion utilities available to titania while in razorwing is badly needed.

My suggested rework is having Titania's 1 2 3 abilities to be build around Razorwing.  You will get various bonuses when you cast them when in Razorwing. Here's a few I thought up:

Spellbind - Titania will deal additional damage to enemies caught in spellbind when she is in razorwing. Maybe 50% damage would do.

Tribute (rework) - this is probably the least popular skill in Titania's kit. The way you activate the buff is a hassle and making you do it a many times to be effective is painful so here's what I suggest:

Make Tribute a duration based skill. Activating the skill will buff Titania for a time. While under this buff,  enemies killed by Titania will have a 20% chance to leave their soul for you to pick up.  Soul buffs effect could remain as is.  I would also remove the class specific buff and just make it that you recieve a random buff for any soul you pick.  This is to avoid complication and just let you fly wild. With this easy usage, I would also suggest that the refreshing of the duration remove when you already got the full stack on the specific buff.

Razorwing buff for Tribute is that it will increase the soul spawn chance to 40%, doubling it.

Lantern - not much to say for this skill. It's good enough tbh.  Maybe the Razorwing buff for it is that the lantern will slowly drift towards you. Not sure if that is useful.

Razorwing - now with Titania's signature skill.  One thing I would change is to buff Diwata's damage.  It is greatly overshadowed by Dex Pixia's ridiculously high damage.  Maybe make the Diwata's base damage to 300.  Let's be honest, it's seriously fun to dart around the place, slicing enemies apart.  But not too fun if you can't kill the said enemies.

 

 

[(PSN)Gamer3427]

17 minutes ago, Coldie93 said:

 

Her energy pool isn't actually too bad. I run her without flow, and I don't tend to have energy problems unless I'm either not picking up orbs while in Razorwing, or I'm spamming her other skills a bit too much. The main problem with energy does come from not being able to pick up orbs as easily in Razorwing though, since you are rarely within range of them when flying around....

Spellbind - Spellbind actually works pretty good as is, since it can disable an entire crowd of enemies and make them floating targets, so I wouldn't say it needs any changes or buffs.

Tribute - As for your Tribute suggestion, please, please no. Making it pure RNG as to which buffs you get, or whether you get any at all, is not what the skill needs in the slightest. The reason a lot of people don't use tribute that much right now is because the buffs/debuffs aside from Dust aren't really that useful to bother maintaining. In particular, Thorns doesn't scale well at all, and because of the low damage of companions, full moon isn't worth bothering with unless you just have spare energy. The changes that need to be made to tribute are that Vines needs to be buffed, and these two buffs need to be replaced with something that is useful from early levels up to high levels. Thorns could be changed to a melee boost for Titania and allies, while Full Moon could be changed to something such as slow energy restoration that remains effective in Razorwing or increased power range.

Lantern - Lantern is probably the skill that is least useful right now, simply because it can't effectively work as intended in most tilesets due to floating off out of range too easily. It just needs to be made stationary and it'll be fine.

Razorwing - I can agree with a slight buff to Diwata. She also needs either a passive vacuum effect while in Razorwing or for companions to remain active but invisible.

[Coldie93]

36 minutes ago, (PS4)Gamer3427 said:

Her energy pool isn't actually too bad. I run her without flow, and I don't tend to have energy problems unless I'm either not picking up orbs while in Razorwing, or I'm spamming her other skills a bit too much. The main problem with energy does come from not being able to pick up orbs as easily in Razorwing though, since you are rarely within range of them when flying around....

Spellbind - Spellbind actually works pretty good as is, since it can disable an entire crowd of enemies and make them floating targets, so I wouldn't say it needs any changes or buffs.

Tribute - As for your Tribute suggestion, please, please no. Making it pure RNG as to which buffs you get, or whether you get any at all, is not what the skill needs in the slightest. The reason a lot of people don't use tribute that much right now is because the buffs/debuffs aside from Dust aren't really that useful to bother maintaining. In particular, Thorns doesn't scale well at all, and because of the low damage of companions, full moon isn't worth bothering with unless you just have spare energy. The changes that need to be made to tribute are that Vines needs to be buffed, and these two buffs need to be replaced with something that is useful from early levels up to high levels. Thorns could be changed to a melee boost for Titania and allies, while Full Moon could be changed to something such as slow energy restoration that remains effective in Razorwing or increased power range.

Lantern - Lantern is probably the skill that is least useful right now, simply because it can't effectively work as intended in most tilesets due to floating off out of range too easily. It just needs to be made stationary and it'll be fine.

Razorwing - I can agree with a slight buff to Diwata. She also needs either a passive vacuum effect while in Razorwing or for companions to remain active but invisible.

I think you misunderstood the Tribute mechanics I suggested and also a fault on my part for not explaning it in more detail. 

With the tribute buff on,  you get a 20% (40% if in razorwing) to spawn a soul whenever you kill an enemy.  Picking up a soul will give you an instance of a random buff out of the 4 available. The next soul you pick up will only choose between the instances left.  i.e. if you get a stack of Dust on your first soul. The next soul you pick up will choose between 4 stacks of Dust, 5 stacks of Thorns, 5 stacks of Entangle and 5 stacks of Full Moon.

This means that you only need to pick up 20 souls to get all four buffs at their max effect.  With the 40% spawn chance of the soul and a crap ton of enemies,  I don't think you'll have a hard time collecting those. If 20 souls is too much, I guess decrease the max stacks per buff to 3 and increase the effect of each stack accordingly, making it 12 souls to get the max effectiveness

I just reviewed the Tribute buffs. It's been awhile since I played Titania. And honestly I rarely used Tribute.

I agree that Thorns and Full Moon would need a rework and Entangle's slow debuff should also be increased

EDIT: her passive also needs rework.

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by Coldie93

[ScribbleClash]

@EchoesOfRain

Generally I feel like Tribute just lacks a chunk of QOL, which could be adjusted by having either:
1. Buffs running out of duration remove a single stack (or mayhaps 50% of stacks instead of zeroing), or
2. Let any buff refresh ALL buff durations.

Thorns:
Do not fit with her in my opinion. As a fae, I would rather have a deflective ability, tossing back a part of the damage to the attackers.

Entangle:
Could be slowing enemies the longer they are in the debuff zone, OR could stack with your squad!

Dust:
Is in a great place IMO. The idea is to stack Dust with your Razorwing to begin with.

Full Moon:
Should also buff Razorwings butterflies.

Generally I feel that Titania has a way to weak Energypool, especially considering her other stats aren't anything to brag about. She could also use some spellcastingspeed. Add some spellhaste for consecutive casts to her passive or something.

[Methanoid]

her only tru useful ability is razorwing, DE should at the very least slap in a quick fix to make her razorwing form not make her stick to everything like shes made of velcro, her other 3 abilitys are all garbage, i personally could easily wait for a revamp of those 3 if they just fix razorwing sticking to everything and enable your sentinel precepts while in razorwing so we can actually vacuum pickups.

[(PSN)Gamer3427]

10 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

her only tru useful ability is razorwing, DE should at the very least slap in a quick fix to make her razorwing form not make her stick to everything like shes made of velcro, her other 3 abilitys are all garbage, i personally could easily wait for a revamp of those 3 if they just fix razorwing sticking to everything and enable your sentinel precepts while in razorwing so we can actually vacuum pickups.

All three of her other abilities are very useful depending on how you use them. Tribute and Lantern just need some adjustments so that every aspect of Tribute is useful rather than just one skill, and Lantern doesn't float away so easily. Dust from Tribute effectively reduces the damage from every non-melee or AoE enemy by 50% at max level, which also benefits allies, and which stacks with Razorwing's passive evasion to effectively keep Titana from ever taking ranged damage. Lantern is a good skill for blocking off choke points, and does fairly good damage, with the only real issue being that it floats away far to easily. Spellbind is good as it is, since if you hit a crowd of enemies with it, you effectively remove their ability to fight back, and make them easy targets. Meanwhile if you use it on yourself and allies, you cure status effects and grant immunity for Spellbind's duration, which can effectively neuter some of the most dangerous enemies in the game for a short time. Just because her abilities don't have raw damage, doesn't mean they aren't powerful. She's a good mix between a support frame with her 1-3, and an offensive frame with her 4.....

[(PSN)Gamer3427]

4 hours ago, Coldie93 said:

I think you misunderstood the Tribute mechanics I suggested and also a fault on my part for not explaning it in more detail. 

With the tribute buff on,  you get a 20% (40% if in razorwing) to spawn a soul whenever you kill an enemy.  Picking up a soul will give you an instance of a random buff out of the 4 available. The next soul you pick up will only choose between the instances left.  i.e. if you get a stack of Dust on your first soul. The next soul you pick up will choose between 4 stacks of Dust, 5 stacks of Thorns, 5 stacks of Entangle and 5 stacks of Full Moon.

This means that you only need to pick up 20 souls to get all four buffs at their max effect.  With the 40% spawn chance of the soul and a crap ton of enemies,  I don't think you'll have a hard time collecting those. If 20 souls is too much, I guess decrease the max stacks per buff to 3 and increase the effect of each stack accordingly, making it 12 souls to get the max effectiveness

I just reviewed the Tribute buffs. It's been awhile since I played Titania. And honestly I rarely used Tribute.

I agree that Thorns and Full Moon would need a rework and Entangle's slow debuff should also be increased

EDIT: her passive also needs rework.

 

I do get a better picture of what you're suggesting now, but I'm still against the idea of changing the system from a guaranteed "you hit this enemy with it, you get this buff" to a system that is reliant on RNG. Particularly when even in Razorwing it's only a 40% chance of generating a buff when you kill an enemy, (even if it's got a duration, that's still a 60% chance that each enemy killed will yield nothing), compared to a 100% chance you'll get a buff per enemy hit, (not even killed), with it as is. Making a skill's usefulness reliant on RNG is a dangerous game, because that can vary from "I got all my buffs in a row" to "I killed 100 enemies and got nothing", which makes it reliant purely on luck whether or not you'll get use from what is effectively her most useful sill aside from Razorwing, (doubly so if they buff the effects beyond Dust). Particularly if you're not always in Razorwing mode. Statistically speaking, yes you should be fine, but at the same time not being able to get buffs when you need them can really bite you in higher level content. It does also pose the problem of not being able to quickly stack the particular buff you need, which will change based on the faction and situation. Even with a rework or buff to her other three effects from Tribute, the 50% accuracy reduction will still be the main bonus you want to get up against anything other than infested, and the suggestion you've made could result in it being the last one you get fully stacked. Combine that being the last one you get stacked with the RNG of even getting the buffs, and add that into an endgame mission, and it could spell trouble very quickly......

As for the passive needing a rework, I completely agree. As it stands, her passive is only useful when you're not in Razorwing mode, and still isn't very useful even then. Bullet jump is good, I'll agree, but a slight distance increase doesn't really come in handy very often, particularly when the biggest unique feature of the frame is a mode that grants unlimited flight. Going to quote myself on my suggestion for a thematically fitting passive that would be useful, without ever being so useful as to be a main draw of her....

15 hours ago, (PS4)Gamer3427 said:

"Fairy Healing" - Kills generate a small Razorfly with healing properties. This Razorfly seeks out the player with the lowest health in a 25 meter range and heals them for 15 points of health. If no player is within range, or all players are at full health, the Razorfly will remain in position for 20 seconds before disappearing.

[Coldie93]

I understand what you are getting at.  I only suggested that system because if ever they change the other tribute buff into something more awesome and useful, you be having abit of trouble getting them due to the scarcity of the enemy type (i mean most of the enemy spawn are gunners meaning you'll most likely always get Dust). Nothing wrong with it right now since Dust is the most useful buff.

Titania has 2 CC skills.  I feel that you'll be able to survive long enough until you fully stacked Dust.

With how tribute works right now. It's abit counter productive with Titania's design.  She is reliant on her razorwing for survivability meaning under any circumstances, she should always be in razorwing mode.  With her low energy pool, lack of Vacuum and not affected by energy vampire or Zenurik. She really has trouble keeping it up. Casting Tribute all time even at max efficiency really hurts her energy pool.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Coldie93

[(PSN)Gamer3427]

1 hour ago, Coldie93 said:

I understand what you are getting at.  I only suggested that system because if ever they change the other tribute buff into something more awesome and useful, you be having abit of trouble getting them due to the scarcity of the enemy type (i mean most of the enemy spawn are gunners meaning you'll most likely always get Dust). Nothing wrong with it right now since Dust is the most useful buff.

Titania has 2 CC skills.  I feel that you'll be able to survive long enough until you fully stacked Dust.

With how tribute works right now. It's abit counter productive with Titania's design.  She is reliant on her razorwing for survivability meaning under any circumstances, she should always be in razorwing mode.  With her low energy pool, lack of Vacuum and not affected by energy vampire or Zenurik. She really has trouble keeping it up. Casting Tribute all time even at max efficiency really hurts her energy pool.

True enough, though I do run a max efficiency build on my Titania, and I don't generally have energy issues when using Razorwing, Tribute, and my other abilities, aside from maybe every now and then having to drop out of it for a second to drop an energy restore. That's not even a big deal so long as you don't let it completely run out before you do so, so you can find a find a safe place. As for the problem of enemies being scare for the other buffs, I've never really had that issue aside from with Full Moon, and that one is only if I'm fighting Grineer. Even if they are harder to find though, that could be considered the compensation for those other buffs being reworked to be more powerful than the current version. I do definitely think that when they do make adjustments to Tribute's buffs, they should include either an augment to tribute itself that either causes it to restore energy or have an area effect, or at the very least make it so that when in Razorwing, collecting a soul restores some energy as I described earlier in this thread. I just don't really think that over all, a RNG factor is the way to go if Tribute gets adjusted, because that's just asking for more frustration in the long run, particularly in higher level content.....