Let Me Get This Straight...Tonkor "Nerf"

[HolyDemon00]

On 3/25/2017 at 0:08 PM, FireSegment said:

let me get this straight, change the click-bait topic title first ....

the tonkor original design was to test with so called rocket-jump mechanic from other game, the concept got outdated, the arc of the gun although tricky to use, have no risk involved, prove to be too effective and deserve to be nerfed.

we had fun using a broken gun for ... like 2 year, it's outdated and hurt other weapon long enough, now it's time for it to go.

Why are other weapon "hurt" by it?

If the weapons can't kill enemies effectively, then Tonkor being OP or not wouldn't affect them at all. Heck, Tonkor being OP would help them more because it would lower other weapon's disposition.

Seriously, DE should stop listening to stupid "suggestion" from people like these.

[Artekkor]

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)Harper Lord said:

It always amuses me how people complain about weapons in a Co-op game where the goal is to be as powerful as possible and work together to complete the objective. Didn't realize we were competing with each other for kills, assists, etc.

We do not compete, BUT other people want to play too since killing is the core gameplay of the game.

The problem was that tonkors and simulors were playing and having fun. Others didn't.

When i say that mission turns into a walking simulator when meta people join - i'm not even joking.

I would not even sprint and just stroll forward in a chill manner enjoying the level design. Because what else is there to do when everything is dead already?

Simulors and tonkors are already at extraction, waiting and i'm like somewhere half of the way staring at a wall, hugging my vaykor hek that didn't made a single shot, thinking "that's nice blood splatter on the wall there, perfectly complements the texture"

That's what it was like to play with meta people.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Artek94

[HolyDemon00]

1 hour ago, NinthAria said:

There's not a lot of "working together" involved when somebody in your squad had one of those weapons. In fact, it wasn't really "working" at all--more just standing around doing nothing because everything dies before you can draw a bead on it.

I mean, yeah, it was probably good fun for the person doing it. But most of us, I'd wager, join public games to actually play the game, not to watch one or two people play for us. And that's not even beginning to touch the fact that those weapons had a grossly disproportionate relationship between their power and the skill/risk required to use them.

Do you people even play any mode other than freaking exterminate? Because that's like the only mode where you can get away with not doing anything.

Try being afk in Excavation or Survival or Interception or Defense or fissure or kuva, and see how people *@##$ at you for leeching. And no, Tonkor or simulor isn't enough to carry those modes by themselves, and even when someone is good enough to carry those games by themselves, there's still plenty of objective to worry and enemies to kill.

Seriously, play the freaking  game before *@##$ing about people "kill stealing" in your lv30 exterminate.

Edited March 27, 2017 by HolyDemon00

[HolyDemon00]

7 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

We do not compete, BUT other people want to play too since killing is the core gameplay of the game.

The problem was that tonkors and simulors were playing and having fun. Others didn't.

When i say that mission turns into a walking simulator when meta people join - i'm not even joking.

I would not even sprint and just stroll forward in a chill manner enjoying the level design. Because what else is there to do when everything is dead already?

Simulors and tonkors are already at extraction, waiting and i'm like somewhere half of the way staring at a wall, hugging my vaykor hek that didn't made a single shot, thinking "that's nice blood splatter on the wall there, perfectly complements the texture"

That's what it was like to play with meta people.

Again, do you people even play anything other than exterminate? Throw a Simulor mirage into excavation or interception and see how she struggled to keep up.

[Artekkor]

Just now, HolyDemon00 said:

Again, do you people even play anything other than exterminate? Throw a Simulor mirage into excavation or interception and see how she struggled to keep up.

Its all a matter of the map. As long as the map was tight, with a lot of corridors - meta people were shining the brightest.

Too bad half of the game consist exactly out of those maps. Especially corpus. Even europa excavation has those.

I would just stick to the excavator and kill rare, lonely enemies that would make it past the meta or spawn from the oposite side.

If the other 2 people wouldn't already.

[HolyDemon00]

19 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

Its all a matter of the map. As long as the map was tight, with a lot of corridors - meta people were shining the brightest.

Too bad half of the game consist exactly out of those maps. Especially corpus. Even europa excavation has those.

I would just stick to the excavator and kill rare, lonely enemies that would make it past the meta or spawn from the oposite side.

If the other 2 people wouldn't already.

Enemies spawn from all direction in those maps, what are you doing when the simulor guy was camping one corridor?

Europa Excavation is a buggy map, The low spawn is not so much the Mirage's fault but the enemies getting stuck. Try hieracon pluto excavation and quickly see how Mirage Simulor is one of the crappiest combo there.

PS: Mirage simulor isn't even the freaking meta. Equinox Atterax is the actual DPS meta.

 

[Artekkor]

Just now, HolyDemon00 said:

Enemies spawn from all direction in those maps, what are you doing when the simulor guy was camping one corridor?

Europa Excavation is a buggy map, The low spawn is not so much the Mirage's fault but the enemies getting stuck. Try hieracon pluto excavation and quickly see how Mirage Simulor is one of the crappiest combo there.

PS: Mirage simulor isn't even the freaking meta. Equinox Atterax is the actual DPS meta.

 

I will camp another coridor obviosly.

But i think you're thinking in the wrong way here. Not to nerf something because SOMETIMES it doesn't work is not the right way of thinking.

Even if the issue appears sometimes, its still an issue right? You do not refuse fix a bug because only 20% of people are affected by it. You fix it anyway because it DOES affects them and spoils their experience and can affect anyone else under right conditions.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)Harper Lord said:

It always amuses me how people complain about weapons in a Co-op game where the goal is to be as powerful as possible and work together to complete the objective. Didn't realize we were competing with each other for kills, assists, etc.

There's a world of difference between "competing" and "feeling like an extra in your own mission." Weapons like the Tonkor and Simulor caused the latter.

[KeishinB237]

well i got some salt to add to this already salty ocean here

THE TONKOR GIVES COMPLETE DAMAGE BACK TO YOU NOW! i honestly don't know why the F*** this happened but i got a message from clem saying he messed with my Tonkor and now it kills me instantly, and becuase i managed to essentially turned it into a nuke i can't use it in the same room unless i want to litteraly kill myself 

[Edgarhighman]

On 3/27/2017 at 3:41 AM, Rambit23Z said:

Warframe didn't exist in 2010.

close enough though. I was in CBT... who knows.

[Kusungphak]

Joined a game after the update. Had to revive a guy using Tonkor 3 times within the first 4 waves. He switched to secondary after that.

[WolfTitan]

Both the Tonkor and Simulor have been nerfed to the point that they have become unsuitable for high level enemies. If DE wanted to ensure that all weapons killed at the same rate as Lato, then it has succeeded.

The thrilling nature of obliterating level 50+ mobs have come and gone. It's a step in the wrong direction. Rather than trying to make useless weapons more useful by buffing them, DE decided to nerf great weapons into oblivion. It's a shame that players, who don't have the skills to kill or don't want to kill quickly, have convinced DE to force all other players to kill as slowly as they. For many players, annihilating entire hordes of high level enemies is fun; sniping 1 at a time in a 200+ enemy extermination mission is not.

Let the salt continue to flow as DE deserves a period of dehydration for this nerf. Here, enjoy my bucket of salt.

[JalakBali]

 

Just now, WolfTitan said:

Both the Tonkor and Simulor have been nerfed to the point that they have become unsuitable for high level enemies.

I might have missed the memo, but did the Tonkor's DPS been nerfed? Or is it just its idiot-proof mechanism?

[WolfTitan]

2 minutes ago, JalakBali said:

 

I might have missed the memo, but did the Tonkor's DPS been nerfed? Or is it just its idiot-proof mechanism?

Since the critical chance was decreased, the Tonkor's DPS was decreased as well.

[Kei-Inc.]

On 25/03/2017 at 0:58 PM, Ryunokage said:

1. Nova's m-prime is a debuff, that slows enemies and allows them to take more damage, it doesn't trivialise content, nor does it dominate in its current form. Keep in mind that it is already nerfed from its original state, in which m-prime could cause a cascade of explosions that would wipe entire maps, DE implemented the nerf on the Nova for much the same reasons as those stated in this round's weapon balances.

2. Banshee/saryn: Agreed, both of them need to be reviewed with as much haste as possible. The ember as well has the same issues. All those frames need to either be reworked to force active participation and skill-dependant gameplay, or otherwise have their current idiot-pandering properties nerfed into the ground.

3. Mesa: Like the nova, the mesa has been nerfed. She currently needs to manually direct her field of fire. A field that rapidly narrows the longer the ability remains active. Contrast this against her earlier iteration, which turned her into an auto-targeting stationary turret.

I'm incline to agree, and I even PLAY sound quake Banshee (I know, I know, God smite me down). But it makes XP farm so. much. easier. But it is also boring as all hell. But I don't think they should nerf it into the ground and make it useless, but perhaps more interactive, as you said. 

[JalakBali]

23 minutes ago, WolfTitan said:

Since the critical chance was decreased, the Tonkor's DPS was decreased as well.

So which launcher weapon out DPS it now?

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

On 3/27/2017 at 4:24 PM, Artek94 said:

We do not compete, BUT other people want to play too since killing is the core gameplay of the game.

The problem was that tonkors and simulors were playing and having fun. Others didn't.

When i say that mission turns into a walking simulator when meta people join - i'm not even joking.

I would not even sprint and just stroll forward in a chill manner enjoying the level design. Because what else is there to do when everything is dead already?

Simulors and tonkors are already at extraction, waiting and i'm like somewhere half of the way staring at a wall, hugging my vaykor hek that didn't made a single shot, thinking "that's nice blood splatter on the wall there, perfectly complements the texture"

That's what it was like to play with meta people.

or i can run a volt speed melee and kill mobs before the simulor balls merge treating it as a time attack challenge. there are ways to keep up with the mirage simulor but no most people just cried in the forums claiming these weapons are too op hence the nerf.

[WolfTitan]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

or i can run a volt speed melee and kill mobs before the simulor balls merge treating it as a time attack challenge. there are ways to keep up with the mirage simulor but no most people just cried in the forums claiming these weapons are too op hence the nerf.

You, sir, are exactly right. There will always be a new "meta" after each nerf. Draco affinity farm was removed, but now we have Bere. Don'f forget that the Tonkor was nerfed once before. Mirage's #4 and Excalibur's #2 were heavily nerfed, but players have found other ways to cheese. Therefore, DE is making players unhappy while solving absolutely nothing. To truly solve these problems, go to the core of the problem: mods.

If players want  to snipe enemies one at a time in an extermination mission, they can do so in their own squad. When they go public, be respectful of how others play their game. Stop trying to force players to conform to your slow killing style by crying on the forums and demanding nerfs.

Warframe is already slower-paced as it is due to various DE actions in the last 2 years. The game does not need to become even slower.

[skinotik]

Tonkor nerf is pretty easy to understand.  Tonkor was design for grenade-jump = no self-dmg.  Bullet jump was added to game.  Grenade jump is now obselete = self-dmg on Tonkor like ALL other launcher.

The only aera that can be discuss is the nerf to the launch mechanic (launch on release) and the crit nerf.  Imo, they shouldn't have lower the crit chance.  I could not care less about OP crit damage on Tonkor.

[(PSN)buddysball7]

I have a idea lets nerf everything in the game so bad that we cant kill a level 30 enemy and then we can all quit and go play other games.

That said warframe has always been a place where people can play they want to play but as it stands DE always nerfs everything that people come to like don't get me wrong tonker and simulor is overpowered but in the case of people that play to level 300+ even those weapons can't hang i totally get where everyone is coming from but for real DE as a 4 year veteran of the game i can tell you how many people you have lost over the years and it gets worse as nerfs come and go.

There is a simple solution to this don't allow people to bring in these guns unless its level 45-50 it would get the rest of the community to quit crying about what is overpowered and what isnt because when those people who cry now get to the level where some people are at they will kick themselves for ever talking about it in the first place.

last thing lets nerf these weapons because they are beloved by so many in warframe and DE and let the fun crying begin and those people will see why some get upset about the guns they like getting the nerf hammer.

Soma,Boltor,Braton.Tigris,

And why do you think people use these meta weapons is because there the only ones that actually puts damage on 250+ enemies without having to empty a 200 round Soma clip i'm sure some people will talk smack about what i have said they always do its cool at the end of the day i play long missions because its fun i don't play 20 min runs like 90 percent of Warframe so have a nice day.

[(PSN)Flatulent_Draco]

Back to using the Secura Penta with a riven, at least that doesn't force you to charge a shot, just fire and press B to blow at your leasure.

Though I will say DE needs to cut it out with the nerfs, PvE is already gradually getting slower and slower with each new "rework" and "nerf". People will just keep migrating to what can get the job done fast, and if DE keeps nerfing that stuff then their player base will keep dwindling. It's also gotten bad to where people, who don't like PvP, are even considering PvP to feel any sort of power or challenge. But as it is with people whining about stuff that needn't we whined about will get nerfed... though bullet jumping might be a legitimate issue.

I try to get away from Nerfstiny(Destiny) to have fun, guess with all things "Everything that has a beginning has an end".

Edited April 1, 2017 by (PS4)Benjamin_Draco

[(XBOX)Harper Lord]

On 3/27/2017 at 3:31 AM, XanaSkullpulper said:

There's a world of difference between "competing" and "feeling like an extra in your own mission." Weapons like the Tonkor and Simulor caused the latter.

If you don't want to deal with other people ruining your fun, play on solo or friends only??? The content truly isn't that hard that you need a team for everything is it??? Poof problem solved no more " the simulor/tonkor is ruining my fun!" The irony is I don't use either of these and play with people that do regularly, doesn't bother me a bit. 

[skinotik]

4 hours ago, (Xbox One)Harper Lord said:

If you don't want to deal with other people ruining your fun, play on solo or friends only??? The content truly isn't that hard that you need a team for everything is it??? Poof problem solved no more " the simulor/tonkor is ruining my fun!" The irony is I don't use either of these and play with people that do regularly, doesn't bother me a bit. 

The argument play "solo" or "friend only" is lame.  It's like saying to a victims that if he don't want to get rob, he should stay at home forever and never get out of his house ...  

DE want people to play together.  Not all alone in their corner.  This isn't a singleplayer game.  That's why they bother "trying" to balance weapon to create an healthy multiplayer experience.  

Simulor/Telos Boltace were overtune as hell, they deserve to be look at.  Were they nerf too hard ? Maybe ... but they sincerely deserve to be tune down.  As for the Tonkor, people shouldn't be suprise by the addition of self-damage (because of the fact that grenade jump became obselete with the introduction of bullet jump).  But again, Tonkor nerf too hard with the crit reduction ? Maybe... but again self-damage make sense.

[-N7-Leonhart]

On 3/25/2017 at 1:44 AM, BaronVonHuggz said:

-snip-

Penta has no criticals to speak of. Tonkor clearly has more damage to compensate for it's 2 shots.

[D0NE1]

2 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Penta has no criticals to speak of. Tonkor clearly has more damage to compensate for it's 2 shots.

your math is kinda wrong on that one they do the same dmg just tonkor has more crit chance but if you consider the mag size of the penta it is a better choice and does more dmg + you can use tether grenades on it