[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Frenjo]

1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

I'd spend less time on the boards and more time playing new Limbo. The guy is a different kind of animal. Take the time to really learn the new synergies within his kit. Take him into long survival runs, solo. Really enjoy the power you now have to have absolute control over the battlefield. He is 100% the tactician frame now, and he will be good in the hands of an average players and top tier in the hands of a great player. I love the changes DE has made, and his 4-3-4 combo is broken good and needs another look. This is coming from an endurance player. My idea of endgame is level 3000+ enemies.

Your idea of endgame is extreme compared to anything i've ever even dreamed of so it literally means nothing to me as a player with my playstyle, and I think I reflect quite a lot of people when I say multiplane banish for a single target is necessary. Cataclysm already covers the aoe banish so you don't even need two skills doing the same thing, where one has more use than the other.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Frenjo

[(PSN)psycofang]

1 minute ago, Ta10S said:

Why can PS4 user talk about new Limbo as if he played this? I suppose that PS4 is still U19.

Because my wife has the pc version of warframe and wont get the ps4 version so i play on hers whenever a new build comes out.

[Frenjo]

Just now, (PS4)psycofang said:

Because my wife has the pc version of warframe and wont get the ps4 version so i play on hers whenever a new build comes out.

May your marriage continue and be long and happy! :D

EDIT to remain on topic: I still think we just need to focus on one problem at a time before we start screaming at eachother.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Frenjo

[Ta10S]

Just now, (PS4)psycofang said:

Because my wife has the pc version of warframe and wont get the ps4 version so i play on hers whenever a new build comes out.

I understood. thanks.

[Shadu]

On 25-3-2017 at 9:31 AM, Quanlain said:

If previously, while beign in rift, you could just safely bring one enemy (and it could be more after rework). Now you actually need to unbanish yourself, thus opening yourself to the fire, banish an enemy, and then banish yourself. Problem is: it made Limbo's speed even lower when compared to pre-rework. Thing is: Limbo gets benefits from staying in rift, but banish (1-st skill) rework now activly forces Limbo to play out of the rift.

 

I agree with that part, I really do think they need to make banish work on both planes again from the rift. However that will be messy with the AOE targetting, but something like prioritize putting those that aren't in the rift yet over putting those that are in the rift into the normal plane should be able to fix it? So if you target enemies that are both in the rift and aren't, everything will stay in the rift and those that weren't yet will get moved to the rift. If all were already in the rift, all get moved to the normal plane.

 

Apart from this though am I the only one who thinks the rework still hasn't fixed his problems much?

He is in a better place now for sure, being able to carry stuff while in the rift and being able to pick up stuff in cataclysm are great changes.

But I still feel forced to always have a max range cataclysm so I don't annoy people with not being able to shoot out of the bubble. The cataclysm still shrinks, which makes it annoying (you can have a 30 second cataclysm but realistically you'll only have it running for 20 seconds because then it's already shrunk to the point of being too small, it also makes the increased duration per kill augment useless).

Stasis is annoying for your squad mates because they have absolutely no control over it. The only way for them to kill stuff when it's on is by meleeing the enemies.. which is likely even a "bug".

Rift Surge seems to be doing absolutely no damage? So it's only worthwhile to get more enemies into the rift at the moment and for the augment (that delicious damage increase).

Cataclysm turning off your rift walking is also annoying I feel.. but can be adjusted to in playstyle.

I find it weird though that banish can't work on both planes at the same time, where as the abilities from other frames can work on both planes yet the master of the rift can't?

Oh and please nerf the damage from cataclysm. Now when doing corpus/infested missions it feels useless to shoot stuff where cataclysm just instantly destroys whole rooms full of enemies.

[(PSN)psycofang]

4 minutes ago, Frenjo said:

I still think we just need to focus on one problem at a time before we start screaming at eachother.

 

Im on the fence about his 1 on one side we have 2 skills that do roughly the same thing. Kindof.

Banished allies cant interact with anything

Cataclym lets you interact with things

 

They are both aoes which may be a negative

But new banish causes mass knockdown which leads to extraordinary damage 

New cataclysm scales with combined enemy hp (which i kinda dont want reduced because i know theyll nerf it to the floor than be reasonable) and it stuns.

 

Putting it back to single target also removes his wave knock down time stop bonus damage set up but gives better precision.

 

Keeping it the way it is does the opposite to a degree since the precision is still there just a wider margin.

 

Fence sitting.

[NeonNemesis]

My opinion here, I used Limbo quite a few times, I did think his abilities needed some changes, for example casting cataclysm was only useful during Kela's missile rain, or in a defense with a mesa, other than that casting it by yourself was almost suicide (ok maybe not that much but it left you open as hell to enemies pretty lackluster for a final ability).

I don't mind the roll changing you into the rift but like people said some use roll for movement, also using it will move you, chances of you activating it but dashing into a hole and respawning without it only to get killed are just a bit higher. Also what's up with that tear left behind, didn't DE learned with the Volt coils, but this one is even worse as enemies are left inside the rift as well, yesterday I was like "Why am I being attacked? I didn't banished anyone."

Banish now needs to be in the same plane as the enemy, like it was said if you did it while constantly banished you would be invincible, however did you played the old Limbo? Any decent Limbo player would just bullet jump out re-rift himself and return to the fray. Heck even a duration on the S#&$ would be fine, instead this ability just became a mess.

Stasis is probably the only good thing that limbo got there's a reason to bring cataclysm into play rather than the above situations, however the mess of shifting in and out of rift of both you and the enemies totally messes the potential of this ability.

Rift surge, uh... after reading the discription and trying it I still have no clue of what exactly that does, it seems one of those functions in a device you buy that you need to read a bible to understand what it does so it's better to leave alone before you screw it up, but I think this might be me, so I went to youtube to see a rework description strangely that video described all skills minus this one....

If I as a veteran WF player and user of Limbo have issues understanding what the heck is going on i can only imagine new limbo users, they'll either devote to study him like some mystery of life or they will simply go to any other frame easier to use and with better results.

My opinion: Old Limbo was also know as the troll frame due to his banish, the thing is that he trolled willingly, this one trolls willingly and unwillingly to the point where he trolls himself.

What should be done IMO: Bring back the old Limbo, replace his 3 with stasis, done, you have a Limbo that can isolate specific targets (Banish) or bring everyone into into the rift (cataclysm), gain advantage over them (stasis) and can shift himself whenever he wants without messing up his movement or his positioning (old 2 forgot name) without throwing ramdom allies/enemies into the rift without knowing he did.

[Frenjo]

1 minute ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

-snip-

Yep, I get all of that. I feel we just need to start off by reverting banish to what it was, single target precision, then you have cataclysm covered too. Reverting banish immediately removes three problems:

1. People complain about banishing allies/enemies when they intend vice versa.

2. Multiplane banish comes back for single target so it's not as op as area banish.

3. It reduces the clunkiness of having to drop in and out of rift constantly, you can pull and push targets out while truly being a "rift master".

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

 

Im still trying to understand how its 17 buttons unless hes counting compounded button presses. Left + roll (2) 4(1) 3(1) 4(1) thats 5 buttons total.

 

 

Then repeat 4 3 4 (3 buttons).

 

The other rotation was

 

Left + roll (2) 2(1) 4(1) 1(1) 3(1) kill/4(1) 6 to 7 button presses.

 

Where is 17 coming from?

On a controller layout on the Xbox, default config requires you to scroll left or right to select the desired power. So just firing off your 1 and then your 4 is the following button presses:

Activate Power 1

D-pad right, 3 times (or sometimes 4, because the first one just wakes up the UI)

Activate Power 4

Five button presses just for that. A combo that was posted earlier ended up needing 17 presses to switch from power to power and activate them in the suggested order. 

This can be altered with controller configuration, but it always requires the sacrifice of some other control (I mean, on Xbox, you don't even have alt-fire by default) and I have not found a better configuration despite trying several. There's no point in changing my controller layout for one frame, so...

Edited March 26, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[(PSN)psycofang]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

On Xbox

Jesus christ what?

Its waaaaaaaay simpler on Pc/ps4.

Doesnt Xbox have an l1 l2 r1 r2? Ps4 you can swipe on the pad or hold R1 then hit triangle-circle-triangle which is only 4 buttons.

[ChameleonBro]

3 hours ago, Trichouette said:

Meanwhile I'm part of the players who like this new banish change. I can bring everybody into the rift without bringing back other enemies into material plan

 

I just hope they nerf his ultimate because right now it's pretty much "press 4 to destroy ZA WARUDO"

His banish is a lot weaker than what it used to be because you have to walk up to an enemy crew and banish someone and than go into the rift yourself. This is pretty much suicide in high level missions hence why it is almost unusable for me. The AoE effect is great but the fact that you and the enemy have to be in the same plane for you to pull off Banish just doesn't make sense.

As for his 4 I wouldn't nerf it, since Limbo can die easily anyways and there are so many things you have to look out for. If you want to nerf Cataclysm because it is an actually useful ability now than all of the frames that have great abilities deserve nerfs because of the sheer fact that they are good. There are many cheesier abilities than this, that don't lock you in one place aka where your Cataclysm is.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Jesus christ what?

Its waaaaaaaay simpler on Pc/ps4.

Doesnt Xbox have an l1 l2 r1 r2? Ps4 you can swipe on the pad or hold R1 then hit triangle-circle-triangle which is only 4 buttons.

Xbox doesn't have a touchpad, and while it does have the bumper buttons, those are used for other things in my configuration. As said, it can be worked around but with only one frame needing that kind of speed (Limbo) it's not worth changing a working layout just for Limbo. 

Specifically, I don't use the pop up power menu on R1; R1 is alt-fire. If I could get rid of focus/transference I'd happily do so, but that's a nonstarter with the config menu.

Edited March 26, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[ChameleonBro]

2 hours ago, bubbabenali said:

I hope he is just completly bugged and not supposed to "work" like this, his first 3 abilities only work randomly for me - even just activating them is a random factor...

At least his passive let's me stand around in my Zenistar field forever on Akkad now

His first ability has been changed to banish only enemies that are on the same plane as you and most people are upset about that. Fans are letting DE know they don't like that change and hopefully they will bring back the old Banish mechanic but keep the AoE. As for his 2 it rarely bugged out for me but not in a game breaking way. But his 3 is completely bugged and only works for banishing further targets, it doesn't do any sort of damage which it is supposed to do.

[(PSN)psycofang]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

I don't use the pop up power menu on R1; R1 is reload/c

Oh that explains it. Why not use B for reload?

 

L1-roll for crouch?

[Ditto132]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

On a controller layout on the Xbox, default config requires you to scroll left or right to select the desired power. So just firing off your 1 and then your 4 is the following button presses:

Activate Power 1

D-pad right, 3 times

Activate Power 4

Five button presses just for that. A combo that was posted earlier ended up needing 17 presses to switch from power to power and activate them in the suggested order. 

This can be altered with controller configuration, but it always requires the sacrifice of some other control (I mean, on Xbox, you don't even have alt-fire by default) and I have not found a better configuration despite trying several. 

Personally, I would do the following (how I does it):

1. Activate Power button (Power 1)
2. Switch Power (D-pad left, 2 times. Power 1 -> 5 -> 4)
3. Activate Power button (Power 4)

The problem I have with using controller (Xbox One) is that I have to move my left thumb away from the analog stick to the D-pad, instead of the number of button presses.
Same with how I have to move my right thumb from right analog stick (aiming) to one of the face button to press the alt-fire, making tracking target and shooting using alt-fire very cumbersome. This is where alt-fire as toggle like that of Zarr would be better. Although it doesn't work well with my Quanta Vandal...

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 hour ago, AerinSol said:

Rift Surge needs to be cast on an enemy and while there is at least one in the rift. But still only works half the time. Currently Rift Surge is bugged to hell. I get 1 kill and the ability cancels. Or 3-5 with enemies still in the rift and it cancels. Then of course the casting works half the time.

Ahh ok then, cheers

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Oh that explains it. Why not use B for reload?

 

L1-roll for crouch?

Honestly, it's not what I'm used to, and retraining hundreds of hours of muscle memory for Limbo isn't worth it. 

I put the common maneuvers under my right thumb: roll/crouch, quick melee, and jump are B, X, and A respectively. Y is switch weapons as usual. Reload/context is on R2, altfire R1. 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

8 minutes ago, Ditto132 said:

Personally, I would do the following (how I does it):

1. Activate Power button (Power 1)
2. Switch Power (D-pad left, 2 times. Power 1 -> 5 -> 4)
3. Activate Power button (Power 4)

The problem I have with using controller (Xbox One) is that I have to move my left thumb away from the analog stick to the D-pad, instead of the number of button presses.
Same with how I have to move my right thumb from right analog stick (aiming) to one of the face button to press the alt-fire, making tracking target and shooting using alt-fire very cumbersome. This is where alt-fire as toggle like that of Zarr would be better. Although it doesn't work well with my Quanta Vandal...

You make a good point: you can scroll the other way. I usually don't because there is nothing as rage-inducing as accidentally triggering transference. I suspect one of these days I will twist my controller in half because of that. 

Incidentally, I use an Elite Controller and have the d-pad left and right mapped to a pair of paddles, lowering the thumbs-off-sticks time. It's better than the d-pad, marginally. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[(PSN)psycofang]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

Honestly, it's not what I'm used to, and retraining hundreds of hours of muscle memory for Limbo isn't worth it. 

Thats fine, though they program things with default in mind i assume.

 

I use a universal set up with alt fire being L3 since i much prefer it that way it lets me aim and switch without interference.

 

But alrighty that's enough of that.

 

 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

Yup, good point. 

[Frenjo]

What does everybody think? Can we agree to solve the most glaring problem first and just say to DE, "Hey look, we think this might need changing." with a unified voice? :P Will make their jobs a lot easier.

[ILChirurgoDellaVita]

This is not a *change* to Limbo.
This is a massive freaking nerf. 
He's barely playable now. 

[(PSN)psycofang]

Problem is i cannot as you have good points but the changed wave banish allows for monsterous amounts of damage once Cataclysm gets nerfed.

 

Each side gives enough benefits to me for me to be unable to say "this is what needs to be changed". Id prefer they work out the glitches all over the place before changing anything and it might be awhile anyway.

 

Octavia is kinda funked up too along with the 4 billion damage weapons issues.

 

[Frenjo]

Yeah... I just think that the most glaring problem is banish is effectively useless from the average player's perspective, because it does the same thing cataclysm does with a limitation, so it's barely gonna be used. I just think them reverting that should be a start so we can start working on the new stuff that needs fixing rather than having to deal with broken old stuff as well.

[Trichouette]

48 minutes ago, ChameleonBro said:

His banish is a lot weaker than what it used to be because you have to walk up to an enemy crew and banish someone and than go into the rift yourself. This is pretty much suicide in high level missions hence why it is almost unusable for me. The AoE effect is great but the fact that you and the enemy have to be in the same plane for you to pull off Banish just doesn't make sense.

Unless that it has a huge cast range and AOE range and when enemies are banished they get knocked down.

And once again, press 2 and it's easy peasy, all enemies banished are frozen.

48 minutes ago, ChameleonBro said:

As for his 4 I wouldn't nerf it, since Limbo can die easily anyways and there are so many things you have to look out for. If you want to nerf Cataclysm because it is an actually useful ability now than all of the frames that have great abilities deserve nerfs because of the sheer fact that they are good. There are many cheesier abilities than this, that don't lock you in one place aka where your Cataclysm is.

When I say "nerf" I mean "nerf the insane damage"

The ability was great and didn't need change, they just added a gigantic burst damage on the collapse that depend on enemies inside it, which is pretty much "press 4 to destroy the map"

45 minutes ago, ChameleonBro said:

hopefully they will bring back the old Banish mechanic but keep the AoE

Oh yes, this way we can banish enemies and unbanish others at the same time

Edited March 26, 2017 by Trichouette