[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

2 hours ago, DadidJones said:

I love it, now people let me limbo and i'm now not a portable defibrillator

But you can still be a portable defibrillator if you wanted to.

[AlaskanWolf]

33 minutes ago, Shadu said:

Currently it is: never ever use banish, always just use cataclysm and you have the same exact point.

The thing you're proposing doesn't work at all, because what you described a few pages ago is just a complicated way for going about not using cataclysm while it is the way way way better spell for the situation you were describing. Currently the Banish spell is nearly useless and it is better to use Cataclysm in nearly every case. With my proposed change you still risk dying if you screw up and Banish will actually have a use.

@Clonmac. With his 7-step post perfectly described how Limbo's Battlefield tactics not only can be more than just spam 2 and 4 FTW,  but also have to adapt to corpus/corrupted with nullies. With just a touch of a nullifier cataclysm will be shut down, and with any range at all... Cataclysm can touch nullifiers you can't even see. So having more reliable and smaller AoE rift control that can't be insta-popped from 2 rooms over is vital, especially solo. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by AlaskanWolf

[Diezen]

I really do miss old Limbo, rework completely killed how I played him. Yes he is more powerful, but stasus instantly breaks when I'm using my favorite weapon, the Kohm. Not to mention the banish is completely useless now, can no longer focus on single targets like Techs and Hyekka Masters that would be issues to the team. 

Not to mention being a healer Limbo is completely gone, since the augment doesn't even work anymore. Even if it did, it would require you to banish your teammate, roll, unbanish, roll, repeat. It would be too clunky to even be worth running. Cataclysmic Continuum doesn't even work anymore as well.

You can no longer banish security cameras while being in the rift, and some areas where you have to dash to get out, there's not even any room to do so. Not to mention, as previous people in the thread said, Cataclysm removes your riftwalk. So if there's another Limbo in your team spamming max range Cataclysm, they can dispell your riftwalk. While you're running through a magnetize bubble, while running through spy lasers, while being fired upon by 2-3 corpus techs or a hyekka master... it's just horrible.

The buffs weren't worth the nerfs to me, he needs a lot more work done to be less broken and annoying to use now.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

What happens when you use Banish on enemies while inside Cataclysm? Do they just get damaged and knocked down or does something else happen? They should just stay in the rift because of Cataclysm so can you just stun lock them that way?

[Shadu]

13 minutes ago, AlaskanWolf said:

@Clonmac. With his 7-step post perfectly described how Limbo's Battlefield tactics not only can be more than just spam 2 and 4 FTW,  but also have to adapt to corpus/corrupted with nullies. With just a touch of a nullifier cataclysm will be shut down, and with any range at all... Cataclysm can touch nullifiers you can't even see. So having more reliable and smaller AoE rift control that can't be insta-popped from 2 rooms over is vital, especially solo. 

You can have a build for a small Cataclysm so it doesn't get instantly popped by nullifiers 2 rooms away, you shouldn't even be using overextended if you're using Rift Torrent since it scales with strength. I've read his whole post where he described how he used it and it just shouted "I don't want to use cataclysm so I'll use some weird impractical way to do it" to me.. I've tried both ways: the banish+rift surge way while not abusing casting through walls to do so and compared it to cataclysm usage with a small range build. The small range cataclysm just worked way way better.. I also find it weird that nullifiers don't remove banish from it's allies if the bubble moves over them while it does throw us out of the rift.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Shadu

[AlaskanWolf]

9 minutes ago, Shadu said:

You can have a build for a small Cataclysm so it doesn't get instantly popped by nullifiers 2 rooms away. I've read his whole post where he described how he used it and it just shouted "I don't want to use cataclysm so I'll use some weird impractical way to do it" to me.. I've tried both ways: the banish+rift surge way while not abusing casting through walls to do so and compared it to cataclysm usage with a small range build. The small range cataclysm just worked way way better.. I also find it weird that nullifiers don't remove banish from it's allies if the bubble moves over them while it does throw us out of the rift.

That's true, and in my awe of the new power he has with his 2 ,3 &  4 combo,  kinda got stuck on ranged builds. 

 

I wasn't  trying to start something, just trying to point out that Limbo can still be played several different ways. Some are clunky, and complicated and require a different thought process. While still others are efficient and can be less fun to play.  

Edited March 28, 2017 by AlaskanWolf

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

14 hours ago, AlaskanWolf said:

THIS....

 

this much better says what I said in a less eloquent and more angry way. It doesn't make sense for a nullie to be able to pull him from ANOTHER PLANE OF EXISTENCE. and removes some strategic elements of his playstyle, since now its best dealt with the way all other frames do it... soma, akstiletto, grakata...etc

Yes man, I had to express this anger for how I feel about Limbo being pulled out of the Rift by nullifiers. They "fixed" something that was such a legit mechanic. You can't harm them but they can't harm you. In late game you can use this to get away safely and prepare a plan to get rid of the nullifiers without getting one shotted. But nahhh let's take it away from him.....DE please show your Limbo mains some love PLEASE.........the "bug" actually made me happy when it was there.

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

12 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

What happens when you use Banish on enemies while inside Cataclysm? Do they just get damaged and knocked down or does something else happen? They should just stay in the rift because of Cataclysm so can you just stun lock them that way?

It seems like you just banish them for extra damage and maybe a knockdown. I have to test it again because I was in the Simulacrum testing weapon combinations for Limbo against Corrupted Heavy Gunners. It seems like it doesn't do much but it's probably because I had Stasis activated. 

[AlaskanWolf]

3 minutes ago, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

Yes man, I had to express this anger for how I feel about Limbo being pulled out of the Rift by nullifiers. They "fixed" something that was such a legit mechanic. You can't harm them but they can't harm you. In late game you can use this to get away safely and prepare a plan to get rid of the nullifiers without getting one shotted. But nahhh let's take it away from him.....DE please show your Limbo mains some love PLEASE.........the "bug" actually made me happy when it was there.

Unless DE wants to give us some lore to explain why the nullifiers can and do effect a mutation on one frame (nidus)  and a frame in another plane;

 

I feel it's stupid for them to be affected by something that logically [ and yes,  even by video game logic in a world ruled by phase shifting teens piloting metal assassin's]  shouldn't work and actually aids in choosing that frame for those small perks

[malekas]

3 hours ago, Clonmac said:

You want to be able to kill things without ever being able to die. You've made that abundantly clear.  

Limbo is already like that in his current state. Between Stasis and Cataclysm if I ever die then I made a very big mistake

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

12 hours ago, AlaskanWolf said:

Unless DE wants to give us some lore to explain why the nullifiers can and do effect a mutation on one frame (nidus)  and a frame in another plane;

 

I feel it's stupid for them to be affected by something that logically [ and yes,  even by video game logic in a world ruled by phase shifting teens piloting metal assassin's]  shouldn't work and actually aids in choosing that frame for those small perks

Right! And now that the gimmick is gone, a lot of people will say, "Why pick Limbo if I can pick Nidus with a Primed Reach Orthos or why not Valkyr with Primed Reach Melee where I don't take damage and pop the bubble instead? It's not like Limbo can do it!" So it's like why take away the one advantage that Limbo had against nullifiers to make him unique....

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

15 hours ago, Clonmac said:

But passives don't cost energy and without an energy cost, there is no downside to using it without consequence regardless of whether there is an expiration on it or not. Combine that with the fact that you're advocating for being able to use Banish bi-directionally, then what you're essentially advocating for is...

a warframe that is nearly impossible to kill!

...seems like I've said that before...

No sir. Frenjo is correct. In late game against Grineer and Infested we can be godly but that's a lot of frames. Once we hit Corpus or Void in late game, we have nothing. The moment we use Stasis and throw up a Cataclysm it gets dispelled. Keep in mind that when Cataclysm ends or when we walk out of it, we LEAVE THE RIFT PLANE, and we have to dash in the one second window we leave the Rift Plane from Cataclysm to reenter the Rift. In late game you will most likely have enemies in and outside of the Nullifier bubble, surrounding any Tenno that exits. Within that one second window in late game guess what that is? INSTANT DEATH. Because they will somehow leak a single shot on you the literal millisecond you dash back in the Rift after leaving Cataclysm. This renders Limbo useless against any mobs with Nullifiers in it. And because we can't multiplane banish, we HAVE TO RELY on 2 AND 4, in order to survive. Catch the drift? Or better yet....catch the rift?

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

6 hours ago, VentiGlondi said:

Octavia's damage scales with enemy level.

Something people have been asking for since... I don't know, quite a while ago

Limbo too, now. Could they bring scaling damage to everyone? It is too much to hope. 

[Buzkyl]

People being upset over Limbo being pulled out of the rift by nullifiers shows the reason why they should exist. Nullifiers existed because DE needed a band-aid enemy to combat the sheer volume of mass CC and DPS skills which trivialize enemies. The current Limbo is able to stop enemies dead in their tracks the moment they enter the rift, set up kill shots and watch the bodies fall.

Him having a moment a moment of vulnerability is hat keeps him from being more broken, as evident when you fight vs grineer and Infested, factions he can handle with much greater ease.

Nullifiers are pretty BS of enemies but thier role is to stop frames like Limbo from having too much power over enemies. If any change has to happen, it should be dealt with the nullifier as an enemy, not Limbo's interaction with it.

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

13 hours ago, Shadu said:

You can have a build for a small Cataclysm so it doesn't get instantly popped by nullifiers 2 rooms away, you shouldn't even be using overextended if you're using Rift Torrent since it scales with strength. I've read his whole post where he described how he used it and it just shouted "I don't want to use cataclysm so I'll use some weird impractical way to do it" to me.. I've tried both ways: the banish+rift surge way while not abusing casting through walls to do so and compared it to cataclysm usage with a small range build. The small range cataclysm just worked way way better.. I also find it weird that nullifiers don't remove banish from it's allies if the bubble moves over them while it does throw us out of the rift.

While this is true, Rift Torrent scales on the amount of people in the Rift. Without multiplane banish, a small Cataclysm won't hold enough people. Less people = less damage. Now the only way you can kinda work around this is by using Rift Surge so that when the Cataclysm gets too small, they reenter the Void and possibly take others with them if they are close enough. Now you have to still kill them off as quick as possible because the Nullifier might try to move in and leave you vulnerable. So while a small Cataclysm is smart, just be careful.

[Cyberzombie]

I love the rework.. and especially that i can enter the rift with the "roll"

 

But the Banish... is complicated..because you have to get out of the rift to get enemies inside the rift..to fight them there..

 

i know that you need some control on who u banish with that new cone effect.....thats why it only works on your plane..

But  i think it should be the other way round.:)

 

if it would effect only targets that are NOT in your plane ...you could suck enemies into the rift while you are there ....and youd be able to fight them there directly

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

12 hours ago, Buzkyl said:

People being upset over Limbo being pulled out of the rift by nullifiers shows the reason why they should exist. Nullifiers existed because DE needed a band-aid enemy to combat the sheer volume of mass CC and DPS skills which trivialize enemies. The current Limbo is able to stop enemies dead in their tracks the moment they enter the rift, set up kill shots and watch the bodies fall.

Him having a moment a moment of vulnerability is hat keeps him from being more broken, as evident when you fight vs grineer and Infested, factions he can handle with much greater ease.

Nullifiers are pretty BS of enemies but thier role is to stop frames like Limbo from having too much power over enemies. If any change has to happen, it should be dealt with the nullifier as an enemy, not Limbo's interaction with it.

You have a point about Nullifiers being a band-aid to fight against our CC and DPS powers, although I wish NO FRAMES...including Limbo didn't lose their buffs while running into a bubble. That would solve everything. Chroma gets completely obliterated by this. So does Limbo apparently.......although logically being affected by anything that is in a different plane of existence is impossible regardless of what technology the enemy has. 

[-WF-Monarch]

Has anyone noticed recently that Nullifiers once again remove Limbo from the Rift when you Rift Walk?

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

12 hours ago, -WF-Monarch said:

Has anyone noticed recently that Nullifiers once again remove Limbo from the Rift when you Rift Walk?

Yes. It's painful and illogical in my opinion. 

[-WF-Monarch]

5 minutes ago, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

Yes. It's painful and illogical in my opinion. 

Same. His Rift Walk is a passive now, so nullifiers shouldn't affect it. I get them affecting abilities, but not a passive. I did Sortie 3 earlier. Nullies everywhere. Pretty hard to pick people up with that many Nullies around and you no longer having the ability to stay in Rift Walk.

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

14 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Honestly, Limbo is much more powerful than he was, but can still do what he did previously (with a little more nuance). So all in all this limbo rework gets my thumb's up. You accomplished what you set out to do, and you also introduced a very cool way to "stop time" without having it negatively impact other players. Very cleverly implemented imo.

True. DE went ham with Limbo's rework but I just wish the "glitch" wasn't a glitch at all and that he remained unaffected by Nullifier bubbles. 

[(PSN)psycofang]

1 minute ago, -WF-Monarch said:

Same. His Rift Walk is a passive now, so nullifiers shouldn't affect it.

 

This was disproven by Nidus existing.

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

12 hours ago, -WF-Monarch said:

Same. His Rift Walk is a passive now, so nullifiers shouldn't affect it. I get them affecting abilities, but not a passive. I did Sortie 3 earlier. Nullies everywhere. Pretty hard to pick people up with that many Nullies around and you no longer having the ability to stay in Rift Walk.

SEE! RIGHT HERE! I'm so glad you said this. Limbo is not a tank and in high level missions Limbo will struggle against Corpus and Corrupted enemies because of this one change. His Rift Dash is a passive....why make it able to be affected by nullification...

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

12 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

 

This was disproven by Nidus existing.

Not 100%. Nidus loses stacks over time. He doesn't have his stacks instantly removed.

[-WF-Monarch]

1 minute ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

 

This was disproven by Nidus existing.

Nidus' passive uses stacks, a function of an ability. Now, we've all seen that Nullifiers can REMOVE stacks because it's FOR his abilities. Limbo's Rift Walk is NOT actually tied to any of his abilities and therefore should not be affected.