Trading market is going downhill fast

[Fallen_Echo]

10 hours ago, Jaysus41 said:

What the hell... why would you complain about low prices? Any decent trader with a handful of brain cells would see this as a good opportunity for investment. I can break it down in a few steps...

1. Realize whining about the ups and downs of capitalism isn't going to change anything.

2. Buy some Plat if you need some. if not, skip to step 3

3. Buy up all the cheap Prime sets you can find. looking at the history of how sets are vaulted, Ash P, Vectis P, and ESPECIALLY Carrier P will be hot buys for cheap.

4. Wait until sets are vaulted, from the looks of things we can expect Ash and his stuff to be vaulted in about 45 days. if it is already vaulted skip to step 5

5. Sell for whatever over-inflated, borderline extortionate prices you want to sell for.

Honestly, step 4 is the hardest part. also don't forget about Arcanes, the right ones can sell for a pretty penny as well (Energize, Aegis, Avenger, Etc...)

These people fear that their monopolic investment of sacraficing actual gameplay to camp in the chaos we call tradechat will die as more people realize true prices.

They are not true traders, they dont want to wait for their investment to get valuable they want that cash now and whats better for that than finding some newbie on the tradechat and sell him overpriced rubbish and next time they are wondering why there are soo many people using the warframe market.

[Heckzu]

37 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

They are not true traders, they dont want to wait for their investment to get valuable they want that cash now

Investors wait for their investments to accumulate value before cashing it in.

Traders / merchants obtain their goods and then immediately sell them for higher. When you buy something from a supermarket, they bought all of their foods for lower prices than they're selling it to you. Are you saying that they're not true traders because they're not letting their food rot before selling it to you?

[Fallen_Echo]

54 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

Investors wait for their investments to accumulate value before cashing it in.

Traders / merchants obtain their goods and then immediately sell them for higher. When you buy something from a supermarket, they bought all of their foods for lower prices than they're selling it to you. Are you saying that they're not true traders because they're not letting their food rot before selling it to you?

I have actually seen people buying up prime items just to sell them for 5p more after a little wait. Dont tell me that sound like someone who has anykind of trading experience a real trader would wait for that item to be vaulted and cash on it. For example the ones who got the most cash out of an argon scope mod where the guys who waited for the event to end where the price started to skyrocket.

[Heckzu]

14 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

a real trader would wait for that item to be vaulted and cash on it.

That's false.

Many "traders" (mostly stock traders) will try to maximize the ratio of profit to time. This is because profits that are quickly made can then be reinvested to make even more profits. Why wait a week to make 100 plat from one trade when you can make 100 plat from 20 trades within 3 days?

[Samuel_sfx]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Ariies said:

Not necessarily. Lets say for S#&$s and giggles that there are only 1000 players playing warframe. Each of those player bought 1000p. So now there is 1 mil in plat floating in warframe space if no one else buys plat. You can trade and sell that plat without having to buy more. DE doesn't win in that scenario. So traded plat isn't money for DE. They only made it off the initial purchase. You know how rich they would be if they made money off of traded plat? I'd like 5% of that profit. But wildcats' comment that "DE will hate it" is obviously not true since they allow and encourage trading.

man...u think where those plat going to mostly?

 

THE FASHION FRAME

 

So?

DE literally takes that 1 million back from the market

[Samuel_sfx]

2 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

That's false.

Many "traders" (mostly stock traders) will try to maximize the ratio of profit to time. This is because profits that are quickly made can then be reinvested to make even more profits. Why wait a week to make 100 plat from one trade when you can make 100 plat from 20 trades within 3 days?

Yea, most item like newly release prime access can make a fast moderate amount of plat. I dont bother waiting to sell my euphonia or even nekros prime until vaulted

[skinotik]

Wow ... Just wow ... Basic supply and demand.  Trade isn't the center of the game.  On my side, I'm happy that price are this low.  I vastly prefer primed gear to be more accessible throught farming than to get frustrated to farm like a madman and not be able to get my part before it get vaulted just because some ppl want to ripped off ppl.  I'm so happy that the focus of trading switch to Riven.

I prefer to give my money directly to DE than to give it to some random ppl jerking on some bullS#&$ exclusive trade non-sense.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, Heckzu said:

That's false.

Many "traders" (mostly stock traders) will try to maximize the ratio of profit to time. This is because profits that are quickly made can then be reinvested to make even more profits. Why wait a week to make 100 plat from one trade when you can make 100 plat from 20 trades within 3 days?

I really hope you are kidding here because thats the most terrible trading method i have ever seen.

Heres why:

A) 100 plat in 1 trade after 1 week.

B) 100 plat in 20 trade in 3 days.

If we assume you talk about the same item in both sceniarios that means A trade made you 100 plat/trade while B trade made 5 plat/trade.

 

Lets say you use up a whole week to collect the said item.

For trade A you collect 1 item every day and you will have 7 at the end of the week. You used up lets say 5 minutes to get it. Thats total 35 minutes of your life.

For trade B you need to collect 20 items every day and end up with 140 piece at the end of the week. Using the upper speedrun you spent 700 minutes of your life.

 

Now we count the incomes:

Trade A managed to get you 700 plat at the end of the week.

Trade B managed to get you 250 plat at the end of the week.

 

So in conclusion if you waited with the sales you would have earned more and even if we account in the price increase as the end of the week comes, if you spent the time of trade B to farm these items you still get much more than with selling stuff instantly.

You may temporarly got more cash than those who used trade A but in the end they will become rich.

[(PSN)Ariies]

4 hours ago, Samuel_sfx said:

man...u think where those plat going to mostly?

 

THE FASHION FRAME

 

So?

DE literally takes that 1 million back from the market

I agree it goes to fashion frame, but DE gets only a portion of that 1 mil. Whether its a large portion or smaller portion is up to those to buy for fashion frame purposes. If I never buy plat, I could still make 1000 or more plat in game. The only time I really "lose" that plat, is when I purchase non tradable items like boosters, fashion frame items, and the like. But DE will never get paid off of me if I do not directly purchase plat; fashion items or not. 

[.Re-light.]

Two things about the theme of the topic that is a bit wacked. (Theme being how dropping prices of easy to get things is somehow forswadowing the game downfall)

  Let me explain:

1) Everyone keeps on saying how prices form on the free market, supply and demand and so on. Except this market is as far from free as it gets.This market has a director. DE

Everything that happens on it happens because DE wants it to happen. It's not easy to balance a free to play model, the inner game economy and making your investors happy.

       I am sure that DE know every statistic when it comes to the cash flow. Ash P is worth, 30-40-50 plat? Well, vault him and in a year he'll be worth 10 times that to new players that don't have him. Same with any other prime item. What, prime mods not worth it? Just get Baro to not bring them again in next six months and see how it turns around. They made maxing mods much easier with endo, but now we got a riven system where chances of getting true top tier riven are like 0.0001%, The fact that it's a system relying on making easily accessible things that more desired is a genius in it self. 

   Point line being, if something is cheap, it's because DE wants it be cheap so they can continue to advertise the game as free to play, and it is that. Artificial scarcity is more about having a healthy market with various price ranges then it is about them making money directly from it. If you ever bought plat directly from DE, or spent other ppls plat on something from the market, it's all good, cause guess what, that plat made real money to DE just the same at the moment someone purchased it.

 I truly don't see how you could avoid one or the other.

 

2) The fact that you are trying to present your point as something tangible over 5 pages of people trying to convince you otherwise makes me question your agenda. 

If you are trying to get rich plat wise, now is bad time for prime parts.. If you are incredible patient and truly just want to amass 10 of thousands of platinum, you are gonna have to be speculative, invest plat, and be inhumanly patient. But forget about playing Warframe, your game will become Tradeframe. And if you are worried that DE is going under, or that dropping prices are showing that the game is dying, relax. If, or better say when (nothing is forever] the game is over, it won't be because players could buy Ash P cheap, it will be something much bigger and not inner economy fluctuations, that's just silly.
 

 

[Vohim]

LF Free ignis wraith :v

[Volinus7]

Trading is just a buffer to give hope to freebies and slowly convert them into paid players. 

Plats only circulate for a short period through few people, eventually they will go into plat sink spots where they cannot return to circulate in the market anymore. (slots/potatoes/cosmetics etc.)

Everyone needs slots and potatoes, if paid players cannot pump in enough money to support the purchase rate of slots and potatoes for the entire population (paid+free players), everyone won't trade plats out but stockpile them to prepare for new frames/weapons instead leads to price drop across the market. 

If you don't want the price of prime parts to be governed by the number of paid players, the drop rate must be lowered to an extremely low zone like 0.01-1% (old school mmo with around 8k concurrent players ran around this zone, this game has 30k so expect it to be lower).

[Heckzu]

3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Lets say you use up a whole week to collect the said item

I'm talking about the reselling of items, not farming to sell items.

Suppose you only have 25 plat. You buy one item for 25 plat. Then you resell it immediately for 30 for 5p profit. Then you keep doing this quickly. When you accumulate 50 plat, you can buy 2 at once and resell them both for 60 plat, for 10p profit. Your profit increases at an exponential rate, whereas if you just spent that 25 plat on one item and sat on it to accumulate value, your profit is linear: the difference between how much you got it for and how much you sold it for.

If you can trade often enough that the end profit of quick resale and reinvesting surpasses that of simply investing and waiting, then it's a more profitable to do the former.

[Death_Master_]

Really? Look at Arcane Energize price, it still goes up and up and up.

[Fallen_Echo]

11 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

I'm talking about the reselling of items, not farming to sell items.

Suppose you only have 25 plat. You buy one item for 25 plat. Then you resell it immediately for 30 for 5p profit. Then you keep doing this quickly. When you accumulate 50 plat, you can buy 2 at once and resell them both for 60 plat, for 10p profit. Your profit increases at an exponential rate, whereas if you just spent that 25 plat on one item and sat on it to accumulate value, your profit is linear: the difference between how much you got it for and how much you sold it for.

If you can trade often enough that the end profit of quick resale and reinvesting surpasses that of simply investing and waiting, then it's a more profitable to do the former.

Then why didnt you said this?!

Seriously, you expect me to read your mind or think behind the wrong example you given to us?

 

But even if we account that let me ask you how many player you know who are not even near the endgame and is willing to sacrafice his playtime to spend hour on the tradechat spamming messages.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

11 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

These people fear that their monopolic investment of sacraficing actual gameplay to camp in the chaos we call tradechat will die as more people realize true prices.

They are not true traders, they dont want to wait for their investment to get valuable they want that cash now and whats better for that than finding some newbie on the tradechat and sell him overpriced rubbish and next time they are wondering why there are soo many people using the warframe market.

if you wait more then your potential buyers (player who dont have them yet) will decrease. you will not be sure how many new players comes in on the next vaulting. while it is a good strategy plat per item you will want to get rid of the item asap. merchants might not buy your wares because they will need to sell it at a higher price which will be harder.

but it all depends on the strategy in mind, some will work actively to gain plat while others will hoard and wait for the price increase, it all boils down on how active you are the trade chat

[Old_King_Belgothia]

I don't mind people giving away the Ignis Wraith. I mean, I wouldn't. I'd sell it for . But I have lots of ways to make so to me the people giving the BP away for free are just missing out on potential . Their choice, not really my problem :)

[-N7-Leonhart]

On 4/11/2017 at 3:59 AM, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

not really, traded plat is not money for DE, in fact DE will hate it when a player us able to obtain plat thru trade. since plats is harder to get thru trades you will start to think about buying it in the market.

primes prices are low, but rivens are still high.

Not at all, DE will encourage the trading from the chat, since it diversifies the spending player base.

For example, would there still be as many platinum buyers if they knew they can only use it to buy from the Market? No, lots of players get platinum to buy that one thing they want from someone else.

Example number 2: someone with 10k-20k plat (seen those) will never have enough things to spend it on the Market. But if he trades it to someone that needs it a lot more, then that platinum will be spent a lot faster.

Also, the Riven prices are only a fraction of what they used to be. It's not uncommon for people to give like 5 for 50p just because they're worthless and occupy precious space. Those you see that want to sell some average Rivens for hundreds are just some charades, they never work.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

2 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Not at all, DE will encourage the trading from the chat, since it diversifies the spending player base.

For example, would there still be as many platinum buyers if they knew they can only use it to buy from the Market? No, lots of players get platinum to buy that one thing they want from someone else.

Example number 2: someone with 10k-20k plat (seen those) will never have enough things to spend it on the Market. But if he trades it to someone that needs it a lot more, then that platinum will be spent a lot faster.

Also, the Riven prices are only a fraction of what they used to be. It's not uncommon for people to give like 5 for 50p just because they're worthless and occupy precious space. Those you see that want to sell some average Rivens for hundreds are just some charades, they never work.

ok so if DE wants us to trade, why make it a messy trade chat? seriously buying items is never a pleasant experience.

[(PSN)Ariies]

4 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

ok so if DE wants us to trade, why make it a messy trade chat? seriously buying items is never a pleasant experience.

We all know the trade chat is messy. Its god awful. But DE (IMO) wanted players to interact with each other more instead of having a cut and dry auction house. They tried to implement something better with the bazaar and ended up failing yet again. Just because the way you trade sucks ravaging ball loogies doesn't mean that DE doesn't want you to trade. If they didn't want you to.....they wouldn't have a trade system in place.........Obviously.

We have been trying to get them to change their minds about this trade system for years now...........they are reallllllllyyyyyyyyyy stubborn about it. Which is why I like warframe.market so much. its cut and dry. i'm in and out with what I want. It would be better if it was an ingame system tho.

[JalakBali]

On 4/16/2017 at 4:02 AM, Troll_Logic said:

Nothing encapsulates the difference between capitalism (prime/market forces) and communism (artificially set prices) than your example.

Just to correct you here, that is not how communism work. In fact, that is also not how capitalism work either. The difference in capitalism and communism is which class holding the "capitals" (in this sense, land and businesses). Capitalism can head towards artificially set prices since monopoly is part of it. Communism is also the same thing. You might be thinking of "free market" and "protectionism".

[JalakBali]

5 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

ok so if DE wants us to trade, why make it a messy trade chat? seriously buying items is never a pleasant experience.

It's maximum inconvenience, which is the price for making the market hard to manipulate. An easy access market is prone to market manipulation by speculators.

[(PSN)Ariies]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 9:44 PM, JalakBali said:

It's maximum inconvenience, which is the price for making the market hard to manipulate. An easy access market is prone to market manipulation by speculators.

Sure its inconvenient, but no matter how inconvenient it is, it can always be manipulated. Its not hard at all. There's nothing to base anything off of really. Unless you use the actual market as "base." Then again, not every item is in the market and it makes no sense to base prices off of it. If regular Rhino is 175p in the market, then it should stand to reason that Rhino Prime should be the same or more(pre-vaulted). A regular carrier is 75p in the market, yet I can buy a prime one for 30-35p. There are no professional speculators playing this game. They really don't manipulate the market, only take advantage of the changes within the market. A good seller will always look for an advantage to make more money. A good buyer will always look for best price, deal, and value.

[JalakBali]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Ariies said:

Sure its inconvenient, but no matter how inconvenient it is, it can always be manipulated. Its not hard at all. There's nothing to base anything off of really. Unless you use the actual market as "base." Then again, not every item is in the market and it makes no sense to base prices off of it. If regular Rhino is 175p in the market, then it should stand to reason that Rhino Prime should be the same or more(pre-vaulted). A regular carrier is 75p in the market, yet I can buy a prime one for 30-35p. There are no professional speculators playing this game. They really don't manipulate the market, only take advantage of the changes within the market. A good seller will always look for an advantage to make more money. A good buyer will always look for best price, deal, and value.

There are no market manipulator because it's very hard if not impossible to scale the market's depth. You can't manipulate an open, night market where there's no restriction who can sell, what could be sold and for how much. But it is very much possible to manipulate a stock market when it's listed and everything is easily observed because the only limit is how much capital you have to use to manipulate the market.

 

You seem to mistake "market manipulator" with "people haggling and getting good deals". People finding opportunity or finding or selling items for great prices are not manipulators. Manipulators are the people who artificially inflate or deflate prices on a global scale. For instance, if there's a market listing then someone could see how many of the items are available to sell and at which average price. He could buy up all of the available stock (with enough capital) and then monopolized the market for that item. You can't do that if you don't know how many of this item is still in the market because not that many are willing to sit in trade chat and monitoring a chat room for a long time.

[nerfinator6]

What the hell are you on about? Learn to economy.