Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Melkia]

8 hours ago, Leonix13 said:

Yes, yes he is...Oberon already had some energy issues, now because of the synergy he has more energy problems and less range.

Maybe use Rage? He could make use of it before and now with the toggleable Renewal it's even better. Range is fine, except for the inconsistencies between Hallowed Ground shape/range and Reckoning.

14 hours ago, NeonNemesis said:

Unless the wave in the new renewal is for show, you know you can outrun it?

I guess you could do that, but why would you? It doesn't require you to stand still and take enemy fire, you just have to stick with oberon for a moment...

[THeMooN85]

14 minutes ago, NeonNemesis said:

What you are speaking then is Damage reduction, and sadly that won't happen. Why, because it will step on Trinity's toes that also has DR. The only advantage Oberon had over her in healing was the range and even that got removed. also they added the Iron renewal quite recently (which IMO should be by default on HG and not on a energy ineficient synergy) adding DR would render IR obsolete they would never go backwards with a mechanic they put a bit of work in it no matter how little it was. The only time they did that was with Volt's coil because everyone was getting crazy with how now you had to collect coils and instead they would ignore them only to run into them later and die stupid deaths.

What you suggest also reminds me a bit of a concept I had that fused Renewal and Hallowed Ground, a Hallowed Renewal where it was an aura that kept healing and dealing damage (healing and damage scaling with power only) and would grant you armor equivalent to the level and number of enemies that were in the damage range of HR. Basicaly a scaling aura of defense with some heal and damage in the mid of it. It's short-coming to avoid being way too OP was getting sniped from outside its area so you would have to charge into battle to benefit from it. 

Bold. I like it. Sounds like good skill for melee Oberon.

[PhoenixXV]

Good question, since the mechanic seems pretty similar. I've never tried it, honestly. It might, but if I had to guess I would say probably no, since at least in that case you're actively reviving your pet from the downed state (even if it is instant), whereas Oberon's new passive just auto-reses the pet no matter where it gets downed, without any player interaction required. I have no proof for that theory as I haven't really playtested it at all (though if you are able to and have the desire to do so, more power to you), but if I had to guess I might assume that Oberon's new passive is coded somewhat similarly to Regen on sentinels or how the warframe revive you can use after you've died also revives dead pets (the use-case for both of which assumes that the pet actually enters a "dead" state rather than just a "downed" state) and as a result unintentionally marks a death for your kubrow each time it's used. 

But that's just the speculation of a confused and saddened dog-owner. Someone at DE probably knows better. 

[Music4Therapy]

2 minutes ago, Melkia said:

Maybe use Rage? He could make use of it before and now with the toggleable Renewal it's even better. Range is fine, except for the inconsistencies between Hallowed Ground shape/range and Reckoning.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo

Rage doesn't work in late game. Please, give him an energy regain mechanic like other ability spamming combo casters like Nidus, Limbo, Octavia, etc......

His 2-4-3 combo alone costs 175 energy. His base energy is 100.

 

His Hallowed Ground on its own is bad. idk if anyone else noticed, but it literally just prevents status effect, does a little damage, and has a chance of radiation. Thats it, not including the synergies. He also has an energy problem. You can solve both problems by simply making it to where he (and perhaps allies) on Hallowed Ground gain energy per kill or per second, etc...

[Akimbo]

Rage is not viable on a frame that needs to pump all attributes to be effective. Simply no space for it and Oberon isn't tough enough to want to be taking damage at higher levels. He also has no healing, you know, since Renewal is now utterly broken.

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, Akimbo said:

Rage is not viable on a frame that needs to pump all attributes to be effective. Simply no space for it and Oberon isn't tough enough to want to be taking damage at higher levels. He also has no healing, you know, since Renewal is now utterly broken.

Please give either of my threads on Oberon getting an energy gain mechanic a thumbs up. This idiotic, misinformed idea spreading that Rage works wonders with him is going to give me cancer.

Other ability spamming, combo-caster frames such as Nidus, Saryn, Limbo, and Octavia have methods to regain energy. Oberon, a frame with a base power of 100, needs similar treatment, esp considering his basic 2-4-3 combo costs 175 energy before mods.

[Nazzami]

1 hour ago, Music4Therapy said:

How is this relevant as to whether or not he shouldn't have an energy mechanic when other combo-casters such as Nidus, Octavia, Saryn, and Limbo do?

He has a base energy pool of 100 and is an ability spammer. I don't care if DE doubles his base energy pool with his prime variant, his 4-2-3 combo ALONE has a cost of 175.

He actually has a base energy of 150, goes up to 425 with primed flow and 300 with flow.

[Music4Therapy]

2 minutes ago, Nazzami said:

He actually has a base energy of 150, goes up to 425 with primed flow and 300 with flow.

Why do people keep coming at me with so much misinformation.

 

Base Energy = Energy at base. In other words, a freshly forma'd Oberon will have 100 BASE ENERGY.

[Akimbo]

20 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Please give either of my threads on Oberon getting an energy gain mechanic a thumbs up. This idiotic, misinformed idea spreading that Rage works wonders with him is going to give me cancer.

Other ability spamming, combo-caster frames such as Nidus, Saryn, Limbo, and Octavia have methods to regain energy. Oberon, a frame with a base power of 100, needs similar treatment, esp considering his basic 2-4-3 combo costs 175 energy before mods.

Given up on giving feedback. My thread which was well thought out and structured just got mashed into this stupid megathread to be lost to the ages for all time. Just look at the reworked rework. DE are so far off the mark as to how to balance / rework this game I don't really see the point anymore.

[KX297]

He needs some way to get energy back outside of Rage.

Currently, if you have Renewal on all allies and yourself, and they start taking damage, it becomes one hell of a drain even with some reduction through modding.

Then we have to consider that DE really wants us to use Hallowed Ground + some other power to recieve the full benifits of his kit.

So, we have a heal that drains energy harder as your team takes damage and a kit that relies on ability combos to sustain maximum benifits, yet has no way to make up for the energy costs in any form on its own.

Rage is fine, but I dislike the idea of having to take damage just to keep my combos flowing. Or at least, I dislike relying on it almost fully. Sure, energy orbs drop, but those aren't really reliable due to RNG being a cursed and evil entity.

And while I agree with the thought that Hallowed Ground restoring minor amounts of energy per enemy killed on it, I think it wouldn't currently work well due to how small the dam thing is. Now if it had a range increase ever so slightly or possibly a minor taunt that helped to force enemies onto it, this might work better. Right now, I have trouble fighting enemies on it becuase it's so friggin small in the grand scheme of things.

At higher levels, I really don't want to stand still or be limited to a small area. I really wish DE would either make it into an aura or increase the range. Otherwise, the power will always feel odd in this game, at least to me.

Also, they need to make it easier to see. I still have trouble seeing where it ends on some poorly lit maps, and I'm playing on high settings...

Just my two cents on the matter.

(Coming from a six forma Oberon that I use for fun missions, but don't often use in endurance runs due to his... issues).

[Windy_Wind]

Rage could have been better on him if his 4th dropped health orb on HIT instead of on KILL,which allows him to use Health Conversion and Equilibrium build. Yeah, a simple small change like that could have turned him into something decent 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Windy_Wind

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, Akimbo said:

Given up on giving feedback. My thread which was well thought out and structured just got mashed into this stupid megathread to be lost to the ages for all time. Just look at the reworked rework. DE are so far off the mark as to how to balance / rework this game I don't really see the point anymore.

Yeah, been looking at the profiles of many of these more vocal players and they have hardly any experience playing Oberon at all.

Its just a bunch of idiots at this point and the loudest idiot is going to be the one thats heard. Like Brozime throwing a hissy fit over twitch then immediately getting a hotfix afterwards.

[KX297]

1 hour ago, Hemmo67 said:

okay do u even know efficency mods exist?

You know that even at minimal drain, if all four party members take damage (or worse, are on the recieving end of some form of sustained damage), the drain from Renewal is still a hefty one.

Not to mention that hefty drain is the accompanied by the costs of having to activate your other powers.

Sure, efficiency may help, but to achieve max efficiency you take up two mod slots plus lose 50% power duration that needs to be accounted for somewhere else so that your other powers don't suffer too much.

Again, while Rage and effeciency may help to alleviate some of the issues, they don't really FIX the underlying problem that DE has turned Oberon into an inefficient energy hog. 

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by KX297

[KX297]

2 hours ago, RiouHotaru said:

Saryn doesn't have an energy restore outside of popping spores with a weapon that's been buffed by her 3.  Which requires you to work at melee range.  Most people refuse to do that because they think Saryn is squishy.  (And most people STILL use rage on Saryn)

Nidus 'energy restore' only effects his 1.  And you have to hit at least 4 enemies to have a net energy GAIN.  At three enemies you just get back what you spent.  Which isn't really efficient.  The fact he has no shields a-la Inaros means there's no reason NOT to use Rage.

Octavia's passive just acts like an extra Energy Siphon aura and really only nets you an overall gain if you use her abilities super sparingly.

 

None of this is really a sustainable energy restore.  Just use Rage.

I can't really agree that 'most' people don't use Saryn as a melee frame. A well built Saryn accompanied by a Lifestrike/Healing Return melee weapon can sustain herself pretty well, even at higher levels, and I've seen a fair amount of players doing it. Sure, it's not optimal and your probably shouldn't rely on it, but the point is it's there if needed or wanted. 

As for Nidus, his 2+1 combo makes it INCREDIBLY easy to gain energy. Having gone very far with him using a negative effeciency build, I can say anyone using him shouldn't run into many, if any, energy problems. And if by some chance you do end up losing energy from a 2+1 combo, then that means there (probably) aren't enough enemies around to warrant using it. At least, from my experiences. 

With the way Octavia works, if you build for an optimal amount of duration and use her passive with energy siphon, you shouldn't run into too many issues. Even less so if you use her powers effeciently. Sure, high strength builds may have some issues if they run Blind Rage, but otherwise, most of the time energy shouldn't be to crazy hard to maintain. And agian, similar to Saryn, the point is it is here if it's ever needed or wanted, but probably shouldn't be fully relied on.

Oberon is now a very ineffecient frame when it comes to power casting. He really needs to use all of his powers together to recieve full benifits, but that can be costly. And unlike these other frames who can at least mitigate or refund some energy, he has no way to cut down his casting costs or refunding energy.

Not to mention if he wants to be a supportive player, Renewal can lead to some heavy energy draining AND prevents energy regen/EV. Octavia, Nidus, and Saryn for examples can all use energy siphon, benifit from EV, and if they have it even Zenurik.

Personally, I believe he needs something minor. Limbo is a good example. The ten energy/kill in the rift is good, aids him in casting, and isn't overpowered. If Overon had say 5-10 energy per kill on Hallowed Ground, I feel he'd be in a better spot. As it stands though, I feel like implementing this should also be accompanied by at LEAST a minor range buff, cause that thing is WAY to small for a game like this.

Just my opinions on the matter. I've tried the most recent Oberon alterations, and Renewal can be pretty energy intensive with a full squad and a large number of enemies (or even a small amount of higher level enemies).

[KX297]

26 minutes ago, Windy_Wind said:

Rage could have been better on him if his 4th dropped health of on HIT instead of on KILL,which allow him to use Health Conversion and Equilibrium build. Yeah, a simple small change like that could have turned him into something decent 

This is a good point too.

If they would just change Reckoning already we might have a second frame who can make good use of Health Conversion.

Not only that, it would make him a better healer.

I really believe it should be a "on hit" ability. It would open Oberon to more builds and make him more versatile. Imagine an "on-hit" max range Reckoning Oberon build? That sounds pretty cool. Hopefully DE does finally change it.

In our current iteration, the health globe affect of Reckoning is near useless due to its low damage and poor scaling. Actually killing things with it can become somewhat difficult depending on level/enemy faction/armor value.

[NeonNemesis]

IMO Hallowed Ground should have by default the Iron Renewal buff once you touch it and the armor strip as long as enemies are on top of it. not shoved into these forced synergies that take a brutal toll on Oberon's small energy pool.

When to pull a combo you exceed your frame's maximum energy and you need to mod just to compensate and not to bring out the best of the skills you know someone messed up hard in this rework.

[KX297]

1 hour ago, Hemmo67 said:

if u compare zenistar with radiation based aoe ability ofcourse you build it for radiation not corrosive

I'd say the Zenistar is still leagues ahead of Hallowed Ground.

Maybe it's just me, but a Radiation/Viral build would still work WAY better than what we currently have with Hallowed Ground. And for what purpose would you ONLY build for Radiation?

As mention previously, why are you trying to compare the two anyways? You'd have to really gimp the Zenistar for Hallowed Ground to compete, or use so much power strength on Oberon it would screw with a solid build.

[Hemmo67]

Just now, KX297 said:

I'd say the Zenistar is still leagues ahead of Hallowed Ground.

Maybe it's just me, but a Radiation/Viral build would still work WAY better than what we currently have with Hallowed Ground. And for what purpose would you ONLY build for Radiation?

As mention previously, why are you trying to compare the two anyways? You'd have to really gimp the Zenistar for Hallowed Ground to compete, or use so much power strength on Oberon it would screw with a solid build.

you just don't get it and i ain't gona explain since u clearly don't want to know how comparing works

[Vafthrudnir]

3 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Yeah, so because Volt (WHO HAS THE LARGEST ENERGY POOL IN THE GAME AND DOESN'T SPAM HIS ABILITIES)

Tell that to riot shield and speed spam every 7 seconds.

[NeonNemesis]

1 hour ago, Melkia said:

I guess you could do that, but why would you? It doesn't require you to stand still and take enemy fire, you just have to stick with oberon for a moment...

The point is that later on you can't afford to stay still or to willingly choose your positioning, and if you're low on HP chances are that you're under fire and trying to avoid it, if Oberon casts renewal to try to help you with its reducced speed you'll outrun it while avoiding to get shot and without its infinite range you'll also leave its range. Result Oberon lost energy, no one benfitted from renewal. It's a lose-lose situation whereas before Oberon would have lost a bit of energy but the healing would have been done.

Take into account that even with the delay that Oberon gets from cast animation he's still perfectly able to outrun it and he's not even a fast frame, now think about a teammate that is nearby not on top of you but is forced to GTFO because he has Bombardiers missiles chasing him.

[Vafthrudnir]

3 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Yeah, so because Volt (WHO HAS THE LARGEST ENERGY POOL IN THE GAME AND DOESN'T SPAM HIS ABILITIES)

Tell that to riot shield and speed spam every 7 seconds.

And Discharge every 8, because apparently it's the skill that makes him viable and the rest of the kit should be just situational.

[Vafthrudnir]

Derp

Edited April 28, 2017 by giovanniluca

[Vafthrudnir]

Sorry forum derped for me.

Edited April 28, 2017 by giovanniluca

[KX297]

4 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

you just don't get it and i ain't gona explain since u clearly don't want to know how comparing works

I understand how comparing works entirely, which is why i'm questioning you.

These are two 100% different things. Sure, they serve mildy similar purposes, but still, one's a melee weapon and one's a Warframe ability.

This is like asking whether the Soma Prime is better than the Dread, and then comparing them.

And lets assume you do use pure radiation on your Zenistar. I still think a Zenistar would out-damage hallowed ground. Not only can it achieve a high status chance easily, but it deals exeptional damage.

On the other hand, you need a good chunk of power strength to get hallowed ground to have a ~decent~ amount of damage and status chance. Which, again, wil screw with a solid Oberon build.

Even with Reckoning's armor stripping, I think the Zenistar would be better. It requires a lot of energy to cast Hallowed Ground followed by enough Reckonings to actually strip the armor.

On the other hand, I can just chunk the Zenistar's disk. And it will deal solid damage. Without any aid from a totally seperate source outside of modding.

[FriarTuck]

Nice, i found open topic..

5 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Edit: Rage shouldn't be his primary source of energy regain as suggested by the comment below. Other frames built around combos and synergy such as Limbo, Nidus, Octavia, Saryn, etc... have energy gain mechanics in their kits to make their combos work. Oberon should have the same.

Just look inside the spoiler.

Spoiler

Synergies with reduced cost, energy gain.

Ash - only reduced cost of BS if Ash is invisible. Energy gain? Nope.
Atlas - reduced cost of Landslide's combo. Energy gain? Nope.
Banshee - 0 synergies. Energy gain? Nope.
Chroma - nothing and nothing.
Ember - 0 synergies, 10 energy per heat proc on Ember. Good, 100lvl Napalm will provide you with energy for the rest of your life.
Equinox - 0, built-in Equilibrium.
Excalibur - nothing, nothing.
Frost - nothing, nothing.
Hydroid - nothing, nothing.
Inaros - nothing, nothing.
Ivara - nothing, nothing.
Limbo - finally. 0 synergies, passive regen, energy from killing in Rift.
Loki - nothing, nothing.
Mag - nothing, chance to drop an orb using Pull.
Mesa - nothing, nothing.
Mirage - nothing,.. wow.. " Warframes restore 5 energy for every passage and can recharge 5 energy every half second while remaining in contact with the lasers. A maximum of 50 energy can be restored per laser barrier. ".. Oookay..
Nekros - nothing, energy orbs form Desecrate.
Nezha - nothing, nothing.
Nidus - nothing, energy from Virulence (5+ targets).
Nova - nothing, nothing.
Nyx - nothing, nothing.
Oberon - nothing, nothing.
Octavia - nothing, passive regen.
Rhino - reduced cost of Charge's combo. Energy gain? Nope.
Saryn - reduced cost of Spores (when cast on Molt), energy regen from spores burst bu Lash.
Titania - nothing, nothing.
Trinity - nothing, Energy Vampire.
Valkyr - reduced cost of Ripline's combo, nothing.
Vauban - nothing, nothing.
Volt - nothing, nothing.
Wukong - nothing, nothing.
Zephyr - nothing, nothing.

So.. we have 32 warframes. 5 of them can reduce cost of 1 of their abilities. 10 can somehow gain energy. Only 6 can gain energy at will and only 3 of them do not need enemies for this. 3/32. 9.4%.

Of course, I'm not saying "No, Oberon's energy pool and energy gain must remain untouched!", it can be increased/changed, but it's not "O no, Oberon is The-Only-Frame-Without-Energy-Regen".

About Rage..
Inaros (200armor + SFiber + SSwarm = 640 armor) can't regen energy, Inaros can benefit from Rage. Why shouldn't he use it?
Oberon (150 armor + SFiber + HGround = 395-913 armor) can't regen energy, Oberon can benefit from Rage. So why not?