Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[-Onyx-Phalian]

4 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

AGAIN

jesus its like you didn't even read it

So basically you're asking Smite to be worthless? Smite's "scaling" us down right laughable as you either have to use Power Strength to make your other abilities decent or negative Power Strength so your Smite orbs can actually pack a punch. There are already other non-damage focused frames who can wipe rooms in 10 casts of their 1 (such as Nidus, Octavia only needs to cast her 1 once and let the enemy kill themselves). Also Radiation damage is resisted by flesh so it would take more than just 10. 

[mitokens]

I want to like Oberon so much, that this update has me posting on the forums for the first time. I actually really like this rework except for 3 things:

• Dat Passive. Whoo boy it's adorable. But useless. Here's another idea that might better fit the whole "Paladin" theme:
  "Stop Dying so much!" While reviving an ally/companion/etc, both Oberon and the revive target receive a buff that lasts for 1 second per level. For each of Oberon's levels, this buff grants 10 armor, and 0.1 energy/second regen. (Upto a maximum of 300 bonus armor, and 3 energy/second, for 30 seconds.)
   
• Hollowed Ground only has a 15%/s status chance? That seems kinda low if you ask me. Mebe bump it to 25%? Or 30%? Hell, go crazy, and push it all the way to 50%?
   
• Reckoning has a 50% chance to drop health orbs on kills? So it only finally triggers when I don't actually need it anymore?
  Maybe bump that chance down to like 20~25%, but trigger on hits instead of on kills. Then I'll get the health orbs when they're needed.

 

Oberon is really really close to becoming my 2nd favorite frame (to Nekros). So just keep tweaking it until you get something useful. Hopefully somebody can do something with these ideas. I don't actually think he needs anything particularly extreme.

P.S. I'm really loving this interaction between Renewal and Rage. That synergy is totally the 💩.

[Ardhanarishvara]

I still contend that Oberon's energy problems are not as big an issue as people seem to be making them out to be. I get the feeling a lot of you are trying to spam certain abilities constantly, instead of using them when and where they are needed, as allowed, resulting in a greater occurrence of the "problem" than should realistically be expected. Several individuals contend that Rage is not a good idea, or is a burden on his build, when he is one of the few 'frames that as of right now, can take several level 120 corrupted bombards to the face and still keep ticking BEFORE blocking, a benefit that can be extended to his entire party. KEEP IN MIND THAT SHIELD GATING WILL BE COMING DOWN THE PIPE RELATIVELY SOON, REDUCING ONE-SHOT OCCURRENCES AND IN GENERAL REDUCING ENERGY DRAIN FROM RENEWAL EVEN FURTHER.

I would argue that Oberon is one of the best 'frames to fit Rage on, period, and you should really treat it as an ubiquitous part of your kit and playstyle. I only have Rage and Streamline, and only run into energy issues when I:

1. Spam 2 or 4 multiple times in a row, or
2. Nekros summons shadows of the dead,
3. Run into several Energy Leech or Parasite eximus,

the first being something that I do not feel should be expected from an Oberon as a matter of course in general, and the second being something that could be fixed by allowing duration and efficiency to effect team healing costs (or simply negating cost of healing shadows), and the third being a natural encounter of gameplay that causes issues for ANY 'frame, for which 'frames that can utilize Rage are heavily valued for their ability to quickly recover from.

I feel that too many people are suggesting wide-sweeping mechanical changes, some of which actually take a step backwards, or are simplifying the kit too far to the point that Oberon feels less dynamic and more toolbox-y. I take special issue with the idea that he should have some sort of energy regain mechanic of any sort, as we have a million billion ways to deal with that "problem", a "problem" that I see on all other well-worn warframes from the past, and a totally acceptable problem that forces us to be smart with our builds and gameplay. End result is that I feel a simple band-aid of increasing his energy pool to 200 would fix handily, along with adjusting the team heal energy cost of Renewal. _{(Plus, my suggestion for Smite as detailed on page 52 would suggest that "shards" are blown out of any enemy you cast Smite on, scaling with health and, specifically against Grineer, having a multiplier based on the target's armour rating, dealing extra, moderately scaling damage when Reckoning is used and having a chance to yield health/energy orbs. It's no "give 10 energy for every enemy killed with reckoning on hallowed ground" or "5 energy for every enemy killed on hallowed ground" but it's something, while also addressing a mechanical lack in synergy between two abilities and increasing the power output of both 1 and 4 significantly.)}

Corrupted and prime mods exist specifically so you can tool his kit however you like. Every warframe struggles with having to make concessions to make certain builds work. I use neither in mine, and yet come out feeling perfectly fresh, if my 1 and 4 are a little lacking and wanting for 2 and 3's synergy to be a little easier and intuitive to achieve. It depends a LOT on how you play with him.

 

---

8 hours ago, Koed said:

Didn't really read beyond this but for the sake of the lols lets add another category "DPS" and see if that benefits Oberon's overall score or the notion that he is a JOAT and Valkyr and Nidus are not.

Oberon: Crowd Controller: 5     Tank: 3     Damage Buffer: 2     Healer/Team Survivability: 4     DPS: 2     Total: 16

Valkyr: Crowd Controller: 6     Tank: 9     Damage Buffer: 5     Healer/Team Survivability: 3     DPS: 10     Total: 33

Nidus: Crowd Controller: 4     Tank: 10     Damage Buffer: 4     Healer/Team Survivability: 3     DPS: 10     Total: 31

Now you have 5 categories and Oberon scores 2 in 2 of them, meaning he is a jack of 3/3,5 out of 5 trades. The other two however touches ALL 5 categories meaning they must be way more of a JOAT than Oberon! On top of that they excel in 2 areas and their overall score I is 2 TIMES HIGHER than Oberon.

As I have said to others. With the above.... Why is Oberon a JOAT and Valkyr and Nidus aren't? And why should we settle with such a laughable kit that Oberon has?

There are several problems with this interpretation. Several massive problems. And they largely come down to you POWERFULLY underestimating Oberon's capabilities, as well as POWERFULLY overvaluing Valkyr and Nidus's capabilities.

Mostly my issue is with the tank and healer/team survivability sections, for which you're valuing Oberon as a 3 and 4 respectively, when he's closer to an 8 and 8. When you can make both you yourself as well as your entire team as tanky as Valkyr, moreso under the proper conditions, they have no business being that low. Being that he's well-suited to a Rage build, bringing Guardian Derision on a melee with good blocking capabilities _{(which constitutes one third of all melee weapon types, many of which are among the most commonly used weapons in the game)} only increases his tankiness even further in addition to drawing attention away from teammates and providing an ample source of energy recovery when used in conjunction with Rage, increasing his tank and team survivability stats even further, but I won't calculate for a particular weapon build. Keeping in mind that Renewal also cleanses status effects when anyone reaches full health, Oberon is very much death prevention rather than death recovery, as opposed to Valkyr who isn't particularly well built for keeping allies alive, as her armour bonus from Warcry is dependent on their own armour _{(as opposed to Iron Renewal)} and she's better put to use using Hysteria to enter a mosh pit and revive them.

As for crowd controller, Valkyr needs extremely specialized builds that strongly affect her damage output or survivability to take advantage of those functions, and she should be a 3 at best as a result because those very same functions can be performed by other 'frames far better. Crowd controller, Nidus should honestly be 9 thanks to Larva and Ravenous debilitating and distracting enemies quite handily, while I'd put Oberon at 7 simply because three of his four abilities confuse, and two of those cause knockdown or weaken nearby enemies, significantly reducing the number of enemies targeting you or teammates. Only reason he isn't higher is because they don't last as long as Nyx and should be used more for priority target interruption and as a panic button due to them eating into a pool best reserved for healing.

And lastly as a damage buffer, Valkyr's Warcry only buffs damage for a single weapon type by way of increasing attack speed, and building for that means sacrificing other aspects of her build. I'd put her at a 4, at most. The same build is what gives her DPS potential, but also takes away from her tankiness since her 4's claws cannot possibly match up to many of the best actual melee weapons after a certain point.

I'd total them out like this:

Oberon: Crowd Controller: 7     Tank: 8     Damage Buffer: 2     Healer/Team Survivability: 8     DPS: 2     Total: 27
Valkyr: Crowd Controller: 3     Tank: 8     Damage Buffer: 4     Healer/Team Survivability: 3     DPS: 9     Total: 27
Nidus: Crowd Controller: 8     Tank: 10     Damage Buffer: 4     Healer/Team Survivability: 4     DPS: 9     Total: 35

It's not much surprise that Nidus has the highest total - most people agree that he's one of the best-made 'frames of the modern age. But I feel your understanding of what makes each 'frame unique and valuable in their own right is lacking in context for their particular uses and niche, as well as how their abilities affect their potential builds. In general, people are not going to build Valkyr for crowd control, while that is something that Oberon has to a limited extent while not sacrificing his tank/deathprevention capabilities.

I've done you a favour and not included Hallowed Eruption in the calculations for DPS, since that ability is CONSIDERABLY STRONGER THAN RECKONING and can nuke Grineer well up to level 100, built properly.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Ardhanarishvara
Subscript

[Buddhakingpen]

Lol @ some people trying to rework the rework.

Small buffs people. small buffs. 

Keep in mind DEscott thinks he's in a good spot. So requesting they gut a brand new passive, or put armor shredding on different moves is likely a waste of time. 

Mogamu probably has the most balanced video out there on the rework.

Honestly, 50% armor shred on his 4. Boom. Easy. Then no one can complain about his 1 being nerfed by armor, and it'd give him a spot as "the support frame that provides the things we dont want to mod our weapons for, but have to because of scaling" 

[Music4Therapy]

18 minutes ago, Phalian said:

So basically you're asking Smite to be worthless? Smite's "scaling" us down right laughable as you either have to use Power Strength to make your other abilities decent or negative Power Strength so your Smite orbs can actually pack a punch. There are already other non-damage focused frames who can wipe rooms in 10 casts of their 1 (such as Nidus, Octavia only needs to cast her 1 once and let the enemy kill themselves). Also Radiation damage is resisted by flesh so it would take more than just 10. 

I see your point. That said, I would argue that Nidus in particular is justified in that his kit requires that he mash his 1 in order to gain stacks. And it takes a long time for those stacks to build all the way up. Also, Nidus falls off vs armor and vs level theoretically since his damage isn't % based. Oberon has an armor strip built into his kit and doesn't have to build stacks to do his full damage potential. Same with Octavia, she doesn't press 1 and everything is nuked.

Also, Nidus's and Octavia's 1s both focus on damage and their kits are completely centered around them. Oberon? His one has knock and spreads 2 status effects. His kit functions without Smite, if you tried playing Nidus without his 1 you wouldn't be playing Nidus for example.

Oberon's smite is a utility ability and people want it to be some crowd clearer. Compare it to Ember's 1, Vauban's 1, Frost's 1, Nekros's 1, Chroma's 1, etc... Oberon's Smite is definitely in the top tier of first abilities in the game as is. Yall are asking for a mile.

[n_0x]

26 minutes ago, Densetsu_No_Hikari said:

A follow up to the revision I posted a while back, which I've chosen to revisit now that Oberon's rework is currently relevant. While his rework does work quite well thus far, some abilities are simply rendered useless, and the synergy with others seems rather forced. The idea of Oberon being a jack of all trades is difficult when he has only 4 abilities to work with, in my opinion at least. I'm sticking with the abilities I had with the first iteration of the revision for the most part, other abilities seem fine as they are but could use a minor tweak here and there.

1. Judgement: Oberon cycles through 4 different methods of judgement, allowing him unique methods in striking down the enemy.

1a. Smite: same as before, no need for a change.

1b. Sunlight Spear: a fairly complex power, Oberon charges a sunlight spear, maintaining it as long as the power button is held down. There are three levels of charge, at the first, it will deal 500 base damage and peel off 40% of armor, at the second, it will deal 800 base damage and peel off 75% of armor, and at the third level of charge, it will deal 1200 base damage and peel off 100% of armor while dealing radial damage. each charge costs an extra 25 energy, and spears have travel time (albeit a short one). At the third level of charge however, spears will track enemies. Armor debuff is temporary.

1c. Seeking Hunters: Oberon summons 3/5/7/9 woodland spirits that will fly about the battlefield firing beams of radiation at foes. These woodland spirits will be vengeful souls of war, and thus be depicted as the skulls of vicious beasts. The spirits will occasionally give pulses of health to allies. They will fly about very quickly, avoiding a great deal of gunfire this way, and will draw attention to themselves to reduce stress on Oberon and allies. Enemies killed by the woodland spirits are reduced to a pile of fine gray dust, because that would be awesome.

1d. Ravenous Crows: Oberon dispels into a swarm of flesh eating crows, flying about the battlefield totally invincible, but not invisible. Enemies caught in the crows will begin to panic. If Oberon reforms over an enemy that is panicking, he will automatically perform a finisher on them with his melee. Damage from the crows is rather light.

2. Hallowed Ground: Maintaining the same mechanics and fashion as found in the current rework. However, any enemy caught in the initial cast of hallowed ground's area are impaled by roots, and held there for the duration of hallowed ground. When allies strike the enemies that are restrained, a small amount of health is rewarded to them.

3. Renewal: They got it right, no need for a change, aside from reworking its energy economy a bit.

4. Reckoning: This ability needs some work in my opinion. We should maintain the current synergy with it, but more should be added as well. Enemies defeated by Reckoning will create a small area of hallowed ground, and kubrow spirits will crawl out of the hallowed ground while it is active. Let the wild hunt begin!

 

As far as his passive and current stats, they seem to be in a good spot right now. Some people say that his current rework is doing just fine, but an overhaul would be a nice change of pace for him, I think. What do you guys think?

And here's a picture of a cat:

What if you made ravenous crows it's own ability with the added benefit of "passing through enemies gives Oberon X energy" and have it work like an escape and reset tool to solve his energy problems and keep the panic to give him a form of good CC that he actively worked for. 

And kick hallowed ground to reckoning full time since they seem like 1 ability split into 2.

and cute cat

[Nez-Kal]

My real problem with Oberon is when I step out of my Landing Craft and look to my left and see him, all I can think is "WHY are you here?"

To clarify:

- I see a Frost: "Ah, bubble defense man is here!" and/or "I'm gonna be seeing some easy pickings slowed/frozen enemies around!"

- I see a Trinity: "Yeah! Mah Energy/Life girl is here! Time to spam casts!"

- I see a Nidus/Loki/Valkyr/Rhino: "Ah, they got this. I don't have to worry about them, and if I go down, I'm sure they'll be around to pick me up."

- I see a Limbo: "....Well, this is either gonna be easy-peasy make myself a cup of tea....or absolute hell."

- I see a Mag: "....I'm so sorry." (Personal joke, sorry)

- I see Nova: "FUN BOOM BOOM EXPLODE-Y TIME!"

- I see an Ivara: "Well, they'll be creeping in a corner somewhere. Don't have to worry about them too much" and/or "Who put these zip lines here?"

- I see a Nyx: "Confused Enemies inbound!" and/or "2 Miles per Hour Bubble Tank time!"

Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

But when I see an Oberon, I don't KNOW why they're there, and what they'll bring for the team.

- Are...you going to give me Armor Buffs? Should I leap right in front of your face whenever you put down a Hallowed Ground....or are you just going to look at me like I'm weird and shoot at Radiated enemies?

- Are you here to heal me?...Or are you going to ignore that energy sucking ability altogether and just focus on keeping yourself alive?

- Are you gonna attempt to strip high level enemy armor....or are you just going to ignore that gimmick altogether?

- Are you here to add Radiation Crowd control....or, again, are you just going to pop it whenever YOU need it to keep yourself alive?

 

When I see an Oberon it's a real question of "Are you here for the team, Or are you just a solo build?".

Unlike quite a few Frames, that Team/Solo question REALLY changes Oberon altogether for me, so I can never be sure what I'm looking at when one jumps into my Squad.

 

 

[-Onyx-Phalian]

2 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

I see your point. That said, I would argue that Nidus in particular is justified in that his kit requires that he mash his 1 in order to gain stacks. And it takes a long time for those stacks to build all the way up. Also, Nidus falls off vs armor and vs level theoretically since his damage isn't % based. Oberon has an armor strip built into his kit and doesn't have to build stacks to do his full damage potential. Same with Octavia, she doesn't press 1 and everything is nuked.

Also, Nidus's and Octavia's 1s both focus on damage and their kits are completely centered around them. Oberon? His one has knock and spreads 2 status effects. His kit functions without Smite, if you tried playing Nidus without his 1 you wouldn't be playing Nidus for example.

Oberon's smite is a utility ability and people want it to be some crowd clearer. Compare it to Ember's 1, Vauban's 1, Frost's 1, Nekros's 1, Chroma's 1, etc... Oberon's Smite is definitely in the top tier of first abilities in the game as is. Yall are asking for a mile.

I am just saying that increasing Power Strength on a scaling ability should hit a bit more significantly. If you noticed I NEVER mentioned hard numbers as I would admit that without any way to extensively test, there is no way I can find exact percentages so that it isn't too strong. I am just asking for Smite to be relevant since knock downs are only for about 1 second, Radiation is a coin flip whether or not they would attack a friendly or continue to try and kill you, and the Puncture proc really falls off late game. 

[Ardhanarishvara]

1 minute ago, Tangent-Valley said:

My real problem with Oberon is when I step out of my Landing Craft and look to my left and see him, all I can think is "WHY are you here?"

When I see an Oberon it's a real question of "Are you here for the team, Or are you just a solo build?".

Unlike quite a few Frames, that Team/Solo question REALLY changes Oberon altogether for me, so I can never be sure what I'm looking at when one jumps into my Squad.

I think that largely comes down to the fact that his rework is still fresh, and people haven't had time to acclimatize to it and adjust their expectations of the warframe accordingly. Plus, the rework isn't quite finished yet. Give it another two to four weeks and I'm sure you and everyone else will have their answer by then.

But I do think that the absolute minimum you should be able to expect from Oberon is healing. Even an Oberon built for damage via Hallowed Eruption nukes is going to have some level of healing to offer you. This alone increases team survivability considerably. A well-played Oberon should be interrupting priority targets in general, too, with his 1 by knocking them down and potentially using finishers on them.

[Music4Therapy]

Every time someone proposes a full rework I die a bit inside.

Like do you people really think they are going to full on rework just after he was revamped? Do you really think that they are going to do a fullscale rework just before his prime release? Really people? Really? The time to ask was BEFORE they started the process of actually reworking him.

That said, #SmiteForEnergyGain2017

Edited April 30, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Epitheton]

We all know the rework generally made him better but still suffers from similar problems as before. Before rework, Oberon, was a frame with okay CC and his unique power in Renewal. After rework, Oberon, is still pretty much seen the same as before aside from his unique power in Renewal that was made easier to use. Here, I try to list and address as many points, issues, and concerns as I can; starting with what we know so far with his reworked state.

Stats

·         300 base Health at rank 30 is average regardless of whether they are casters or not

·         150 base armour is better than most caster frames but not enough to match most frames designed for the frontlines

·         150 base Energy at rank 30 is much less than most caster frames however normal for most fighter frames

Passive

Pros:

·         Better than pre-rework where in that it can be detrimental

·         Nice bonus for Companion users

Cons:

·         Situational, works only for Companions

Smite

Pros:

·         Decent upfront damage

·         Decent CC: knockdown and radiation proc on initial target, orbs can deal puncture proc

·         Scaling damage serves as good damage against single targets, more notably high level boss enemies

Cons:

·         Radiation proc is not reliable or as good as people suggest, AI of higher level enemies seem to prioritize players over friendlies if players are in line-of-sight

·         Puncture proc propagation tied to Power Strength affecting number created of orbs

·         Scaling damage is split evenly across orbs, requiring multiple orbs hits to do any real damage

·         Duration affects orb lifetime therefore affecting how far it can travel rendering power range less effective for it

·         Despite many people say it’s decent, it is outclassed by other 25 energy powers with better or more reliable CC like Frost’s Freeze or even Mag’s Pull

Hallowed Ground

Pros:

·         Area is more appropriate to fight in than before

·         Grants proc immunity

·         Can irradiate enemies

·         Iron Renewal synergy

Cons:

·         Still a very awkward shape, newer Oberon players may find missing slice of burning ground behind them strange (145% power range giving 261°), radius is still too small

·         Radiation proc chance is too low and as noted before: is not reliable CC

·         Requires players to stand on it to gain proc immunity limiting best damage mitigation in maneuvering

·         Lacks any other reason/incentive to fight on it

Renewal

Pros:

·         Good initial heal

·         Respectable health regeneration

·         Toggled; no longer ends prematurely when healed fully

·         Iron Renewal synergy

Cons:

·         Energy drain that increases with every affected injured ally

·         Toggled; caster touching nullifier shields outright cancels Renewal for all affected allies

·         Toggled; energy pool of 150 at rank 30 can not sustain a toggled power

Reckoning

Pros:

·         High early-to-mid game damage

·         Strong area CC; emergency button: Knockdown, radiation proc, blind

·         Deals bonus damage to irradiated enemies

·         Armour stripping

·         Chance to spawn health orbs on kill

Cons:

·         Damage is too low in high level missions making health orb spawns on kill useless

·         Outclassed by many other powers that have similar purpose/use

·         Blind is an afterthought, having very poor range, and is only emitted from enemies surviving the power

·         Requires targets to be on Hallowed Ground to utilize Reckoning’s armour strip effect

·         Does not strip enough armour to be a noteworthy effect; strips current armour

 

I will compare current Oberon to base Frost as both of their kits are closest in achieving a similar goal in a squad.

Smite’s damage feels weaker than it was for starchart content and feels like it is only better than before (not by much) on high-level enemies. Newer Oberon players, they will find Smite to be a weaker power than other frames 1^st power because they will not notice the effectiveness of the procs it inflicts as the effects of it won’t be clear to them; unlike if they use Frost’s Freeze, they will observe a clear, noticeable effect. Adding scaling damage to Smite is a cop-out to simply make it an attractive power, which in practice, is not. Not only that, it requires range and duration to make some good use of it’s projectiles.

Hallowed Ground costs a considerable 50 energy to cast for primarily status immunity in awkward conic shape. And to gain it’s effects you must be standing on it and the radiation procs are negligible when irradiated enemies can still kill you in their crossfire. There’s still no incentive to try and even fight on it. Frost’s Ice Wave, while it doesn’t have status immunity, it has a significantly better function for it’s cost, it applies a cold proc to all enemies in a cone, and with it’s augment, it creates a better control zone than Hallowed Ground could ever wish to be.

Here is where the powers are truly unique. Oberon’s and Frost’s 3^rd powers are Renewal and Snow Globe, respectively. Both these powers are meant to increase survivability, however, achieves them in entirely different ways. Renewal fires a wave that channels energy to contacted allies with health regeneration and has a synergy with Hallowed Ground granting a good amount of armour. Snow Globe deploys a stationary dome that protects from all projectiles while doubling as a powerful zone of control with its augment. Snow Globe also doesn’t have the downside of having to drain energy to keep friendlies alive for a single price of 50 energy with ease unlike Oberon who needs to use 75 energy and suffer an energy drain.

As for their 4^th power, they are similar in their functions. However, Avalanche is simply everything Reckoning wants to be but isn’t. Everything from it damage, crowd control with a lengthy freeze and cold procs, and even its armour stripping, having a using augment, outclasses Reckoning.  Nothing about Reckoning is truly unique or potent in comparison to Avalanche.

As a dedicated Oberon player, it pains me that he what he was meant to be and that he also isn’t where he should be. I’m also saddened that other Oberon mains are even satisfied with how he is now when the rework did very little to solve the problems he still suffers from. All those comparisons make Oberon is worst Frost and he is, and there’s nothing super defining about Oberon that differentiates him from other protectors like Frost. So why is he less than half the things he is claimed to be? Why is he also less than half the warframe that others are? Oberon isn’t a protector. He was sold to us as a paladin, a zealous frontline fighter with capable of some support with spells. I want stop being a niche frame because it keeps him from being great. I want give him what he needs to shine from the rest of the warframes. And no, Renewal is NOT good enough to make him shine. He needs a lot more if he wants to match up to any of the other frequently used frames. Here is my rework of Oberon.

Stats

Armour increased from 150 to 300. If he is to be on the frontlines, this will be the first step and it allows him to utilize Rage better.

Passive - Retribution: Yes, you know that mod? Then this passive is kind of like that. Melee hits from enemies have a 10% chance for Oberon to emit light particles stunning enemies in a 3 meter radius around Oberon for 4 seconds.

Smite

Current Smite is okay, no, not really, even it’s supposed saving grace in it’s scaling will not make it good. New players would expect something with far more oomph, but if the idea was to implement scaling, the finnicky mechanic that are the projectiles (being that they are affected by all power stats not counting efficiency) must go. But what will be left? Not much so I suggest:

Completely Reworked

·         Oberon conjures a mace of hallowed light while charging to a target up to 6 meters away dealing up to 250 damage in a 3 meter radius, bursting the mace. Enemies in the inner radius of 1.5 meters take full damage split evenly between Impact and Radiation and are ragdolled and enemies on the outer radius are dealt only the radiation damage portion and knocked down.

·         Is melee: 200% Critical Damage Multiplier, 5% Critical Chance. Scales and adds to Melee Combo Counter.

·         Has brief invulnerability frames.

·         Does not have innate combo multiplier like Rhino Charge or Landslide.

·         Augment: Blinding Smite – Additional Blinds enemies in a 10 meter radius from the impact

This gives Oberon a bit of mobility, brief invulnerability, more reliable (not necessarily better) CC, and has very good scaling with Melee Combo Counter giving him the means to be a strong frontline fighter.

Hallowed Ground

This power is supposedly the crux of his kit yet it falls so short of many things to even justify its energy cost. You don’t use it for damage, and it’s not useable as a zone of control as radiation procs are not able to reliably impede enemies in any real way, and covers an area of an incomplete shape without dedicating an addition mod slot to range, and even if status effects won’t kill you, guns and claws will. The power is supposed to create a zone where Oberon and his allies are supposed to thrive in but it doesn’t, not even close. I suggest:

·         Oberon conjures a full circle with a radius of up to 20 meters where it’s centre is half the radius from Oberon in the direction it is casted in.

·         Circle initially deals a burst of radiation damage, stunning all enemies in it for 5 seconds, and lingers for up to 25 seconds dealing smaller radiation damage per tick.

·         Allies on Hallowed Ground have proc immunity, up to additional 50% power strength, and up to 25% (50% cap) damage resistance. Said bonuses linger for a short duration when not on Hallowed Ground and are refreshed on re-entry.

Allies now actually have a reason to stay in Hallowed Ground unlike before they may jump in and out only to remove a few procs they’ve picked up.

Renewal

This power is what kept Oberon relevant despite his otherwise mediocrity. While it’s good as it is, I suggest:

Removing toggle in favour of single cast. Why?

1.    Toggle drains Oberon’s energy dry, he must dedicate his energy primarily on Renewal to remain effective at all. Additional targets further increase drain.

2.    Lasts only as long a Oberon has energy. Too many Energy Leech/Parasitic/Distruptor Eximi nearby? Goodbye Renewal for the entire squad. A nullifier shield skimmed you? Again, entire squad loses Renewal.

3.    Single cast costs energy once. Simply burst heal on contact and grants health regeneration buff. If you get caught under any of the above scenarios? At least, your entire squad would not lose benefits of Renewal.

Replace Bleed out Timer extension and instead refresh all buffs targeted allies may have. I think that’ll be pretty cool since it IS called Renewal.

Reckoning

It serves as a nuke for low-level missions. An emergency button in high-level missions. Spawns health globes on kill. There’s just too many things wrong with this. It tries to be Frost’s avalanche in damage and function but is only able to accomplish those things with half the effectiveness. I suggest:

·         Remove all synergies from it because not only are the synergies ineffective they are not worth setting up to utilize.

·         Remove health globe drop feature.

·         Instead enemies affected by Reckoning are debuffed for up to 20% reduced damage reduction after armour and buffs (looking at you Ancient Healer) capping at maybe 50%.

This way Oberon’s effectiveness does not overlap with armour stripping mechancis and each one is situationally better than the other.

 

Feel free to criticize my thoughts on Oberon and my suggestions to improve him because I want Oberon to be the best he could be. No more mediocrity, not taking over another frame’s strengths, just Oberon.

[n_0x]

6 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Every time someone proposes a full rework I die a bit inside.

Like do you people really think they are going to full on rework just after he was revamped? Do you really think that they are going to do a fullscale rework just before his prime release? Really people? Really? The time to ask was BEFORE they started the process of actually reworking him.

That said, #SmiteForEnergyGain2017

And to be fair we've asked for his rework for almost a year now. We asked WAY BEFORE the process was even a thought. Don't believe me? Remeber today's date and google " Oberon rework 2016" and take note of the dates the reddit and forum posts went up for the subject. 

[-Onyx-Phalian]

11 minutes ago, n_0x said:

And to be fair we've asked for his rework for almost a year now. We asked WAY BEFORE the process was even a thought. Don't believe me? Remeber today's date and google " Oberon rework 2016" and take note of the dates the reddit and forum posts went up for the subject. 

This is correct. Oberon, Limbo, and Hydroid were kind of known as the "Big 3" as in "Big Problems". Ever since we discovered DE were considering reworking older frames, many people have been trying to get DE to work on the Big 3. So we've been trying to get DE's attention for a year...and they spend less than 2 weeks working on it. Can you see why that may be problematic? 

[n_0x]

1 minute ago, Phalian said:

This is correct. Oberon, Limbo, and Hydroid were kind of known as the "Big 3" as in "Big Problems". Ever since we discovered DE were considering reworking older frames, many people have been trying to get DE to work on the Big 3. So we've been trying to get DE's attention for a year...and they spend less than 2 weeks working on it. Can you see why that may be problematic? 

And even bigger point Limbo at least got treated well. They took their time with Limbo and didn't show anything off or release anything until it was ready. Oberon was given at best a stale cookie and told "now stop bothering us"

[(PSN)EmilsTekcor]

So Oberon has a cool rework, but there have been a bunch of people complaining that he doesn't work as well as he should so here is my concept for a rework.

Smite: let it deal damage as a percentage of the opponents effective health. 

Also as a fun little possible, the percentage of damage done could be based around oberons damage reduction from his armor.

Also more range.

Hallowed ground: wouldn't it be cool if it was a cricle that centered with oberon?

Renew: it's cool

 

[Music4Therapy]

Very well aware of how long reworks have been being proposed, but you'd think that the absolute worst time to propose a full rework was right after he was given a rework. Thats what Steve meant by "give an inch and they ask for a mile"

Asking for a full rework at this point in time is literally the worst thing you can do. I've seen like 10 different people ask for an exalted mace in the last week. Like, its not going to happen. The best we can do is say "this is whats wrong with the current kit" and be done with it and hope DE listens. Because this kit is what we have to work with and writing a massive wall of text is just going to create more bs that DE has to go through.

EDIT:

For every solid idea proposed in this thread there are like 10 people that request an exalted mace or for his hallowed ground to become an aura. Its not going to happen and you're just cluttering the thread with crap.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Epitheton]

1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

Very well aware of how long reworks have been being proposed, but you'd think that the absolute worst time to propose a full rework was right after he was given a rework. Thats what Steve meant by "give an inch and they ask for a mile"

Asking for a full rework at this point in time is literally the worst thing you can do. I've seen like 10 different people ask for an exalted mace in the last week. Like, its not going to happen. The best we can do is say "this is whats wrong with the current kit" and be done with it and hope DE listens. Because this kit is what we have to work with and writing a massive wall of text is just going to create more bs that DE has to go through.

I'm not asking for a full rework. I've literally only rework Smite. Did you even read? It's not an Exalted weapon. As for the rest of his kit I've mostly made strong additions to make them less garbage to use. Oberon does jack against level 100+ Grineers with his kit. Yesterday's sortie 3? Our team survived because we had a Frost and 2 Titanias to keep them away. Oberon's rework did nothing to resolve his scaling or uselessness compare to other frames.

[-Onyx-Phalian]

4 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Very well aware of how long reworks have been being proposed, but you'd think that the absolute worst time to propose a full rework was right after he was given a rework. Thats what Steve meant by "give an inch and they ask for a mile"

Asking for a full rework at this point in time is literally the worst thing you can do. I've seen like 10 different people ask for an exalted mace in the last week. Like, its not going to happen. The best we can do is say "this is whats wrong with the current kit" and be done with it and hope DE listens. Because this kit is what we have to work with and writing a massive wall of text is just going to create more bs that DE has to go through.

That is why most of the reworks proposed here have been focused at tweaking the numbers and mechanics of already existing abilities. Though i would admit, I would love Hallowed Ground to have some energy grass and or plants to make it more visible and more nature based. Seriously, you NEED to use a bright energy color or you can't see Hallowed Ground. Though as I have stated before, it is not my idea, but one proposed by Rob from AGayGuyPlays and I am just a REALLY big fan of that idea. 

[Music4Therapy]

11 minutes ago, Epitheton said:

I'm not asking for a full rework. I've literally only rework Smite. Did you even read? It's not an Exalted weapon. As for the rest of his kit I've mostly made strong additions to make them less garbage to use. Oberon does jack against level 100+ Grineers with his kit. Yesterday's sortie 3? Our team survived because we had a Frost and 2 Titanias to keep them away. Oberon's rework did nothing to resolve his scaling or uselessness compare to other frames.

Do you honestly believe that they are going to rework a rework after it was just reworked? It takes so much time to do these things. They have to create the animations, have artists make the design, coding, balancing with the rest of his kit, etc... Remember how long they were working on Ash's rework? And all they p much did was allow your Smoke Screen to be cast in mid air and change how his Bladestorm worked? Yeah, this stuff takes time. Notice how in this "rework" they didn't make any animation changes or anything, it was just numerical and created (forced) synergies between the abilities that already existed.

And if you are struggling to survive or get kills in sorties then that is definitely without a doubt a l2p issue.

 

EDIT:

btw, yes I did read. You basically are trying to turn Oberon into Atlas but with a Mace. In your words, "Completely Reworked"

Quote

Completely Reworked

·         Oberon conjures a mace of hallowed light while charging to a target up to 6 meters away dealing up to 250 damage in a 3 meter radius, bursting the mace. Enemies in the inner radius of 1.5 meters take full damage split evenly between Impact and Radiation and are ragdolled and enemies on the outer radius are dealt only the radiation damage portion and knocked down.

·         Is melee: 200% Critical Damage Multiplier, 5% Critical Chance. Scales and adds to Melee Combo Counter.

·         Has brief invulnerability frames.

·         Does not have innate combo multiplier like Rhino Charge or Landslide.

·         Augment: Blinding Smite – Additional Blinds enemies in a 10 meter radius from the impact

This gives Oberon a bit of mobility, brief invulnerability, more reliable (not necessarily better) CC, and has very good scaling with Melee Combo Counter giving him the means to be a strong frontline fighter.

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Music4Therapy
cleaned it up

[Epitheton]

1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

Do you honestly in your wildest dreams believe that they are going to rework a rework after it was just reworked? lol. "its only 1 ability" xD It takes so much time to do these things. They have to create the animations, have artists make the design, coding, balancing with the rest of his kit, etc... Remember how long they were working on Ash's rework? And all they p much did was allow your Smoke Screen to be cast in mid air and change how his Bladestorm worked? Yeah, this stuff takes time. Notice how in this "rework" they didn't make any animation changes or anything, it was just just numerical and creating (forcing) synergies between the abilities that already existed.

And if you are struggling to survive or get kills in sorties then that is definitely without a doubt a l2p issue.

I do really wonder if you ever even wanted Oberon to be good in the first place with that kind of attitude. I get that you're not optimistic about Oberon getting real work on him, but that doesn't mean you get to shut down ideas. Isn't this megathread a place for ideas, a place where we can aggregate all our ideas to make Oberon a real relevant frame outside a niche power? If you think all Oberon needs is energy to be sufficient I'd argue you're dead wrong. He needs much, much more. By the way, my Smite rework is based a hammer. Ever though of recycling cycles of hammer stances into it? Probably not.

And for your information, the only thing my Oberon ever did in that sorties is be carrying by my Naramon. Oberon isn't worth anything in his current state.

[Epitheton]

8 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Do you honestly believe that they are going to rework a rework after it was just reworked? It takes so much time to do these things. They have to create the animations, have artists make the design, coding, balancing with the rest of his kit, etc... Remember how long they were working on Ash's rework? And all they p much did was allow your Smoke Screen to be cast in mid air and change how his Bladestorm worked? Yeah, this stuff takes time. Notice how in this "rework" they didn't make any animation changes or anything, it was just numerical and created (forced) synergies between the abilities that already existed.

And if you are struggling to survive or get kills in sorties then that is definitely without a doubt a l2p issue.

 

EDIT:

btw, yes I did read. You basically are trying to turn Oberon into Atlas but with a Mace. In your words, "Completely Reworked"

 

I added real scaling to him without all the enemy scaling nonsense. I doubt anyone would be fine with powers scaling directly off enemy stats like Limbo's 4.

[-Onyx-Phalian]

4 minutes ago, Epitheton said:

I added real scaling to him without all the enemy scaling nonsense. I doubt anyone would be fine with powers scaling directly off enemy stats like Limbo's 4.

Well even if Limbo's new 4 scaling may not clear rooms, it can pack a punch. That is what we want from scaling abilities. 

[Archwizard]

To sum up my thoughts on Oberon post-rework:

Smite is passable now, Renewal is excellent.
Renewal could still use a lower upkeep cost for allies (or only consume energy for every Tenno affected), but overall, the armor buff and unlimited duration are just what it needed.

Hallowed Ground and Reckoning are bland.
The interaction added to Hallowed Ground with Reckoning and Renewal seem like excuses to keep Hallowed Ground in the kit, and are big contributors to why his kit is so expensive; he could just as easily do with those effects as part of the base abilities, because you only need to stand in Hallowed Ground for about a second to benefit from it.
Reckoning, meanwhile, tries to do everything - CC, deal damage, increase damage, heal - but because it tries to cram different 7 functions into one button, it really doesn't do any of those well, and forces you to read an actual manual for Oberon to know what it's good for.
You have to keep in mind that the effective cost of combining Hallowed Ground and Reckoning is higher than most abilities, but all he gets for his trouble is a minor damage buff.

The passive is awful. It doesn't contribute anything to his kit, it's just tacked on. It's not thematic to his Paladin nature, it just forces a Druidic ability into the kit when he has no others in his kit to expand on it. It would be a great passive for a Warframe who focused on using and buffing pets, but Oberon doesn't.

His big issue right now is that he consumes a lot of energy. If his kit is now based on the forced interaction between his abilities, then giving him a way to replenish it (like innate Rage passive and a base armor buff, or a passive that restores energy on inflicting a proc), and maybe an increased energy pool, would go along way. He could also use a lower upkeep cost for Renewal. Personally, I would say give him some way to get at the armor buff/debuff without combining abilities, while maximizing the effect from combining them (like having Hallowed Ground provide armor while you stand in it as it did before, but allowing it to jump over to Renewal when it's active as now; or have Hallowed Ground leech armor from enemies over time while Reckoning accelerates the effect).

I would like to take a moment to point out that the rework added very little "synergy" to his kit.
Synergy was having Renewal heal while Hallowed Ground mitigated damage, thereby making the healing more efficient. Synergy was having Reckoning immobilize enemies inside of Hallowed Ground so they'd take in that sweet, sweet damage. Synergy is two effects overlapping to cover weaknesses of either. It's something that Loki is very good at.
What Oberon got is a forced dependence between abilities, which is comparable to on-disc DLC: you're capable of all of these effects, but you need to spend more and more energy to actually get at them.

I don't care about making him fit a specific role and making him one of The Top Three in that sphere; a "Jack of All Trades" is a reasonable archetype so long as the culmination of his various branches puts him on par with other frames. A Paladin just buffs group survivability and deals his own damage doing so, and so long as he's competent at those tasks, Oberon is the closest he's ever been to that ideal. I just care about his kit being well-designed and functional, because right now it's a Gordian's knot of effects loosely tossed together like some kind of ability salad. Having specific abilities fulfill specific niches would go a long way - like turning Reckoning into a pure CC with incidental damage, leaving Renewal as his pure heal and Smite as his pure damage.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Archwizard

[Music4Therapy]

27 minutes ago, Epitheton said:

I do really wonder if you ever even wanted Oberon to be good in the first place with that kind of attitude.

-snip-

And for your information, the only thing my Oberon ever did in that sorties is be carrying by my Naramon. Oberon isn't worth anything in his current state.

I do want him to be great, but I'm also a realist. I also believe that his kit is really close to being great, I've been able to take him into high tier missions and deep into solo survivals. Thats why I think you and people like you proposing full on reworks is beyond moronic and bewilders me. If you dislike the frame so much that you are requesting a full on rework at this stage because "he is worth nothing in his current state", then the best thing you can do is leave so that the people that do think he is worth something and have been able to have success with him and can talk like adults can make actual progress.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Music4Therapy]

5 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

What Oberon got is a forced dependence between abilities

So true.
Their idea of synergy =/= actual synergy

Its so weird because the last 2 frames and the latest rework, Limbo/Octavia/Nidus were all successes in that regard.