Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Ceadeus]

55 minutes ago, crazyN00b said:

So you're saying that a single target ability is better CC than AoE knockdown with 4 seconds blindness and12 seconds confusion (rad proc)?

Yes.  Considering that the radiation proc doesn't even do its job half the time and enemies still just shoot you anyway, even if there are other, closer targets.

[Ceadeus]

49 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Yes, there is at least one Warframe outperforming Oberon in a single role, but what if you need Oberon to take several roles at once?

If you want to have a healer? Sure, take Trinity,

If you want a healer and a CCer? Good luck with Trinity. Sure, you have to compromise when healing, but Oberon brings other stuff to the table to make up for it considering his COMPLETE kit.

As I said, Trinity offers a lot more though.  Her CC range is much farther and doesn't rely on procs that are just as likely to do nothing while she's also helping her teammates in the process by bringing them back up to full energy.

[Hemmo67]

2 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

Yes.  Considering that the radiation proc doesn't even do its job half the time and enemies still just shoot you anyway, even if there are other, closer targets.

u forgot forced knockdown

and considering a certain mod we got recently for obex..

[Ceadeus]

44 minutes ago, Varacal said:

jack of all trades, master of none. im sure you've heard of that quote

Except that implies he's at least good at them.  Maybe not the best, but worth enough to use.  His damage is crap, his CC is negligible because DE wants to shove the radiation procs all over him (despite radiation having absolutely nothing to do with his theme) and radiation simply isn't good enough to build powers around and justify cutting all of his other stats for it.  Even his buffing is completely reliant on your team sitting in one spot and happening to be on the circle when you decide to cast it, otherwise it does nothing for your teammates.

[Ceadeus]

Just now, Hemmo67 said:

u forgot forced knockdown

and considering a certain mod we got recently for obex..

So why would I take Oberon over a Valkyr who can knockdown enemies from just as far and much more efficiently?

[Hemmo67]

Just now, InsanityKey said:

So why would I take Oberon over a Valkyr who can knockdown enemies from just as far and much more efficiently?

because oberon can heal his team valkyr cannot

[Ceadeus]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)theelix said:

You're not understanding the point of Oberon, plainly and simply. 

And I'm not in defense of his kit. It's pretty annoying to me, in fact. But as a whole, you're missing the point of the frame by making direct comparisons to a healer who doesn't do close to the same thing that Oberon actually does. 

But he doesn't do hardly anything is my point.  Every ability he has is underwhelming because DE is trying to make radiation the focus of his kit for god knows what reason when radiation has absolutely nothing to do with his theme as a paladin.  It's destroying his ability to get anything actually unique and useful.

[Ceadeus]

28 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

1- 1 enemy at a time.

2- How is a 75% damage reduction "literal invincibility" ?

3- 1 enemy at a time.

Oberon can provide a mass-control Trinity can't. Oberon can deal big-enough damage - but maybe not with his mass-control spell, try another one. Oberon can tank a lot.

The part about mass control might be true if his kit didn't glitch out all the time, not properly locking down enemies during the animation and letting them come up and smack you and your teammates, and since he can't do much damage at all, they can do it pretty much without any consequence because you'll go down a lot faster than they will.  As far as his tanking goes, I disagree.  From what I've seen Oberon does not "tank".  You can not run into a group of enemies and expect to survive easily.  Oberon has passive heals that allow him to recover from the damage you take if you play him carefully.  His mechanic is similar to taking cover in an FPS once your screen starts flashing red.  You can't tank, you just aren't guaranteed to die after you take enough damage like frames without healing are.

[Hopakkiin]

2 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

  You can't tank, you just aren't guaranteed to die after you take enough damage like frames without healing are.

Well if you are good, you can. 

[Walkampf]

12 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

As I said, Trinity offers a lot more though.  Her CC range is much farther and doesn't rely on procs that are just as likely to do nothing while she's also helping her teammates in the process by bringing them back up to full energy.

No, she does NOT offer more, that's the whole point of my comment.

She is better at what she offers, but Oberon offers MORE.

You are missing or maybe activly ignoring my entire point in your banter...

[Ceadeus]

17 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

I like how you take one frame and compare it to Oberon...... Also, trinity doesn't have CC capabilities in any sense. Crowd controlling one enemy does not count as a CC ability, and Oberon isn't supposed to do damage because he is a CC and healer frame, not a damage dealer. Radiation is one of the best things to have for crowd control, and since I run natural Talent, his reckoning doesn't take long to cast. (I know Xbox doesn't have the rework yet, but the rework definitely made him better from what I have seen, and he is currently really solid.) 

1 target is still CC, maybe not for a mob of enemies, but it can still be used to take more dangerous enemies out of the fight.  Except Oberon's CC sucks, radiation is not good as it currently functions in the game.  Radiation ONLY works if there are multiple enemies, and even when there are, there's a good chance they'll just ignore each other and attack you anyway.  Any other proc that isn't just a damage proc is better.  Fire and electricity will completely remove an enemy from the fight for their duration, ice will drastically slow them and their fire (hence why arctic eximus suck) even blast will knock them down.  And his heals are really only good if you can get yourself out of the line of fire anyway, otherwise they'll quickly be overwhelmed.

[Zeclem]

1 hour ago, InsanityKey said:

Most people's claim for the Oberon rework being good enough is that he serves multiple roles.  To that, I say bullS#&$.  Not that he doesn't serve multiple roles, but he's still not good enough at any of them to consider these changes worth the time it took for him to get them.  I say this, because after revisiting my EV Trinity build (Meaning only really built for range and efficiency) I can do better, more responsive heals, better CC since I can stunlock any target of my choosing till it's dead, provide literal invincibility to my teammates, AND do MORE damage with spam-cast abilities that reach as far as I can see than Oberon can do with his "Ultimate" that has a very long cast, S#&$e range, and S#&$e damage.

To give some perspective, Oberon's Reckoning does something like 5000 damage when modded for MAXIMUM possible power strength, meaning 299%.  One cast of my EV does ~3000 damage, restores well over the energy took to cast it (as well as energy to my teammates).  So what exactly makes Oberon a good choice in any scenario at all?

I'm not saying he's unusable, but there is no situation where he is the better frame to take for any role.

you wont be giving immunity to anyone with an ev build as trin. oberon gives far better buffs than an ev trin right now, has much better cc and utility too. and your numbers are waaaaay off. and thats me being generous

you know what? F*** being generous. this kind of stupid crap needs to leave this planet. oberon has strong cc and now proper support and utility for his team and for having all those at once he is simply unmatched in multitasking as a frame. sure he still isnt great in any of them, but hes more than decent while every other multipurpose frame needs to make sacrifices in their kit. oberon doesnt. sorry not every frame is on pre-nerf limbo level.

[Ceadeus]

18 minutes ago, Hopakkiin said:

Oberon is a good paladin. His abilities are balanced, the numbers aren't off. You don't have to play him, if you don't like him.
 

The only thing "paladin" about him is he has a single healing ability.  And the thing is, I do like him, he's still my most played frame from back when he could actually compete.  That's why it bothers me so much that compared to every other frame's rework, Oberon has taken the biggest $&*^ing DE could manage and moved on.  Radiation does not make a paladin.  DE was simply being lazy and wanted to fill their last "elemental based frame" slot so they shoved radiation on him and it's hurting his ability to get a good, sensible kit instead of "Neutered every stat but you get radiation procs all over"

[Ceadeus]

14 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

because oberon can heal his team valkyr cannot

But Valkyr can shred every enemy that would attack my team in a fraction of the time it would take Oberon to heal them.  If Oberon still had infinite range I might give that to you, but his heal range is actually fairly short anymore.

[Hemmo67]

Just now, InsanityKey said:

But Valkyr can shred every enemy that would attack my team in a fraction of the time it would take Oberon to heal them.  If Oberon still had infinite range I might give that to you, but his heal range is actually fairly short anymore.

shredding enemies that keep spawning from all sides is quite impossible to maintain

oberon just needs to be in same room and if u are smart you do not run ahead of your team

[p3z1]

1 hour ago, InsanityKey said:

because after revisiting my EV Trinity build

Sorry, but I stopped here. Rule of thumb, never compare meta to non-meta (or popular vs unpopular), because Trintiy is in a better state than Oberon right now.

Well of life is rarely used. Personally for CC. That's 1 enemy locked down.
Energy vampire gives energy, deals decent damage, and locks another enemy down.
Link just makes her tankier.
Blessing is a dedicated heal skill/panic button.
Trinity's passive shows her role, heal/tank.

Let's go to oberon now.
1 sucks against main target, but deals SCALING damage to MULTIPLE targets, while dealing PUNCTURE procs. Tell me if trinity can do that to MULTIPLE TARGETS.
2 is kinda useless on it's own. I run a max range build, so not much rad procs there. Still, a rad proc means less guns on you.
3 makes you (and allies) tanker (regen + armor). Now, this is the main difference. Oberon does health regen, trinity heals a flat amount. I can agree that a flat heal is better. In the long run though, regens would probably be better, just because you don't need to spam it. Let's not forget the augment for this mod (crap CD, but helps).
4 just CCs a lot. Ignoring damage entirely here. With good range, you can have lots of ground covered with hallowed ground.
Passive is not thematic IMO, but regen on companions is fine. He takes the role of healer/tank/damage dealer.

Damage comparison:
- Trinity does % damage to ONE enemy, and reflects damage on up to 3 enemies.
- Oberon does % damage to 5 enemies (average).
- Oberon clearly wins.

CC comparison:
- Trinity can lock down up to 2 enemies.
- Oberon can lock down an ENTIRE ROOM. Oberon also deals radiation procs and puncture procs, nerfing enemies more. Buggy yes. Did I forget to mention that Oberon can knockdown a LOT of targets with 1 and 4?
- Situational. Trinity can lock down 2 priority targets, but Oberon can lock down an entire room. Trinity selects targets, Oberon doesn't. Since this is a mob game, I'm calling Oberon the winner.

Tankiness:
- 75% DR on trinity + Blessing DR
- Armor-dependence + regen on Oberon.
- Trinity flat-out wins.

Healing:
- Trinity can heal from anywhere, instantly. EV gives energy.
- Oberon can heal anywhere, albeit regen. Augmented heal can revive. I can use energy plates to give energy to allies.
- Depends on needs really. Sometimes you need full heal, sometimes regen.

Tell me, who wins the comparison contest? I see 2 vs 2 on Oberon vs Trinity.

[Ceadeus]

2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

you wont be giving immunity to anyone with an ev build as trin. oberon gives far better buffs than an ev trin right now, has much better cc and utility too. and your numbers are waaaaay off. and thats me being generous

you know what? F*** being generous. this kind of stupid crap needs to leave this planet. oberon has strong cc and now proper support and utility for his team and for having all those at once he is simply unmatched in multitasking as a frame. sure he still isnt great in any of them, but hes more than decent while every other multipurpose frame needs to make sacrifices in their kit. oberon doesnt. sorry not every frame is on pre-nerf limbo level.

Except he really doesn't.  A.  You have to be standing on the disc whenever Oberon randomly decides to cast his Renewal or you get nothing B.  Renewal's range isn't even that far so unless you're all huddled together in a tight ball you won't be getting heals most of the time anyway.  And I never said he was on per-nerf Limbo level.  I'm simply saying he's not good enough to really merit taking.  Anything he can do another frame could do better, even if it's via a different method.  I personally really like Oberon, I've always liked him, he's still my most played frame from back in the day.  But as things have gone on he's just fallen off, and I'm not saying this rework is "bad" for him but that it's not nearly enough.  Every other frame that got a rework made people actually want to play that frame again and it was enjoyable, Oberon got a few QOL tweaks and then they pushed him on his way.  The Oberon "rework" could have just as easily been in any random patch notes in the "Changes" section.  I'm not mad about the changes, I'm mad that this means Oberon's not gonna get touched for however long again and he was barely improved.

[Ceadeus]

3 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

shredding enemies that keep spawning from all sides is quite impossible to maintain

oberon just needs to be in same room and if u are smart you do not run ahead of your team

Not really, I've yet to find a level of enemy that I couldn't one-shot with a single slide attack on my Valkyr's Hysteria.

[Hemmo67]

Just now, InsanityKey said:

Not really, I've yet to find a level of enemy that I couldn't one-shot with a single slide attack on my Valkyr's Hysteria.

what i mean is that u cannot be fast enough to kill all enemies right as they spawn

[45neo]

1 hour ago, crazyN00b said:

So you're saying that a single target ability is better CC than AoE knockdown with 4 seconds blindness and12 seconds confusion (rad proc)?

seems so? really I don't get it either....

[Ceadeus]

2 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

Sorry, but I stopped here. Rule of thumb, never compare meta to non-meta (or popular vs unpopular), because Trintiy is in a better state than Oberon right now.

Well of life is rarely used. Personally for CC. That's 1 enemy locked down.
Energy vampire gives energy, deals decent damage, and locks another enemy down.
Link just makes her tankier.
Blessing is a dedicated heal skill/panic button.
Trinity's passive shows her role, heal/tank.

Let's go to oberon now.
1 sucks against main target, but deals SCALING damage to MULTIPLE targets, while dealing PUNCTURE procs. Tell me if trinity can do that to MULTIPLE TARGETS.
2 is kinda useless on it's own. I run a max range build, so not much rad procs there. Still, a rad proc means less guns on you.
3 makes you (and allies) tanker (regen + armor). Now, this is the main difference. Oberon does health regen, trinity heals a flat amount. I can agree that a flat heal is better. In the long run though, regens would probably be better, just because you don't need to spam it. Let's not forget the augment for this mod (crap CD, but helps).
4 just CCs a lot. Ignoring damage entirely here. With good range, you can have lots of ground covered with hallowed ground.
Passive is not thematic IMO, but regen on companions is fine. He takes the role of healer/tank/damage dealer.

Damage comparison:
- Trinity does % damage to ONE enemy, and reflects damage on up to 3 enemies.
- Oberon does % damage to 5 enemies (average).
- Oberon clearly wins.

CC comparison:
- Trinity can lock down up to 2 enemies.
- Oberon can lock down an ENTIRE ROOM. Oberon also deals radiation procs and puncture procs, nerfing enemies more. Buggy yes. Did I forget to mention that Oberon can knockdown a LOT of targets with 1 and 4?
- Situational. Trinity can lock down 2 priority targets, but Oberon can lock down an entire room. Trinity selects targets, Oberon doesn't. Since this is a mob game, I'm calling Oberon the winner.

Tankiness:
- 75% DR on trinity + Blessing DR
- Armor-dependence + regen on Oberon.
- Trinity flat-out wins.

Healing:
- Trinity can heal from anywhere, instantly. EV gives energy.
- Oberon can heal anywhere, albeit regen. Augmented heal can revive. I can use energy plates to give energy to allies.
- Depends on needs really. Sometimes you need full heal, sometimes regen.

Tell me, who wins the comparison contest? I see 2 vs 2 on Oberon vs Trinity.

Well, there's also the fact that we can either compare these 2 by themselves or in a hypothetical team.  Solo, I would give the damage category to Trin, because of the fact that she replenishes all the resources she's consuming to do that damage while also keeping herself alive, where Oberon does minimal damage, only a few seconds of CC, and is typically VERY power hungry meaning he'll quickly get overwhelmed.  If we compare them in a team, then I give the CC category to Trin, because by CC'ing enemies with EV or WoL, you'd be giving your teammates the means to kill off the enemies for you without a problem, where Oberon's CC really only delays things for a little bit, save for the one enemy you might be able to pull off a finisher on before they're recovered.

[Ceadeus]

6 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

what i mean is that u cannot be fast enough to kill all enemies right as they spawn

No, but you also can't heal a teammate fast enough with Oberon to negate the damage if they're actively under fire.  So that implies there's a pause for them to heal, and if there's a pause to heal, that gives Valkyr time to make up ground and be just as effective at clearing out the threats.

[Ceadeus]

25 minutes ago, Hopakkiin said:

Well if you are good, you can. 

Well... no, that's not tanking then.  Tanking isn't a "skill" it's just your ability to take a lot of damage and still be okay enough to safely keep fighting.  So unless you consider putting more armor/health/shield increasing mods on being "good" then...

[45neo]

8 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

 

Damage comparison:
- Trinity does % damage to ONE enemy, and reflects damage on up to 3 enemies.
- Oberon does % damage to 5 enemies (average).
- Oberon clearly wins.

(first may i add that ironically a low duration trin build actually has a ton of scaling dps that WILL surpass the damage scaling of smite in the late game)

Tell me, who wins the comparison contest? I see 2 vs 2 on Oberon vs Trinity.

Also in terms of healing yes sometimes you need healing over time and revives are nice but free energy INSTANT healing and a damage reduction buff are not just situational. In other words 9 out of 10 instances the instant full healing and damage reduction will be better than healing over time and the free energy is useful in all circumstances. Meanwhile Oberon's renewal is useful mostly in mid  tier missions where periodic instant healing + damage reduction accomplish the same effect. Not to mention that in it's current state renewal drains A TON of energy when you have a lot of  allies causes the ability to last for only about 2 seconds.... so much for a continuous heal....

 

[Hopakkiin]

Just now, InsanityKey said:

Well... no, that's not tanking then.  Tanking isn't a "skill" it's just your ability to take a lot of damage and still be okay enough to safely keep fighting.  So unless you consider putting more armor/health/shield increasing mods on being "good" then...

yes. That's how it works. How else are you going to soak up more damage?