Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Ive been playing oberon nonstop since update...not a single person has waypointed me to heal them. I give my heals freely. If i notice a few guys are in the same place...i pop hallowed ground then renewal...takes a couple secs...not a big deal.

 

This forced synergy isnt forced... it's optional.

 

Unlike limbo who "has" to either banish or cataclysm an enemy for stasis to work....

Or Saryn who "has" to use spores if her 4 is to kill anything....

 

Or Nidus "has" to use his one initially to build mutation stacks....

Hallowed ground and renewal both work apart or together.

 

 

 

 

 

[robbybe01234]

5 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

So there are apparently a lot of new people as well as several old that are pleased with Oberon as he currently sits. I am not one of these people. I am also perplexed at the rather... personal nature of what looks like how many of these people speak to those that want something of a tuneup alongside his prime. It may just be me, but I'm getting a very 'I am attacking you for holding the view that Oberon is anything less than perfect and will ridicule you as a crybaby and whiner that doesn't know how to game.' See also the constant 'oh well that must mean you exclusively conclave if you're a complainer,' or 'your'e whining because you don't have him modded right,' or any of a number of ways I've seen the goal posts moved.

This is not helping. All it leads is to all of us on every side being angry at each other. We're better than this. All of us.

That said there are several names I cringe whenever i see in this thread. A case of 'hooboy this's gonna be a rough one.' I hate that, because I halfway expect when people see my name there's that same response. 'Oh crap it's That Guy.'

My perspective is this.  Did he recently receive a scheduled update?  Yes.  Is he broken?  No.  Does he work in the parts of the game where you can acquire the mats you need to craft stuff?  Yes.  So what's next?  Making it better.  Which is what you can say about every single other frame in the game.  You hold to the point that if just a "bit" more were done you'd be fine with it.  You may or may not be, I'll never know.  Let's say they did change that little bit because you wanted it done.  Now that's created a precedent where we can expect DE to start catering to every nitpick or small/large improvement that anyone would want in even the top, top frames. You'd be all set, but what about the guy that still has a bit of a problem with him?  

You know, I play Nidus sometimes, and I find I compete for kills with other players, making it hard to build up stacks.  DE should adjust his 1 to generate twice as many stacks per hit to compensate and also buff the range on it a bit as I don't like taking up a spot on his loadout for stretch.  Now, some people are gonna write " well this example isn't at all comparable to how I want renewal to use less energy or pair the range of HG to Reckoning".  They are comparable in that they are both examples of things that are objectively better but aren't needed to allow the frame to function and aren't needed to be done out of whatever schedule DE has for changes. 

That's my take on this whole oberon thing.  I do like the changes you listed, but I'm the type of person that can't wait up for that for any frame, too many choices and too much fun to be had.

[tnccs215]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Ive been playing oberon nonstop since update...not a single person has waypointed me to heal them. I give my heals freely. If i notice a few guys are in the same place...i pop hallowed ground then renewal...takes a couple secs...not a big deal.

 

This forced synergy isnt forced... it's optional.

 

Unlike limbo who "has" to either banish or cataclysm an enemy for stasis to work....

Or Saryn who "has" to use spores if her 4 is to kill anything....

 

Or Nidus "has" to use his one initially to build mutation stacks....

Hallowed ground and renewal both work apart or together.

 

So quit whining, sheesh.

 

 

 

I think you are confusing the dichotomy especially here.  It's not "forced"  vs "optional",  it is "forced" vs "natural". 

That is,  synergy is forced when two abilities are coded so that they get some form of bonus when used together.  Example: the whole Saryn kit. Or the armor bonus on Oberon. Or the armor reduction on Oberon.  Or the extra damage to irradiated enemies on Oberon. 

Synergy is natural when two abilities,  by their innate traits,  benefit each other. 

For example: Radial Disarm and Decoy allowing for localized area control. 

And,  frankly,  the major issue with Oberon is not that his synergy is forced,  but yes that his forced synergy was just slapped on for the sake of it,  when not putting it at all would have been better for everyone. 

Saryn is an amazing example of good forced synergy,  because all of her abilities,  in particular her first 3, were designed with that synergy in mind.  Her whole kit and game play style revolve around it,  and above all,  it feels fun and rewarding. 

Oberon?  Please. 

DE:"So,  we wanted to introduce Synergy in Oberon,  so now you have to stand in hallowed ground if you want a bit more survivability.  This also applies for your allies,  so you all need to stand on a ridiculously small area to ensure all of you get the armor buff"

People:"Well that seems unnecessarily convoluted.  Why not just give the armor buff with Renewal and... "

DE:"SYNERGYYYYYYYY" 

It is simply ridiculous.  It simply is.  Renewal has mechanics that both work actively against full squads,  Smite effectively has negative scaling in terms of individual orb damage,  and his whole kit is still redundant beyond measure.  Oberon literally has three different ways of dealing Radiation procs -  ways that are generally,  if not always,  used in tandem,  making them inherently (and pointlessly)  redundant.  Reckoning is still a sub-par ability that favors spamming and makes Smite borderline irrelevant,  just now it has even more functionalities slaped on with little care for congruence. 

Oberon might have gotten better, but only Renewal had noticeable changes - -  and that came at the expense of a much,  much bigger average energy consumption that was,  itself,  only partially fixed with an increase of his energy pool.  Why not a similar mechanic to Saryn's energy return on spore burst?  Why not innate rage as a passive,  as it was repeatedly proposed as a better passive than his current one? 

If you are happy with his current state,  great for you.  Go play with him. Have fun. In the meanwhile,  some of us don't mistake better for good,  good for good enough,  and good enough for perfect. We are not satisfied, and we are supporting why we aren't. 

Argue all you want that Oberon is good as he is,  but know when you are wrong, and above all,  don't pathetically defend apathy. 

 

[tnccs215]

14 minutes ago, robbybe01234 said:

My perspective is this.  Did he recently receive a scheduled update?  Yes.  Is he broken?  No.  Does he work in the parts of the game where you can acquire the mats you need to craft stuff?  Yes.  So what's next?  Making it better.  Which is what you can say about every single other frame in the game.  You hold to the point that if just a "bit" more were done you'd be fine with it.  You may or may not be, I'll never know.  Let's say they did change that little bit because you wanted it done.  Now that's created a precedent where we can expect DE to start catering to every nitpick or small/large improvement that anyone would want in even the top, top frames. You'd be all set, but what about the guy that still has a bit of a problem with him?  

You know, I play Nidus sometimes, and I find I compete for kills with other players, making it hard to build up stacks.  DE should adjust his 1 to generate twice as many stacks per hit to compensate and also buff the range on it a bit as I don't like taking up a spot on his loadout for stretch.  Now, some people are gonna write " well this example isn't at all comparable to how I want renewal to use less energy or pair the range of HG to Reckoning".  They are comparable in that they are both examples of things that are objectively better but aren't needed to allow the frame to function and aren't needed to be done out of whatever schedule DE has for changes. 

The problem,  is that some frames need "just a little bit" more to be perfect,  while others are orders of magnitude further away from said perfection. 

Nidus is a good frame.  He has a varied kit,  a unique aesthetic,  a particular playstyle,  and all of this while having extremely good scaling without being (too)  overpowered. 

Oberon....  Has a potentially infinite heal that becomes useless in the moment enemies start to one shoot you through the armor-- and a redundant kit based around radiation procs that,  while pleasant, aren't shockingly amazing. 

I truly understand why you made the comparison.  But the gap between the quality of their designs is simply too wide for this comparison to work. 

[BigPapiPimp]

I heard new Brobaron doesn't mesh well with Necros' shadows, do you think it would be better if his renewal affected companions and summons free of charge? I mean, his passive is pet based...

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

15 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

I lost respect for you with that remark. I have zero respect for anyone that treats constant discussion, showing exmaples, providing opinion the same as someone going 'WAAAAHHHH IT'S NOT FAAAAIIIIIR! I WANT IT ALLLLLL I WANT EVERYTHING!'

I am at this stage treating you as hostile and trolling, because the contents of your posts have shown disdain if not outright disgust at everyone in this thread. If you are happy with Oberon as is? Awesome! I think his current state is 'fine', but 'fine' can mean a lot of things and for me 'fine' here is ... it'll do. I guess. if it has to anyway.'

 

Or people that want DE to fix frames that do not need fixing. Oberon is awesome the way he is...imo he needs no fix. Yet some people want to force opinions on everyone else...rather than just accepting the way things are, and enjoying this superbly built frame in this superbly built game.

:)

[BigPapiPimp]

2 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

That'd be one solution.

 

Another would be to move most of Oberon's renewal cost onto Oberon himself (meaning he'd cost like... Five energy per tic to heal,) and a lower cost for everything else (something like 0.5 energy per tic.) 

I'm personally a fan of flat costs regardless of ally count as Oberon is being punished for supporting his team. You know. The role he was designed to fill. Support. He's being punished for doing it by having his energy sapped dry.

 

Please can this be looked at guys? It's really annoying especially when I'm going to uranus to poly farm.

I think the cost on allies is fine, and feels weighty. Its just that the rest of his kit feels so blah. I get that hes a jack of all trades, but none of his other abilities seem very neat or  rewarding, so the price on renewal feels even more taxing.

[Doomsknightmare]

I think DE just gave up Oberon rework, so they gives Oberon Prime more energy and more armor and I think that's their final answer. It's a pity. DE just dont like him, the rework is incomplete and his Prime looks ugly especially with that ugly-as-well Silva&Aegis Prime in his hands,and I lost my faith.

[BigPapiPimp]

I really like the prime...

[BigPapiPimp]

30 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

I'm not a fan of the helmet, but at the same time I'm gonna farm it regardless.

The helm was my favorite part! I'll stick it on the archefey skin for extra nastiness.

Edited May 19, 2017 by BigPapiPimp

[KnightCole]

Oberon Prime.....his torso is alot fatter then his legs and it makes him look alot more top heavy then the normal frame.  That hat....not a huge fan.  It looks a little like a Diablo II Great helm, worn by the Paladin, so on one hand, I figure, maybe it might grow on me, but on the other, I just dont like the way it looks.

Then Oberon Primes arms and legs are still skinny...he looks a little disproportionate....beef up his legs and arms, or thin down his torso front to back width and i think he might look a little better.  The horns would look cool if they were swaying back, instead of standing straight up as well....he looks a little like a fancy candle stick...

The boots to....look a little fat, like hes wearing rain boots that are to big for his feet, plays into the whole disproportionately sized body.  He has the arms and legs of Old Oberon, but bigger feet and a fatter front to back torso, with a narrower, much taller head. 

I think if they fixed up his proportions I could like his prime version alot more. 

I still look forward to getting him.  Oberon is my 2nd most played frame, and currently like him more then my Rhino Prime.  His abilities, just beef up his 1 and 4 a little more, give his 3 the armor/heal buff and just let his 2 be a long duration DOT carpet of death that amplifies damage vs any mobs standing on it and i think he'd be good. 

[Blakrana]

4 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

In fairness? I wasn't here when Oberon first came out, and it was years ago so he may well have been great for all the content back then.

Oberon came out during Cicero Crisis, Update 11.5. I joined at that time but from what I understood trickling down, even then Oberon wasn't considered much use compared to alternatives. Bear in mind Immortality Trinity was still a thing back then (Map wide Duration based 'You're invincible now' Blessing. Yup. Compete with that)

It took the first brush up he got a while back to make him seem a bit better...but well, still not enough.

And once again...bit better, still not quite there.

I guess for sake of analogy, Oberon is like the D&D 3.5 Fighter: He gets a bunch of feats, but he's got no class features to make him stand out against other options. He's lacking that strong unifying thread to make him a competitive choice in party compositions outside of those who just seem to like him, such as ourselves.

To which I feel the addressing of the "Renewal Summon Tax" is an important part in helping him get on track. As it is, if my friends are using Nekros, I'm better off taking Nidus if I want to provide offensive support and healing as needed right now.

[KnightCole]

17 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

To which I feel the addressing of the "Renewal Summon Tax" is an important part in helping him get on track. As it is, if my friends are using Nekros, I'm better off taking Nidus if I want to provide offensive support and healing as needed right now.

So its companions that suddenly make my energy drain 3x as fast?  I notice sometimes my energy suddenly starts counting down absurdly fast....

[Blakrana]

Just now, KnightCole said:

So its companions that suddenly make my energy drain 3x as fast?  I notice sometimes my energy suddenly starts counting down absurdly fast....

As of the moment, Renewal affects the following:

• Nekros' Shadows (kills your energy nigh instantly)
• Inaros' Sand Shadows
• Atlas' Rumblers
• Decoy
• Mind control target (most redundant of the lot)
• Nidus' Maggots
• Titania's Razorflies (I think. Hard to track)

Now in small numbers, like with Inaros' or Atlas' summons...it can be manageable. Even kind of amusing (fact it works on Mind Control for example). Yet, anything summoning units in large numbers (Nekros and Nidus, potentially Inaros) means each of those instances taking damage add to Renewal's cost for each one being damaged.

Seeing as Nekros' Shadows are always taking damage...cue Oberon's Energy going kaput nigh instantly as Renewal struggles to heal them. Faster if the Nekros has minions that also spawn minions.

Unmodded, Oberon heals allies at 2 Upkeep + 3 when healing. Nekros summons 7 shadows so...21 extra energy per second for a total of 23. Then add in every other ally taking damage and...yeah. No matter how much energy you have, it's unsustainable. Modding can only help mitigate the problem but until DE either a) removes Renewal affecting such units (most likely) or b) remove the Cost per unit when healing and leave it as a flat cost, the only way to avoid the problem is...not play with Nekros in general, or summon capable frames at all. Which only serves to limit Oberon's place in the roster, not expand it, for no real benefit.

I mean for the sake of argument, being able to heal and potentially buff other player's summons (Decoy can get Iron Renewal for example) is potentially interesting. Yet so long as he pays extra energy for each new unit affected...he can't sustain that for long.

It's not the only problem Oberon has to contend with right now,  but the "Renewal Summon Tax" is certainly one of the most glaring, and indeed quite common to spot.

[The_Grimmrock]

so Ive been pretty active about voicing my opinions on broberon for a while now, as well as compiling community feedback

I think there are a few tweaks neccessary to have oberon function on a level with nekros, trin, nidus, inaros, ect

those changes are:

HG Range increase to 18. adjust range scaling to match reckoning

Renewal energy cost flat 5/s from 3+3per target this fixes the bug with summons and helps his energy economy at the same time

Reckoning range increase to 18, drops orbs on hit.

 

thats it, thats all I think he needs to be done.

[(PSN)chibi_matatabi]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 6:54 PM, maj.death said:

It does everything it did before. PLUS MORE. I'm now convinced this is one big troll post.

it doesn't make the annoying animals attack their allies, which was really the main feature of the frame to me

[tnccs215]

8 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

I want to hope that they are going to roll out a set of major revisions come Prime Release, And by major I mean tweaks and bug fixes that turn this loose fitting jenga tower into a pillar of stability.

Oh dear.... 

So naive. 

[KnightCole]

4 hours ago, Blakrana said:

As of the moment, Renewal affects the following:

• Nekros' Shadows (kills your energy nigh instantly)
• Inaros' Sand Shadows
• Atlas' Rumblers
• Decoy
• Mind control target (most redundant of the lot)
• Nidus' Maggots
• Titania's Razorflies (I think. Hard to track)

Now in small numbers, like with Inaros' or Atlas' summons...it can be manageable. Even kind of amusing (fact it works on Mind Control for example). Yet, anything summoning units in large numbers (Nekros and Nidus, potentially Inaros) means each of those instances taking damage add to Renewal's cost for each one being damaged.

Seeing as Nekros' Shadows are always taking damage...cue Oberon's Energy going kaput nigh instantly as Renewal struggles to heal them. Faster if the Nekros has minions that also spawn minions.

Unmodded, Oberon heals allies at 2 Upkeep + 3 when healing. Nekros summons 7 shadows so...21 extra energy per second for a total of 23. Then add in every other ally taking damage and...yeah. No matter how much energy you have, it's unsustainable. Modding can only help mitigate the problem but until DE either a) removes Renewal affecting such units (most likely) or b) remove the Cost per unit when healing and leave it as a flat cost, the only way to avoid the problem is...not play with Nekros in general, or summon capable frames at all. Which only serves to limit Oberon's place in the roster, not expand it, for no real benefit.

I mean for the sake of argument, being able to heal and potentially buff other player's summons (Decoy can get Iron Renewal for example) is potentially interesting. Yet so long as he pays extra energy for each new unit affected...he can't sustain that for long.

It's not the only problem Oberon has to contend with right now,  but the "Renewal Summon Tax" is certainly one of the most glaring, and indeed quite common to spot.

Sooo, really, it should just be a fixed cost like half as high as it is...

[(PSN)ethandismembered]

On 5/18/2017 at 8:25 AM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Getting good got probably less to do with it then actuall acceptance of his current kit... calling out immortal gods nails it, he supports like a young god all while he's got decent CC, good damage and is a allmost immortal hypertank himself. Hell, use a appropiate build and he ranks next to chroma and hysteria valk as one of those frames that can facetank sortie 3 like it's no big deal.

Everything bejond the build is a selfrunner.

That's the one i use for facetanking everything from lower levels to sorties and hell man...

You don't say. Frames need mods to perform. That's new. Try going into a sortie with a chroma without armor mods, high stength and high duration or at least health regen tools, weapons or frames. I dare you.

I'm using a very similar build to yours and have to agree Oberon is pretty good. My only complaints are hallowed ground could use more range in terms of how far it extends out and I would prefer renewal to have a flat cost and be duration based rather than a toggle. I'll have to test your build out though. Like I said similar to mine but instead of quick thinking Ive got vitality, instead of stretch Ive got overextended and instead of corrosive projection I'm using growing power. Even if DE doesn't make these changes I'm fine with where Oberon sits. 

[Blakrana]

4 hours ago, KnightCole said:

Sooo, really, it should just be a fixed cost like half as high as it is...

A fixed cost would resolve the issue, certainly.

But what's likely to happen is they'll just flag summons as 'Does not affect' and leave the cost per unit there for allies. Whichever option takes the least effort will be the one we get I wager.

[tnccs215]

5 hours ago, KnightCole said:

Sooo, really, it should just be a fixed cost like half as high as it is...

"half as high" as the current base cost,  or the current squad wide cost? 

Because I do think doubling healing cost,  but with no extra target fee,  would be the best.  The current base drain is already light enough,  to the point of such increase seems fair to compensate the massive buff on overall efficiency. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

3 hours ago, (PS4)ethandismembered said:

I'm using a very similar build to yours and have to agree Oberon is pretty good. My only complaints are hallowed ground could use more range in terms of how far it extends out and I would prefer renewal to have a flat cost and be duration based rather than a toggle. I'll have to test your build out though. Like I said similar to mine but instead of quick thinking Ive got vitality, instead of stretch Ive got overextended and instead of corrosive projection I'm using growing power. Even if DE doesn't make these changes I'm fine with where Oberon sits. 

Growing power is actually a pretty legit option to CP/ES...I'm even considering using it over intensify and replacing that spot with Vitality so i have both, just to make power management a tad easyer on low energy levels but ya know, that's work for another day. Preferably on his prime.

The extra strength and QT are definitly worth it. Especially with how savage the life reg becomes in this strength range...it's able to counter incommimg damage as you recieve it, thus creating a scenario where you replentish both energy and health while you're beeing damaged, which are both your active health ...it's ridiculous. This tankiness lets you fight in the frontlines then, what more or less guarantees you a filled energy pool (if the enemys don't choose to ignore you for minutes), what compensates the range with the possibility to cast Hallowed ground more often...It's still enough for Reckoning to interrupt heavy fire when the enemys manage to hit trough to your energy pool, that's what's essencial.

Edited May 19, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)Oreic-Reynier]

On 5/18/2017 at 7:25 AM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Getting good got probably less to do with it then actuall acceptance of his current kit... calling out immortal gods nails it, he supports like a young god all while he's got decent CC, good damage and is a allmost immortal hypertank himself. Hell, use a appropiate build and he ranks next to chroma and hysteria valk as one of those frames that can facetank sortie 3 like it's no big deal.

Everything bejond the build is a selfrunner.

That's the one i use for facetanking everything from lower levels to sorties and hell man...

You don't say. Frames need mods to perform. That's new. Try going into a sortie with a chroma without armor mods, high stength and high duration or at least health regen tools, weapons or frames. I dare you.

What do your powers look like? By that I mean on the power screen what are all the numbers fot the powers now?

[LordMazulia]

Have they fixed the issue with his current passive? if your kubrow goes down and revives it lowers loyalty. Not sure because my pets haven't been going down.

[StabbyTentacles]

As of now, Oberon Prime is the fugliest Prime hands down.