Not enough reactant with AoE Frames

[crysed]

Finally got my Banshee Prime and finished building her, started doing some Void Fissure runs and it happend several times that there wasn't enough reactant if i killed the enemies too fast. I feel this should be changed somehow. Players getting punished for farming fast and efficient is just a huge disappointment and a big middle finger right into my face imo. I don't understand why this wasn't fixed already.

 

[TrickshotMcGee]

1 minute ago, crysed said:

i killed the enemies too fast.

Well this was the problem. Obviously you know that.

Fissures aren't meant to speedrun. They're designed to make you slow down compared to how quickly we could run Void Keys because the RNG is better than Void Keys. 

 

It doesn't need to be changed just to suit speed farming, especially considering that most people know how to go through the missions properly without screwing themselves over. If you see that you're killing too fast, it's your onus to slow down and make sure to collect reactant before wiping the level. 

 

It's not punishing efficient farming. Farming is already more efficient than it used to be. It's a mechanic of the game to ensure you don't farm too fast. Warframe IS a free-to-play. It's made so that you spend as much time playing it as possible. 

[MystMan]

You can still farm reactants fast, just not TOO fast.  Dial it down to 80% fast.

I just run past enemies without killing them and wait up in the next room, chances are that in the next 5 seconds a fissure opens up and they all turn corrupt.

Ember WoF players are problematic, they're the ones who kill too many enemies before they turn corrupt.This easily happens in sabotage missions that we reach extraction with only 5 reactants; for some reason fissures open up the least in that mission type.

[(PSN)Daisy_Dukes_USA]

In sabotage , Never destroy the reactor too quickly , all noobs do that , but after it's dead , impossible to get 10 react' 

In defense , Equinox - Banshee are not a good choice yes , you finish 5nd round with only 6-8 reactants , always

When u know that , it's ok

[crysed]

15 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Well this was the problem. Obviously you know that.

Fissures aren't meant to speedrun. They're designed to make you slow down compared to how quickly we could run Void Keys because the RNG is better than Void Keys. 

 

It doesn't need to be changed just to suit speed farming, especially considering that most people know how to go through the missions properly without screwing themselves over. If you see that you're killing too fast, it's your onus to slow down and make sure to collect reactant before wiping the level. 

 

It's not punishing efficient farming. Farming is already more efficient than it used to be. It's a mechanic of the game to ensure you don't farm too fast. Warframe IS a free-to-play. It's made so that you spend as much time playing it as possible. 

I just can't see it that way, but lucky for you that you can. You are right, RNG is much better but what is the point of Warframes that can clear large areas in no time when we can't even use them to their full potential? There are for sure other ways to slow down the process instead of crippling the playstyle of certain Frames because of the curret mechanic. 

I can only see this as bad game design. 

[BLI7Z]

It's even worse when the squad spreads far around the map in a survival and the enemy spawn gets screwed. 

[mplokijuhygtfrdeszqa]

12 hours ago, crysed said:

Finally got my Banshee Prime and finished building her, started doing some Void Fissure runs and it happend several times that there wasn't enough reactant if i killed the enemies too fast. I feel this should be changed somehow. Players getting punished for farming fast and efficient is just a huge disappointment and a big middle finger right into my face imo. I don't understand why this wasn't fixed already.

Warframe is a farming game. As any such game, it uses lame mechanics to slow you down and force you to farm longer.

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by mplokijuhygtfrdeszqa

[crysed]

21 minutes ago, mplokijuhygtfrdeszqa said:

Warframe is a farming game. As any such game, it uses lame mechanics to slow you down and force you to farm longer.

 

I wouldn't mindgetting slowed down. It is  the way the game does it that annoys me. 

[mplokijuhygtfrdeszqa]

5 minutes ago, crysed said:

I wouldn't mindgetting slowed down. It is  the way the game does it that annoys me. 

As I said, the way it does it is lame. Handing out AoE able to clear the whole map within seconds, and then saying "you can't use this ability because it clear the map too fast" is lame. You're annoyed because it's lame.

In the other hand, you asked "I don't understand why this wasn't fixed already". It wasn't fixed because it works as intended: devs want you to farm Banshee Prime and the syndicate mods, but they don't want you to farm faster.

[Naftal]

AoE frames require next to no effort to play. It's almost like botting.

Would be nice if they nerfed their efficiency much more. Or alternatively made active gameplay give you larger rewards than auto aim no effort gameplay.

[crysed]

12 minutes ago, Naftal said:

AoE frames require next to no effort to play. It's almost like botting.

Would be nice if they nerfed their efficiency much more. Or alternatively made active gameplay give you larger rewards than auto aim no effort gameplay.

Yes, AoE Frames are ridiculously efficient in some game modes. But this isn't the players fault, it's DEs fault to begin with. 

[Xarteros]

12 hours ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Well this was the problem. Obviously you know that.

Fissures aren't meant to speedrun. They're designed to make you slow down compared to how quickly we could run Void Keys because the RNG is better than Void Keys. 

The issue with this is when you're playing a defence or interception and you NEED to kill things with your powers to stop them from damaging/capturing the point. I like cruising around on one of my five Saryn Primes, and once my spores start spreading, everything just melts and dies.

Now, if I choose not to use my spores, I have to rely solely on guns or melee to clear enemies, and Saryn has no good defensive abilities to protect the core, or no good CC to stop enemies capturing the points. I either end up killing things too fast, and get no reactant, or I take my time and risk failing the mission.

OP is right to say that DE shouldn't force players to adhere to specific builds or loadouts just to succeed in the mission, but I also agree that they shouldn't allow it to be too cheesable. The easiest solution would be to spread the enemy spawns out more (to make it take longer and thus allow more room for Reactant to drop). They could also stop you from completing the mission until you have enough Reactant, and then just keep having small groups of Fissure units spawn in until you're done. Either way, you couldn't just blitz through it as quickly, and you'd need to put in a bit more effort.

Alternatively, they could change the Reactant requirement to 100 or so, and make Reactant drop in higher values and diminish over time (the longer you take to pick it up, the less it's worth for you). There would need to be a low-end cap to that, so backtracking to find some already-dropped reactant isn't worthless, but it'd promote people to get kills on a closer scale than just set-and-forget powers.

Also, to be fair, if DE want players to slow down, they should start rewarding players for slow and careful play, instead of rewarding people the most for sprinting through missions as fast as possible. All of the other missions are the most profitable if done quickly, and numerously instead of slowly and infrequently.

9 minutes ago, Naftal said:

AoE frames require next to no effort to play. It's almost like botting.

Would be nice if they nerfed their efficiency much more. Or alternatively made active gameplay give you larger rewards than auto aim no effort gameplay.

That's a really broad statement. Stuff like Ember and Banshee that can set-and-forget their AoEs are pretty busted yeah, but there are plenty of high-AoE frames that need a lot more work to get good progress, and require a lot more active gameplay. Plus, we're already seeing some channelling abilities get increasing costs, like Hysteria, so we might see the same treatment for stuff like Sound Quake and World on Fire.

[Reifnir]

13 hours ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Fissures aren't meant to speedrun.

Yeah, tell that to Exterminate fissures where you sometimes get 6-8 Reactant by clearing one room and run the rest of the mission mildly annoyed at useless fissures popping up here and there. Personally, I'd love to see abundant reactant drops in every game mode, so that you could actually make full use of reactant buffs instead of activating it on wave switch/at the end of a mission. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Reifnir

[TrickshotMcGee]

8 hours ago, Xarteros said:

The issue with this is when you're playing a defence or interception and you NEED to kill things with your powers to stop them from damaging/capturing the point. I like cruising around on one of my five Saryn Primes, and once my spores start spreading, everything just melts and dies.

Actually, there are any number of other alternatives that are arguably better for defending defense objectives and intercept points by a large margin, none of which need to kill enemies to be effective. 

Defense, IMO is the only one that could use adjustments in terms of how the reactant drops. Waiting for those enemies to get corrupted makes that gamemode last far longer than necessary, and far longer than any other gamemode. There are enough spawns in Intercept to easily provide the required reactant, especially considering that there's only 2-3 types of enemies you NEED to kill quickly (those being nullies, Scrabus, and Combas). Everything else can actually wait to die without penalty as long as you're using a Warframe that's well-suited to controlling/slowing the field rather than slaughtering it. 

8 hours ago, Reifnir said:

Yeah, tell that to Exterminate fissures where you sometimes get 6-8 Reactant by clearing one room and run the rest of the mission mildly annoyed at useless fissures popping up here and there.

That's just horrid RNG, not indicative that they should be rushed or changed so that they can be rushed. 

 

 

I think that, yes, there could be some QoL for Reactant drops. However, they should NOT be changed so that people can simply rush through them with Ember and slaughter everything as quickly as possible. 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

Really, it's just "Don't use your AOE until after everyone has reactant." You can see how much reactant everyone has if you turn on the player list, so you can get yourselves squared away first, and then go hard with AOE's. 

I think the proper QoL solution is:

a) Every enemy on the map is ALREADY corrupted, and

b) Every corrupted enemy drops reactant.

 

That's basically how exterminates work now (you can't run out of enemies OR reactant, mostly because reactant carpets the floor by the time you clear the first room). So just shortcut the problem points and make it "official."

 

Edit: alternatively, just crack the relic when you finish the mission, and do away with the collecting of reactant entirely. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[JVargo]

I've been running into the issue of not getting enough reactant in survival and interception a lot lately. As much as I enjoy this game everything about it pushes you toward overwhelming power. If you aren't close to one shotting everything it will one or two shot you. Furthermore if you're not killing fast enough you run out of life support eventually. To then say the solution to the reactant problem is to wait around dodging trying not to die until they get corrupted is unfair in my opinion and counter to the general direction of the game. If we need to slow down that is fine, but then having over 900 shields has to mean something when 24 guys are firing on you and those two Ancients are chain dragging you across the floor. Seems to me it would just be simpler to increase the reactant drop in endless missions, or make every spawn corrupted.