Rivens for Exalted weapons

[Epsik-kun]

Seeing how ridiculously high can stats on Rivens for strong disposition weapons go, I can't help but agree with the decision to prevent them from affecting Exalted weapons.

However, I've come to like the whole concept of Rivens very much. I finally found a reason to do Sorties which I used to hate with a passion. I'll be frank - I don't have much to do in Warframe anymore. I'm a "stick to a character and make them strong" kind of a guy, so all of the new frame and weapon releases mean very little to me - I have my few frames of a choice and I stick to them very rarely picking something new up. In Rivens I see a valid reason for me to play - by spinning the luck roulette I get a chance of making my arsenal objectively stronger instead of merely getting more stuff to hoard. I can move forward.

I personally would love to get a chance for this feeling to apply to Exalted weapons as well. What I suggest is to introduce Riven mods which target specifically the Exalted weapons like Exalted Blade, Hysteria, Peacemaker and so on. Balance the disposition - say, 1/5 for EBlade, 2-3/5 for Hysteria (seeing as it can't have 100% uptime anymore and building for Hysteria is strictly worse than just using a Warcry build with a Blood Rush weapon), 3-4/5 for Primal Fury (or just buff it already) - so that the mod power can be controlled and nothing would break.

Similarly to the weapon Rivens not affecting Exalted weapons, Exalted Rivens should not affect the weapons they are installed in, meaning the player will have to sacrifice some of their regular weapon power. I've seen people say "but we shouldn't mod differently for regular and Exalted weapons", however, we already do. Augments and Shadow Debt mods don't work on Exalted weapons (which is a huge deal for melee especially, given how dramatically had Blood Rush and Maiming Strike changed the whole melee meta) and not all weapons are equal hosts for the Exalted abilities (as opposed to the "only mods matter"). Some ask for the ability to mod Exalted weapons separately, but personally, I enjoy the idea of having to make some sacrifices in order to make the abilities more powerful.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Epsik-kun

[Yual]

good idea but for my part I would prefer a stats like : +25% riven effect on exalted weapon.

 

[Dark5eiD]

can you please make text white, i would like to read this and cannot.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Dark5eiD

[Epsik-kun]

15 minutes ago, Dark5eiD said:

can you please make text white, i would like to read this and cannot.

Should be fixed now, sorry about that.

27 minutes ago, yual said:

good idea but for my part I would prefer a stats like : +25% riven effect on exalted weapon.

Do you mean universally or like another possible stats out of the stat pool for Rivens?

[Yual]

3 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Should be fixed now, sorry about that.

Do you mean universally or like another possible stats out of the stat pool for Rivens?

yep, not a strong stats. ( max: 30 ~ 40%)

 

[Epsik-kun]

10 hours ago, yual said:

yep, not a strong stats. ( max: 30 ~ 40%)

That would have the same problem as simply allowing Rivens to work for Exalted weapons, just to a lesser degree. Not to mention, it'll add a niche stat to the pool which will be garbage most of the time and will make their RNG more frustrating for both attempting to get a decent regular and exalted Riven.

[BuzzBomb8]

People need to realize that just because Excalibur's 4 is called Exalted Blade, doesn't mean any similar power to that (Valkyr's Hysteria, Mesa's Peacemakers, Ivara's Artemis Bow) is also "exalted." Calling them something like "summon-able weapons" or "energy weapons" would make more sense than lumping them together based on just 1 name. We don't call those types of weapons "Artemis weapons" just because Ivara has an Artemis Bow or "Hysteria weapons" because of Valkyr. DE really should just give them an official name at this point.

[Dark5eiD]

3 minutes ago, BuzzBomb8 said:

People need to realize that just because Excalibur's 4 is called Exalted Blade, doesn't mean any similar power to that (Valkyr's Hysteria, Mesa's Peacemakers, Ivara's Artemis Bow) is also "exalted." Calling them something like "summon-able weapons" or "energy weapons" would make more sense than lumping them together based on just 1 name. We don't call those types of weapons "Artemis weapons" just because Ivara has an Artemis Bow or "Hysteria weapons" because of Valkyr. DE really should just give them an official name at this point.

CSW's - character specific weapons.

ive heard of them being referred to as this on the forums

Edited July 18, 2017 by Dark5eiD

[BuzzBomb8]

1 minute ago, Dark5eiD said:

CSW's - character specific weapons

That will work.

[yles9056]

As long as each weapon has balanced disposition, I'm all for it.

[Surrebral]

How broken would Warframe Rivens be?

These stats would be random like all other Rivens, but would effect things like duration, efficiency, power strength, power range, armor, knockdown, health, shields, etc.

Lets say its an Excalibur specific Riven that gives him bonus duration and knockdown recovery but reduces shields.

That too meta?

[Mousarchy]

4 hours ago, DariusMcSwag said:

How broken would Warframe Rivens be?

These stats would be random like all other Rivens, but would effect things like duration, efficiency, power strength, power range, armor, knockdown, health, shields, etc.

Lets say its an Excalibur specific Riven that gives him bonus duration and knockdown recovery but reduces shields.

That too meta?

Atlas with Eff,Str -knockdown recovery.
Valkyr/inaros/nidus with -shield +armor +str

all the other frames im sure i can think of some fun things...Its a good thing we arnt getting warframe rivens...but ya it makes since for them not to give ability weapons stats. That should have been expected considering weapon spacific mods dont work on them (anyone remember when skana and dual cleaver augments worked on EB?)

[Xzorn]

But..... Why?

Exalted weapons already scale far beyond the level range where the Frame can effectively deal with enemy damage output.

Hysteria can have 100% up time and it does substantially more damage than a Warcry build.

One reason why Rivens don't work in the first place is certain things are overlooked and create ridiculous and/or lack luster weapons.  My Valkyr can already do 180k auto attacks and 3 million Slide attacks without stealth multipliers and you're talking about increasing that damage. Exalted Blade is debatabley better than Hysteria since it can deal with armor better, Mesa can push past lvl 400 Solo already and I dunno about Primal Fury. I don't play Wukong.

[Epsik-kun]

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

But..... Why?

I believe, I explained "why" quite explicitly - ellipsis or not. In fact, about a half of the post is dedicated to explaining "why".

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Exalted weapons already scale far beyond the level range where the Frame can effectively deal with enemy damage output.

So do regular weapons

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Hysteria can have 100% up time and it does substantially more damage than a Warcry build.

It can not. It's possible to make it bearable by jumping in and out of Hysteria (thus wasting extra energy on activations), but up to 15 base energy/second is far beyond anything that can be sustained. If you can run Hysteria on Mercury where enemies die from getting looked at and drop orbs like crazy doesn't mean it'll be sustainable in the actual content you would want to use Hysteria in. Even paired Arcane Energize can eventually fail to sustain that load.

Also, Hysteria is nowhere close to the effective damage output of the regular Warcry build. Status weapons make Warcry build better against ultra-high level content and long-range weapons (especially Atterax) put it leagues above Hysteria in terms of clearing the regular content (which includes any Sorties). The only thing Hysteria has going for it is excessive pure damage in a minuscule reach.

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

One reason why Rivens don't work in the first place

I see no substance in this statement. To me, Rivens seem to be working perfectly fine - including their original intended purpose.

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

My Valkyr can already do 180k auto attacks and 3 million Slide attacks without stealth multipliers and you're talking about increasing that damage.

And what exactly is wrong with that? Despite all these numbers, Hysteria's current use is limited to freeing up a melee mod slot from Life Strike and reviving teammates. Everything else is done better by regular weapons.

Not to mention, that your "can" assumes 4% level 2 critical headshots or massive body part and element vulnerabilities while implying usage of an unsustainable build and already having Naramon up (which, by the way, grants stealth multipliers in solo - just in case you were testing it in Simulacrum). I guess, having an x4 combo multiplier or a bunch of status effects paired with Condition Overload (on a 10% status chance weapon) will work too. Anyway, the average damage won't be as impressive and both it and damage spikes fall off hard against armor.

Also, I can't really understand the reasoning behind this whole statement. Are you afraid of big numbers? Pretty much the whole cast in the game can achieve higher average numbers on their melee. Likes of Mirage or Chroma can achieve higher numbers than the luckiest Hysteria spin under perfect circumstances. Banshee can hit for 2.7 billion damage. All of that can be done on a massively higher AoE than what Hysteria has.

[blackheartstar_pc]

15 hours ago, BuzzBomb8 said:

People need to realize that just because Excalibur's 4 is called Exalted Blade, doesn't mean any similar power to that (Valkyr's Hysteria, Mesa's Peacemakers, Ivara's Artemis Bow) is also "exalted." Calling them something like "summon-able weapons" or "energy weapons" would make more sense than lumping them together based on just 1 name. We don't call those types of weapons "Artemis weapons" just because Ivara has an Artemis Bow or "Hysteria weapons" because of Valkyr. DE really should just give them an official name at this point.

I don't know this logic reminds me of people who get upset when we refer other planets natural satellites as moons then cite that Moon is just the name given to Earths satellite.

Edited July 19, 2017 by blackheartstar_pc

[Xzorn]

13 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

I believe, I explained "why" quite explicitly - ellipsis or not. In fact, about a half of the post is dedicated to explaining "why".

Your reasons are stated but they're arbitrary.

There's no mechanical purpose behind them. You like Rivens. That doesn't mean they serve a productive purpose for Exalted weapons.

14 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

So do regular weapons

No actually. most regular weapons in this game do not scale beyond the point many frames can handle content without multiple damage buffs in play.

Exaclibur is the worse offender of having more damage than he can use. He's unable to reliably use his Exalted Blade without also using Naramon. Mesa as mentioned can go past lvl 400 but she needs an Ancient Healer Specter and faction based mods to go beyond lvl 200 because her 32k eHp falls off well before her damage.

19 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

It can not. It's possible to make it bearable by jumping in and out of Hysteria (thus wasting extra energy on activations), but up to 15 base energy/second is far beyond anything that can be sustained. If you can run Hysteria on Mercury where enemies die from getting looked at and drop orbs like crazy doesn't mean it'll be sustainable in the actual content you would want to use Hysteria in. Even paired Arcane Energize can eventually fail to sustain that load.

So get two Energize sets.

She can do it with one set.  it's a bit tight and sometimes you need to reset the drain. Not actually leaving it off mind you.

Damage =/= Status. Excessive Status has value against armor which is 50% of the game and can be removed.

You're comparing Status and Reach. That's the thing Warcry can do over Hysteria but even then you need Naramon for the x8 stealth multiplier and to stay alive. So really what you're comparing here is Naramon Vs. Hysteria and not Valkyr.

This is where the joke "Best Warframe is Naramon" comes from.

35 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

I see no substance in this statement. To me, Rivens seem to be working perfectly fine - including their original intended purpose.

Let me see that 2 hour Solo run with a Karak Wraith then. Maybe Seer? or Vasto? OH! I know. Lets compare Nikana Prime to Dragon Nikana.

38 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Not to mention, that your "can" assumes 4% level 2 critical headshots or massive body part and element vulnerabilities while implying usage of an unsustainable build and already having Naramon up (which, by the way, grants stealth multipliers in solo - just in case you were testing it in Simulacrum). I guess, having an x4 combo multiplier or a bunch of status effects paired with Condition Overload (on a 10% status chance weapon) will work too. Anyway, the average damage won't be as impressive and both it and damage spikes fall off hard against armor.

No, I'm not using any head-shots or body part multipliers and I specifically said without Stealth multipliers. It's 26% Status if you build for it. 180k auto attack is with 2 status applied which takes an avg of 7.5 hits at x3 combo. A modest parse.

Chroma, Banshee and Mirage are more examples of not being able to make full use of their damage output.

I'm not afraid of big numbers. I dislike pointless improvements. I get this feeling your comparisons are based on Naramon while mine are based on the frames and weapon's themselves.  I don't use Naramon, which is prolly why I don't see any point to improving weapons that already scale beyond the frame's ability to survive and if you're in a group they benefit just as much if not more than other weapons, esp when you can eliminate armor.

What you're suggesting is to improve weapons that don't need it using a system that doesn't fully work.

[(PSN)SaintRain459]

Yeah...how about no. The csws don't need rivens because they do enough damage already and we don't want to further dilute the drop tables. You guys just got melee rivens added in and we're supposed to get them soon.

Also just because you like rivens and their whole system doesn't mean others do. I'm one of those who doesn't and I personally don't use rivens at all. I hate all of the RNG stacked on top of each other with that whole ordeal. 

[DatDarkOne]

17 hours ago, BuzzBomb8 said:

People need to realize that just because Excalibur's 4 is called Exalted Blade, doesn't mean any similar power to that (Valkyr's Hysteria, Mesa's Peacemakers, Ivara's Artemis Bow) is also "exalted." Calling them something like "summon-able weapons" or "energy weapons" would make more sense than lumping them together based on just 1 name. We don't call those types of weapons "Artemis weapons" just because Ivara has an Artemis Bow or "Hysteria weapons" because of Valkyr. DE really should just give them an official name at this point.

They kinda did give them all a name.  Exalted Weapons.  The Weapon Class just happens to be named after the very first weapon of this type.  Kinda like all war ship classes are all named after the first one.  Nimitz Class carriers are/were named such because the first of the type was the Nimitz. 

It's a naming convention that has been used before for years, but mostly by the military.  So not quite as crazy or illogical as you might be thinking.  :D