Devstream #96 Overview

[BornWithTeeth]

Silverback, to clarify: That unique drops would be gated behind this mode is actually not my concern, it's that of another poster. I explained it to you because you demanded such an explanation.

 

If Stalker mode has some drop that I really want, I'll grit my teeth and go get it. I do, after all, have endgame weapons, more experience in Conclave than the majority of players, and I always favour tankier, more balanced and less Power min maxed builds than most meta calls for. I actually have no doubts about my ability to hold my own against any such Stalker. I would just find it annoying to have to put up with childish edginess.

 

My objection is not 'I won't be able to get cool stuff'. My objection is 'this mode is steeped in toxicity. Look at the trial mode which DE launched, and look at the way that half of its supporters talk. This is not something that will be good for the game.'

You keep insisting that no-one should base their expectations on the trial mode that DE revealed, and I find that very strange. You insist, over and over, that DE will instead launch a wildly different and perfected version of the mode, that that is what we should talk about. 

DE have never, ever launched a perfect game mode, and this trial version was made by them in the first place. When DE made an experimental Stalker mode, this is what they produced. Every single feature of this game mode was programmed into it deliberately, it was not somehow an accident which they want to fix. Why are you starting from the assumption that they will totally change it and make it into what you want, when this is what they made and previewed?

That's not somehow more rational. That is starting with the assumption that DE will break with prior patterns of behaviour in order to somehow prove you right.

 

Have you considered the possibility that because you like the idea, that in itself is causing you to have unrealistic expectations? After all, if DE know how to blend PvP and PvE in a way which is proof against griefing, harassment, and toxicity, then they wouldn't have had to shut down Dark Sectors.

[achromos]

9 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Silverback, to clarify: That unique drops would be gated behind this mode is actually not my concern, it's that of another poster. I explained it to you because you demanded such an explanation.

 

If Stalker mode has some drop that I really want, I'll grit my teeth and go get it. I do, after all, have endgame weapons, more experience in Conclave than the majority of players, and I always favour tankier, more balanced and less Power min maxed builds than most meta calls for. I actually have no doubts about my ability to hold my own against any such Stalker. I would just find it annoying to have to put up with childish edginess.

 

My objection is not 'I won't be able to get cool stuff'. My objection is 'this mode is steeped in toxicity. Look at the trial mode which DE launched, and look at the way that half of its supporters talk. This is not something that will be good for the game.'

You keep insisting that no-one should base their expectations on the trial mode that DE revealed, and I find that very strange. You insist, over and over, that DE will instead launch a wildly different and perfected version of the mode, that that is what we should talk about. 

DE have never, ever launched a perfect game mode, and this trial version was made by them in the first place. When DE made an experimental Stalker mode, this is what they produced. Every single feature of this game mode was programmed into it deliberately, it was not somehow an accident which they want to fix. Why are you starting from the assumption that they will totally change it and make it into what you want, when this is what they made and previewed?

That's not somehow more rational. That is starting with the assumption that DE will break with prior patterns of behaviour in order to somehow prove you right.

 

Have you considered the possibility that because you like the idea, that in itself is causing you to have unrealistic expectations? After all, if DE know how to blend PvP and PvE in a way which is proof against griefing, harassment, and toxicity, then they wouldn't have had to shut down Dark Sectors.

 

I thought they shut down the Dark Sectors for multiple reasons like, Players getting Unhappy about 'their' nodes being taken by other clans, or people being unhappy about a "Free" node being replaced by a node and that they then had to pay a good chunk out of what they got from farming the node in the first place.  I didn't do that much of the whole Dark Sector thing (pvp wise myself, nor did I have a clan at the time that was 'in' all of it),  though I did hear greatly about that Drama.

Personally, as I have said before I'm not invested in the whole Stalker Player thing I just find it interesting and as you have said they have "Never" launched a perfect new mode, I remember the release of Archwing... for example.  Though it is definitely better then before, hopefully DE skips releasing it early (if they even do) and goes to the "Player Stalker Version 2.0"

Also you cannot judge people off of a few comments in a forums, some people get combative when they see something interesting being attacked just off the basis of "I don't want." Which let's be honest is ok, but like I said before... it's one person using the stalkers loadout vs 1-4 people who could be equipped with anything under the sun.  I see more of the cards stacked in the players favor from the get go.

Edited July 30, 2017 by achromos

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, achromos said:

 

I thought they shut down the Dark Sectors for multiple reasons like, Players getting Unhappy about 'their' nodes being taken by other clans, or people being unhappy about a "Free" node being replaced by a node and that they then had to pay a good chunk out of what they got from farming the node in the first place.  I didn't do that much of the whole Dark Sector thing (pvp wise myself, nor did I have a clan at the time that was 'in' all of it),  though I did hear greatly about that Drama.

Personally, as I have said before I'm not invested in the whole Stalker Player thing I just find it interesting and as you have said they have "Never" launched a perfect new mode, I remember the release of Archwing... for example.  Though it is definitely better then before, hopefully DE skips releasing it early (if they even do) and goes to the "Player Stalker Version 2.0"

Also you cannot judge people off of a few comments in a forums, some people get combative when they see something interesting being attacked just off the basis of "I don't want." Which let's be honest is ok, but like I said before... it's one person using the stalkers loadout vs 1-4 people who could be equipped with anything under the sun.  I see more of the cards stacked in the players favor from the get go.

Well, the Stalker player has the information advantage, i.e. As the invader, the Stalker knows there's gonna be a fight, while the target doesn't. In other words, make sure that no matter what you're doing, at all times, carry a hitscan high damage weapon which can do some radiation damage against Stalker's alloy armour.

 

They'd also have to remove the feature which allows player stalkers to track and attack specific players based on their username. I cannot believe that DE don't see the harassment problem there.

[achromos]

2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Well, the Stalker player has the information advantage, i.e. As the invader, the Stalker knows there's gonna be a fight, while the target doesn't. In other words, make sure that no matter what you're doing, at all times, carry a hitscan high damage weapon which can do some radiation damage against Stalker's alloy armour.

 

They'd also have to remove the feature which allows player stalkers to track and attack specific players based on their username. I cannot believe that DE don't see the harassment problem there.

I agree being able to attack specific players really needs to not be a thing, not even dark souls went that far.  (Best you could do was set up a code and attempt to invade that way but the invadee had to do the same)

 

Being honest though, I always carry a good weapon on me even if I am leveling everything else because I might end up in a squad that needs me to contribute more then just pulling my own weight or we might have the normal stalker or assassins coming through, I wouldn't change much if anything in how I play the game tbh.

[BornWithTeeth]

26 minutes ago, achromos said:

I agree being able to attack specific players really needs to not be a thing, not even dark souls went that far.  (Best you could do was set up a code and attempt to invade that way but the invadee had to do the same)

 

Being honest though, I always carry a good weapon on me even if I am leveling everything else because I might end up in a squad that needs me to contribute more then just pulling my own weight or we might have the normal stalker or assassins coming through, I wouldn't change much if anything in how I play the game tbh.

Part of what weirds me out about this is how folks say 'Yeah, this'll be great, just like Dark Souls,' and then suggest a system which is way more toxic than Dark Souls invasions. Invaders remaining anonymous while being able to target specific players by name? People responding with rabid hostility to even the suggestion of making the mode optional?

 

Lads. That ain't what Dark Souls is actually like.

[OniDax]

3 hours ago, achromos said:

 

I thought they shut down the Dark Sectors for multiple reasons like, Players getting Unhappy about 'their' nodes being taken by other clans, or people being unhappy about a "Free" node being replaced by a node and that they then had to pay a good chunk out of what they got from farming the node in the first place.  I didn't do that much of the whole Dark Sector thing (pvp wise myself, nor did I have a clan at the time that was 'in' all of it),  though I did hear greatly about that Drama.

Personally, as I have said before I'm not invested in the whole Stalker Player thing I just find it interesting and as you have said they have "Never" launched a perfect new mode, I remember the release of Archwing... for example.  Though it is definitely better then before, hopefully DE skips releasing it early (if they even do) and goes to the "Player Stalker Version 2.0"

Also you cannot judge people off of a few comments in a forums, some people get combative when they see something interesting being attacked just off the basis of "I don't want." Which let's be honest is ok, but like I said before... it's one person using the stalkers loadout vs 1-4 people who could be equipped with anything under the sun.  I see more of the cards stacked in the players favor from the get go.

IIRC, they shut it down for two reasons: 1) it was incredibly toxic, with clan vs clan and alliance vs alliance drama daily. It made the forums a much more negative place than it is now. 2) ever since DE turned Dark Sectors into a PvP mode, it became more unpopular and players stopped playing it.

That aside, he's right. You shouldn't expect DE to produce anything different than what they've already presented, at least at release. That just goes against DE's practice for the last four years. What DE releases will probably be as incomplete as it can be. Then they'll come back to it and try to tweak it, maybe even overhaul it, but only later.

It's the same reason I don't expect Plains of Eidolon to be much more than what they've shown off at Tennocon (which was the same demo they showed on the devstream). In a month's time there was nothing new, nothing more, to show for Plains of Eidolon. Some people think DE might still work in some more substance to the gameplay we'll get in the Plains, but that also goes against DE's past history.

Even if you have hope that this time DE will change, it's best to temper that hope. At worst, you won't be surprised at the outcome. At best, you'll be surprised.