Trinity and people need to stop

[leojst]

most people never played her right thats why it took 3 years and like 5 nerfs later to say trinity is OP AGAIN. ev and well of life was nerfed before and it was worst then then it is now the energy perk is better if you kill the enemy the small amount you get from the pluses is not worth the time. its not like back when you hit multi enemys with both ev and well of life so im gonna sleep on it plus trinity has no real offensive skill since the link nerf so you have  energy but she lost her survivability some what but not enough to cry over.  if their was an oversight it was on the players side not the devs. because the community never seems to notice all the frames that have "OP Abilities" till someone holds their hand and shows them how to use it or they see it all the time. instead of finding their own play style they jump on the way other people play the game. i have my own way of playing my frames and all my frames are teamed focused because i have a team unlike people who play with randoms and will continue to see one trick ponies and come to the forums talking about whats "OP". my squad plays with all their frames abilities to benefit the team and you can ask any good player about their squad cause randoms don't make the best team. so if you are in a clan find 7 people you can team up with and plan out your mission to get the most out of it.

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by leojst

[StinkyPygmy]

What are you even talking about OP?

[PoisonHD]

Just now, StinkyPygmy said:

What are you even talking about OP?

Man, someone beat me to it

[leojst]

OP means over powered -.-

[Shoelip]

Yeah, that's the only part that makes sense.  You said OP, which means overpowered.

[Ny_Soro]

2 minutes ago, leojst said:

OP means over powered -.-

 

1 minute ago, Shoelip said:

Yeah, that's the only part that makes sense.  You said OP, which means overpowered.

If you're new to the forums. It can also mean 'Original Poster' for and everyone who posts after may refer to the original poster as OP.

[leojst]

Just now, Nowe999 said:

 

If you're new to the forums. It can also mean 'Original Poster' for and everyone who posts after may refer to the original poster as OP.

i see well thats good to know

[Shoelip]

3 minutes ago, Nowe999 said:

 

If you're new to the forums. It can also mean 'Original Poster' for and everyone who posts after may refer to the original poster as OP.

Ok, but it would make no sense for the Original Poster to say OP and mean that trinity is the original poster, so what does that have to do with the original post being incomprehensible?

Edited August 5, 2017 by Shoelip

[Arkvold]

Good grief, what a wall of text.

Look, I know what you're getting at, but as the old saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than with salt.  You're kinda coming across as throwing a lot of salt around.

Listen - just because you play a 'frame differently than other people doesn't mean that the frame isn't potentially overpowered.  Overpoweredness is not based on your build, or my build, or anyone's build in particular.  It's based on whatever build allows a 'frame, weapon, mod, or any combination any of the above to snap the game's difficulty in half.  If that's not your build, then tough luck.  Your build's just not the meta, and it's not the build the devs are going to look at when it comes to addressing balance issues.

Why do you think meta builds, 'frames, and weapons get popular?  It's because they're either extremely easy to understand and use effectively, or they provide huge returns on investment.  Trinity is kinda notorious for doing both things.  We're talking about a Warframe, that with the press of one button, can bring anyone on her team that's not dead, no matter how critical they might be, back to full health, and allow them to take only 1/4th normal damage from all sources for a while.  We're talking about a Warframe that can, with very little effort on her part, provide an entire team with functionally limitless energy, shields, and even overshields, which in turn makes energy a meaningless limitation for such a team.

That is a massive force-multiplier.  Few other support warframes can even compare to that, let alone actually compete.

This is why Trinity's eaten nerf after nerf.  Unfortunately, none of them have done much to address the real issue with Trinity.  Trinity's real issue, is that a Trinity who is pumping herself and her team full of energy and popping bless on a regular basis can make a bad team look competent, and a good team into the hand of God, with just two abilities.

Worse yet, Trinity has existed in this condition for so long, that content has been designed around her having this capability.  This is bad for two reasons.  First, it makes her almost required in such content, and thus limits the amount of viable variety in team composition.  Second, it encourages the (broken) meta builds to be played, because they're necessary for the content designed around them, and they break all the content that isn't in half.

Basically, DE has backed themselves into a corner with Trinity, in terms of game design.  She's so crucial to a lot of meta that it just doesn't function without her, and they've designed content around that meta.  If they actually fix Trinity, the content designed around her old power is now broken until either DE changes it to match, or a new meta that doesn't require Old Trinity is discovered.  If they don't fix Trinity, they have to keep designing content around her overpoweredness, which just adds to the problem.  Either way, they're going to eat player outrage - just like the outrage you posted.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Arkvold

[Ny_Soro]

1 minute ago, Shoelip said:

Ok, but it would make no sense for the Original Poster to say OP and mean that trinity is the original poster, so what does that have to do with the original post being incomprehensible?

We're probably getting confused. @leojst may have referred to Trinity as OP or over powered and since he is the original poster. I'm simply pointing out when he clarified it to the other two who were wondering what he was talking about.

[leojst]

1 minute ago, Shoelip said:

Ok, but it would make no sense for the OP to say OP and mean that trinity is the original poster, so what does that have to do with the OP?

ok im not understanding what you  don't understand cause no one is saying anything but OP so please say more or this will be hard for me to tell you what i mean

[Shoelip]

1 minute ago, Arkvold said:

Good grief, what a wall of text.

Are you being intentionally ironic here?

[Arkvold]

Just now, Shoelip said:

Are you being intentionally ironic here?

Hey, I break paragraphs, avoid run-on sentences, and try to make things readable.  There's a difference between a wall of text and a long post.

[Shoelip]

6 minutes ago, Nowe999 said:

We're probably getting confused. @leojst may have referred to Trinity as OP or over powered and since he is the original poster. I'm simply pointing out when he clarified it to the other two who were wondering what he was talking about.

What I'm talking about has nothing to do with the meaning of "OP".  I'm saying that even understanding exactly what the OP means in saying those two letters, the post still doesn't make sense because it's written incoherently.  I don't think that it would even help that much if he'd bothered to capitalize the beginnings of any of his sentences.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Shoelip

[leojst]

6 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

Good grief, what a wall of text.

Look, I know what you're getting at, but as the old saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than with salt, and you're kinda coming across as throwing a lot of salt around.

Listen - just because you play a 'frame differently than other people doesn't mean that the frame isn't potentially OP.  Overpoweredness is not based on your build, or my build, but whatever build allows a 'frame or weapon or mod combination any of the above to snap the game's difficulty in half.  If that's not your build, then tough luck - your build's just not the meta, and it's not the build the devs are going to look at when it comes to addressing balance issues.

Why do you think meta builds, 'frames, and weapons get popular?  It's because they're either extremely easy to understand and use effectively, or they provide huge returns on investment.  Trinity is kinda notorious for doing both things.  We're talking about a Warframe, that with the press of one button, can bring anyone on her team that's not dead, no matter how critical they might be, back to full health, and allow them to take only 1/4th normal damage from all sources for a while.  We're talking about a Warframe that can, with very little effort on her part, provide an entire team with functionally limitless energy, shields, and even overshields, which in turn makes energy a meaningless limitation for such a team.

That is a massive force-multiplier.  Few other support warframes can even compare to that, let alone actually compete.

This is why Trinity's eaten nerf after nerf.  Unfortunately, none of them have done much to address the real issue with Trinity: that a Trinity who is pumping herself and her team full of energy and popping bless on a regular basis can make a bad team look competent, and a good team into the hand of God, with just two abilities.  Worse yet, Trinity has existed in this condition for so long, that content has been designed around her having this capability.  This is bad for two reasons - one, it makes her almost required in such content, and thus limits the amount of viable variety in team composition, and two it encourages the (broken) meta builds to be played, because they're necessary for the content designed around them, and they break all the content that isn't in half.

Basically, DE has backed themselves into a corner with Trinity, in terms of game design.  She's so crucial to a lot of meta that it just doesn't function without her, and they've designed content around that meta.  If they actually fix Trinity, the content designed around her old power is now broken until either DE changes it to match, or a new meta that doesn't require Old Trinity is discovered.  If they don't fix Trinity, they have to keep designing content around her overpoweredness, which just adds to the problem.  Either way, they're going to eat player outrage - just like the outrage you posted.

i understand what you are saying but i only use her when i just wanna mess around with the guys or the team wants to test a new frame. im all about having fun and causing as much trouble as possible i like running on till wave 60 or running on for a long time in a survival and i dont need her to do it.i remember when you could build and talk about your build with out someone trying to nerf your frame for it. like before i had a oberon build before the rework that i would only talk about with my group but then nobody really liked oberon so i got away with murder only because i kept my mouth shut 

[Harbinger_Of_OwO]

If i'm reading this right, you're complaining about one frame that's used regularly and is apparently very cheese? Trin is a great suppler but outside of that yeah she ain't much of a damage dealer. So why are you going on about how you're 'prepared strategically' for every mission? Sure Trin can heal (so can oberon, nekros, chroma kinda, inaros and equinox) and give energy (nekros, hydroid with his ult augment on drops, harrow, and limbo) but what she lack can be filled with said randoms. So complaining about a talked subject isn't helping nobody (ironic I've completely contradicted myself). Just because you always got a set team doesn't make you top dog. I've played since Excalibur prime's prime access and always played with randoms, and let me tell ya depending on the difficulty and reward of the mission. Those randoms are often pretty damn helpful when you're under prepared. BTW the reason people often try to find perfect builds is to make the most out of the said frame/weapon. Lastly, nerfing isn't because someone wants to wreck your all so perfect build, it's because DE has noticed a large unbalance in the frame and tries to even out the playing field for all players. (if you're reading this i'm not mad or salty or anything i'm just speaking my opinion)

[Arkvold]

18 minutes ago, leojst said:

i understand what you are saying but i only use her when i just wanna mess around with the guys or the team wants to test a new frame. im all about having fun and causing as much trouble as possible i like running on till wave 60 or running on for a long time in a survival and i dont need her to do it.i remember when you could build and talk about your build with out someone trying to nerf your frame for it. like before i had a oberon build before the rework that i would only talk about with my group but then nobody really liked oberon so i got away with murder only because i kept my mouth shut 

The only people who can nerf your frame is DE.

People can scream and cry and whine all they want, but unless DE agrees with them, your 'frame is safe.  If you want to keep a waframe from being nerfed, you should make your case to DE - not to other players.  Rather than complaining about the people complaining about your 'frame, look at why DE would be interested in changing your 'frame, and how they intend to change your 'frame, and address that.  Complaining about complainers is redundant.

For example, look at the Ash bladestorm nerf.  There was a lot of outcry about Ash being able to hit 4 and kill a room.  There were complaints from Ash players about their inability to avoid wasting all their attacks on Ancient Disruptors and Healers that they had no chance of killing.

So how did Ash get nerfed?  DE made Ash's Bladestorm require more involvement than just standing in a pack of enemies and hitting 4 and grabbing a sandwich.  They made it so you could actively pick which enemies Bladestorm attacks and which it doesn't.

Now, this alone would've made Bladestorm a lot more tolerable, but DE also did two other nerfs to Bladestorm that made it irritating to use.  First, they made the targeting effect a channelled ability that eats energy for every target placed.  As a result, Bladestorm has a variable energy cost and costs more for the same number of hits.  Second, Bladestorm now takes a lot more time to target, especially if you're attempting any sort of precision about what you're hitting and how many times.  During this time, some other player is probably going to hit one button and destroy them, wasting your effort.

So right now, Bladestorm is over-nerfed, at least by player standpoint.  DE, however, has not provided any indication that they feel Ash is weak.  So, until DE feels that Ash is over-nerfed, Bladestorm will remain in the state that it's in.

See how this works?  It's DE that handles nerfing, and DE that handles buffing.  If you want to prevent a Trinity nerf, illustrate to them why Trinity is fine as-is.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Arkvold

[leojst]

6 minutes ago, harbingerofdawn said:

If i'm reading this right, you're complaining about one frame that's used regularly and is apparently very cheese? Trin is a great suppler but outside of that yeah she ain't much of a damage dealer. So why are you going on about how you're 'prepared strategically' for every mission? Sure Trin can heal (so can oberon, nekros, chroma kinda, inaros and equinox) and give energy (nekros, hydroid with his ult augment on drops, harrow, and limbo) but what she lack can be filled with said randoms. So complaining about a talked subject isn't helping nobody (ironic I've completely contradicted myself). Just because you always got a set team doesn't make you top dog. I've played since Excalibur prime's prime access and always played with randoms, and let me tell ya depending on the difficulty and reward of the mission. Those randoms are often pretty damn helpful when you're under prepared. BTW the reason people often try to find perfect builds is to make the most out of the said frame/weapon. Lastly, nerfing isn't because someone wants to wreck your all so perfect build, it's because DE has noticed a large unbalance in the frame and tries to even out the playing field for all players. (if you're reading this i'm not mad or salty or anything i'm just speaking my opinion)

like i said i dont really play with her all that often and atlas can also get drops but you know that will be over looked look idc about an ult build i play for fun. to rework my forma for a skill rework is not fun aka ash is gonna take some time. i dont really care why you play with randoms and excal was S#&$ back when it came out its not like i forgot so saying you have excal prime has no merit. and de nerfs most often come when asked chroma kinda needed

[leojst]

8 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

The only people who can nerf your frame is DE.

People can scream and cry and whine all they want, but unless DE agrees with them, your 'frame is safe.  If you want to keep a waframe from being nerfed, you should make your case to DE - not to other players.  Rather than complaining about the people complaining about your 'frame, look at why DE would be interested in changing your 'frame, and how they intend to change your 'frame, and address that.  Complaining about complainers is redundant.

For example, look at the Ash bladestorm nerf.  There was a lot of outcry about Ash being able to hit 4 and kill a room.  There were complaints from Ash players about their inability to avoid wasting all their attacks on Ancient Disruptors and Healers that they had no chance of killing.

So how did Ash get nerfed?  DE made Ash's Bladestorm require more involvement than just standing in a pack of enemies and hitting 4 and grabbing a sandwich.  They made it so you could actively pick which enemies Bladestorm attacks and which it doesn't.

Now, this alone would've made Bladestorm a lot more tolerable, but DE also did two other nerfs to Bladestorm that made it irritating to use.  First, they made the targeting effect a channelled ability that eats energy for every target placed.  As a result, Bladestorm has a variable energy cost and costs more for the same number of hits.  Second, Bladestorm now takes a lot more time to target, especially if you're attempting any sort of precision about what you're hitting and how many times.  During this time, some other player is probably going to hit one button and destroy them, wasting your effort.

So right now, Bladestorm is over-nerfed, at least by player standpoint.  DE, however, has not provided any indication that they feel Ash is weak.  So, until DE feels that Ash is over-nerfed, Bladestorm will remain in the state that it's in.

See how this works?  It's DE that handles nerfing, and DE that handles buffing.  If you want to prevent a Trinity nerf, illustrate to them why Trinity is fine as-is.

i dont really care what they do with trinity and most nerf are community provoked as well as buffs remember excal people cried for excal buffs and he got them. yes its their choice but we created the the yes or no question and they aways answered well almost aways

[Lukkiete]

1 hour ago, leojst said:

most people never played her right thats why it took 3 years and like 5 nerfs later to say trinity is OP AGAIN.

Heh.

 

1 hour ago, leojst said:

but she lost her survivability

Haha.

 

1 hour ago, leojst said:

and will continue to see one trick ponies and come to the forums talking about whats "OP".

Hahahaha! GL HF!

[(PSN)abbacephas]

It's not even Wednesday yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#NerfTrinity 

[Arkvold]

27 minutes ago, leojst said:

... but we created the the yes or no question and they aways answered well almost aways

We've asked for universal vacuum.  We've never gotten it.  DE has adamantly refused to bow to player desire here, no matter how eloquently the point's been put before them.  DE has both discussed and made other changes to vacuum, such as making it partially inherent on sentinels, or making the mod universally available to sentinels.  Yet actual universal vacuum has never happened.

Nobody ever asked for channeled powers to deny energy regeneration, yet that happened.  Now channeled powers prevent energy recovery from non-pickup sources.  This put a wrench in a lot of people's frames.

Many people have asked for a nerf to the Tonkor, but I can't recall a single person who asked for it to deal normal self-damage as per other explosive weapons.  Yet that's what happened to it (if you know of an instance of this, feel free to correct me, but do provide a link to the post).

Many have asked for the Synoid Simulor nerf to be reverted.  DE has refused to do it.

I can think of numerous other occasions where nerfs or buffs have been requested by the community, yet nothing's happened, or something happened contrary to what the community cried out for. or DE's made a change that nobody ever complained about.

The community can raise the question, but unless DE decides to answer, where the question came from is irrelevant.

[SeaUrchins]

2 hours ago, leojst said:

most people never played her right

Oh, so they forgot to PM you and ask how to play the game. You're not the boss of players to tell how to use frames, take a hike.

[Archwizard]

4 hours ago, leojst said:

most people never played her right thats why it took 3 years and like 5 nerfs later to say trinity is OP AGAIN.

if their was an oversight it was on the players side not the devs. because the community never seems to notice all the frames that have "OP Abilities" till someone holds their hand and shows them how to use it or they see it all the time. instead of finding their own play style they jump on the way other people play the game. i have my own way of playing my frames and all my frames are teamed focused because i have a team unlike people who play with randoms and will continue to see one trick ponies and come to the forums talking about whats "OP". my squad plays with all their frames abilities to benefit the team and you can ask any good player about their squad cause randoms don't make the best team. so if you are in a clan find 7 people you can team up with and plan out your mission to get the most out of it.

Uh...

2 hours ago, leojst said:

like i said i dont really play with her all that often

2 hours ago, leojst said:

i dont really care what they do with trinity

... huh.

You seem quite passionate about the subject for someone who claims not to care.

As Arkvold was saying: A frame isn't overpowered because of the way the community uses it, or just because a handful of 'elite' players said it was.
It's overpowered because of the way the frame was designed and released to the players, such that its abilities could be realistically exploited in ways that alter the meta of the game.
It's used by 'elite' players as part of the meta because it's overpowered.

Trinity is one such example. The developers plainly stated this last Tennocon that she was originally designed to be the only healer in the game - and that design has irresponsibly held over through the release of other healers like Nekros, Oberon, Haven Limbo, Heat Chroma, Night Equinox, Nezha, Inaros, Nidus, and now Harrow. She doesn't simply exceed them all as a support unit; she completely removes the intended limitations of Health and Energy via the ability to instantly and effortlessly top both off for the whole team, without drawbacks.

Yes, you may not be one of the players who uses her to completely remove challenge from the game, but you would be missing the point to argue that. The reality is that Trinity is capable of a lot more than you use her for, and the community generally works to use a frame to its fullest.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Archwizard

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 hours ago, Arkvold said:

Many have asked for the Synoid Simulor nerf to be reverted.  DE has refused to do it.

while it's not in-line with this topic, I'm gonna say that's only a good thing: if anything, Synoid Simulor should've been hit harder, I still get flashbacks of goddamn Miragulor builds blitzing through everything with impunity, with ridiculously bright coloured energy that makes it impossible to see beyond the Orb spam, and they NEVER remember to detonate orbs that have Power Cells attracted to them, so we have to wait until the orb goes on it's own... it's why i don't PUG anymore unless I have to.

regarding Trinity though, I believe she's fine where she is, as she sacrifices nearly all of her Offense for team support. I prefer to use Harrow because I like to kill AND support the team where possible, but we're all different at the end of the day.