Loki, And The Tricky Act Of Balancing His Powers.

[Flammenwerfer35]

old thread, game has changed

Edited November 17, 2013 by Flammenwerfer35

[Feldgrep]

He is beginner for people who want to play hard mode, or rely on guns to get kills.

[Cleesus]

his ult should spawn like 3-4 decoys that can move around and are invulnerable for like 15-30 seconds. I think that would be a cool ult that fits  him but maybe thats just me.

[FemaleSniper86]

He is beginner for people who want to play hard mode, or rely on guns to get kills.

 

That was the Point. Sure.

 

But....

 

All those newbies coming to the game, Reading "advanced players" Thinks - "Hell Yeah! I'm gonna go for that one!" -- and then they end up spamming the teleport button and annoy all the the other players coz they keep dying wih their bad weapons and poor playstyle for exactly that - an advanced warframe.

Do we need more complaints about teleportings and rushing Lokis? Isn't it enough?

 

 

 

I do agree that Loki shouldn't be a starter frame.

However, I disagree about making the Trinity a starter frame. I see your Point, Flammenwerfer35, but she, like Loki, is an advanced warframe since she basically has no attacks, same as Loki. He has Decoy and Disarm, she has Link. But I have personally never been as frustrated as I was when I was trying to level my Trinity, coz I kept dying and dying (pretty annoying when you are the healer).

 

However I don't know what would be a better starter frame. It was Volt, but took him out for the Mag. Good done. The elemental frames have nothing to do as starter frames. But exchanging the Loki, have no idea.

Edited July 19, 2013 by FemaleSniper86

[Gio21]

for his ulti I was thinking something like enemy weaps explode so it does some dmg bit the stun idea is very good also

[fatpig84]

Fix Radial Disable.

Let it ignore line of sight will make it much much more powerful.

Currently the spell is gimped by LOS.

 

Most AOE frames can actually hit above and below, I mean why should Loki be constraint by a wall ?

Stunning and slowing the enemy would be an icing on the cake, but not necessarily needed if Radial Disable can be used as its greatest potential.

[theammostore]

Fix Radial Disable.

Let it ignore line of sight will make it much much more powerful.

Currently the spell is gimped by LOS.

 

Most AOE frames can actually hit above and below, I mean why should Loki be constraint by a wall ?

Stunning and slowing the enemy would be an icing on the cake, but not necessarily needed if Radial Disable can be used as its greatest potential.

I hit people on other sides of walls with it.

 

for his ulti I was thinking something like enemy weaps explode so it does some dmg bit the stun idea is very good also

No. Loki should never do damage directly.

 

OP, I like this suggestion, I would like to suggest though, that we do not put Trinity as the third, and instead put Volt in his place. Excalibur would be that standard damage dealer, Mag is the utility and team support, and Volt would be the true mage. Then swap Loki and Mag's plat prices.

 

Loki should be something we work up to, a challenge of our abilities both irl and in game, a test to the player basically stating 'do you think you can do this properly?' Right now, offfering him up as a starter is just throwing some new players into the deep end and watching to see if they sink or swim.

 

If these were my suggestions, I would say have ST do knockback/stagger on enemies at both positions. So where you end up and where you came from. I think that would help make that ability not so...eh. Also, Radial Disarm, a good stun for a few seconds no matter the race. Infested just lost some dangerous bits and pieces on their bodies from seemingly one guy. They would be confused as those pieces grew back slowly.

[Ferriwind]

Decoy is actually ok, for some reason it's able to take a lot of hits from lvl 30-40 infested. But, it also gets drilled by lvl 1 Grineer with Grakatas... I think there were some secret changes to Decoy which limit the damage it takes from one shot. Either that or I'm hallucinating..Xd

 

I figured the best way to balance Loki is to let him spawn more than 1 Decoy at a time. That or a radial crowd control when the Decoy expires. Right now, Decoy's aggro is just barely manageable. You also can't gauge when the Decoy will be destroyed, allowing for the possibility of you getting nuked by enemy focus fire.

 

Invisibility gives him mobility more than anything(especially at high levels), letting him move freely in the battlefield.

 

Switch Teleport isn't the most useful skill. You can teleport almost anywhere with the Decoy+Tele combo, but, honestly, there is no place you really need to be where you can't get to through normal means. You don't need it to help revive a teammate because you have Invisibility and downed players don't aggro mobs. The one situation where you need it might be when there is an infested toxic around(but I heard you take poison damage if you switch with one). Switch Teleing an enemy is almost useless as well.

 

His ultimate is a great cc ability for Corpus and Grineer. The effectiveness against these two factions make up for it being a mosquito bite against infested and bosses.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Stygi

[BigBadHunkyDaddy]

I really like the idea of Decoy+Switch Teleport causing a short stun, that's actually brilliant. I'd like even more if just switching places with not only decoy, but also with teammates and enemies cause the stun. Although, arguably, that might be a bit OP. Still, that'd make switching downed teammates in the middle of infested groups easier.

 

I also agree that Loki being one of the started frame isn't a great idea. Agree that he should be switched for a different frame. 

 

Regarding Radial Disarm, that's a bit tricky. I actually like the skill a lot, maybe it could use a tweak here and there but carefully. 

 

What I would like to see is a bit of a boost to the Decoy's HP to increase its survivability. Removing its HP altogether and making it invulnerable, but timed would probably make it OP. 

 

 

Fix Radial Disable.

Let it ignore line of sight will make it much much more powerful.

Currently the spell is gimped by LOS.

 

Most AOE frames can actually hit above and below, I mean why should Loki be constraint by a wall ?

Stunning and slowing the enemy would be an icing on the cake, but not necessarily needed if Radial Disable can be used as its greatest potential.

 

 

Yes, yes and yes. This. Make it work while in the air like Nova's abilities :3

Edited July 19, 2013 by Balerion84

[Cerebrawl]

Invis:

Perfect as is, don't touch it.

No it isn't. Make it hide our damned sentinel!

[SFkenny]

Loki was my starting frame. Picked him over Excalibur and never regretted it. Loki is a super-good frame if you know how to use him. Adding Shade and a full enemy cloaker makes him almost Yoshimitsu-esque in his ridiculously frenetic battle pace. Cloaking and uncloaking to deliver precise, deadly strikes, constantly using Decoy and Switch to keep enemies guessing, and using his superior agility to make a break for it if things get too hot. That's the essence of Loki and what makes him so damn fun to play.

Not a bad prospective changelist, though. I'd love a AOE stun effect with switch tele.

[Paradoxbomb]

I picked him at the start because I saw he could turn invisible and I thought to myself "FREAKIN' INVISIBLE!". Still, I guess he does take a while to get used to, you may have a point about the fact that he shouldn't be a starter frame, especially since he's the weakest frame and the difficulty just shot up.

 

As for the abilities, it would be nice to have a stun added to switch tele, or at the very least disorient any enemies to teleport next you so you have time to get your bearing before having 10 enemies immediately fire on you. It would be really sweet if the enemy you switched with became a "decoy" for a very brief moment of time, so enemies would shoot him for a second or two before turning back to you.

 

For Radial Disarm, I'd be nice if it had an effect on heavy enemies' shield and/or armor as well, Cause while they are significantly less dangerous without their guns, it still takes like an hour to chop through them (and they still hit pretty damn hard). Against the infested, I heard people suggest it should detonate runners, which I kinda agree with, as it would make it worlds more useful against them.

 

He's not the easiest class in the game to use, but that's why we love him. Glad to see someone who doesn't want to completely replace his loadout.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Paradoxbomb

[Lumireaver]

Could've sworn there was a thread just like this yesterday... Can't seem to find it though.

 

Anyhow, since the devs aren't adverse to making Loki do damage anymore the obvious course of action is to make his decoys explode (into a maelstrom of confetti and glitter).

[Cerebrawl]

Agreed that he shouldn't be a starter frame(replace him with Ash for starter frame choice). I sort of wish I'd picked Excalibur, if only because Loki is(was?) much easier to farm.

[FemaleSniper86]

Agreed that he shouldn't be a starter frame(replace him with Ash for starter frame choice). I sort of wish I'd picked Excalibur, if only because Loki is(was?) much easier to farm.

 

The Ash? Are you kidding me? You wanna put one of the most awesome frames as a starting frame? No way.

We already have one damage dealer as starting frame - Excalibur.

You can't put two of them as starting frames, that would be overkill.

 

Ash should be worked for, coz he is a good frame, way better than most frames out there coz his abilities are offensive instead of supportive.

Edited July 19, 2013 by FemaleSniper86

[ElfoGames]

yes...

[IcarusNine]

You might as well make the decoy invulnerable.

A. It's already nearly invulnerable vs. infested as is.

B. It doesn't seem to affect all enemies, or even permanently affix their attention.

C. It can't be more game-beaking than chaos, bastille, or snow globe.

 

Then again, maybe they'll nerf those three and everyone will be unhappy.

 

I could see making Ash a starter frame, but given how many people want to farm Titania, I'd imagine the Ash bundle sells like hotcakes compared to the rest of the warframes.  Volt might be a better option.  A direct damage caster would be a decent complement to Excal's melee fighter and Mag's crowd control.  Plus he's been a starter frame before...

[Numot]

Volt would have to be reworked into a viable frame to bring him back as a starter frame. Ash...just no, considering Loki is pretty awesome and he gets some durp thread every day about how things like radial disarm suck (when it is pretty awesome), I rather not see a rising amount of silly pointless threads about Ash's abilities when he already has plenty of those.

 

Could've sworn there was a thread just like this yesterday... Can't seem to find it though.

Every day there's a thread like this.

 

Loki is fine, he rewards creative play. Most people are not creative, thus they are going to think he's bad and needs some serious work. The only thing he should have is get decoy to scale a bit based on enemy levels so it doesn't get blown up immediately by the Grineer and Corpus.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Numot

[iCRIHFIELD]

I picked Loki as my Starter frame not because he has "advanced" in his description, but because he looked like a hammerhead and sharks are cool.

He's my favorite frame by far, and I'm extrememly pleased with the way DE has handled him.

 

However, to be honest Loki's abilities and play style don't completely live up to his namesake at the moment. 

 

I started a thread some time back about this.

I think his switch teleport should confuse and stun enemies of course, but if you're taking fire and switch with an enemy then that enemy(residing where you used to) will be taking fire from allies.

 

Switch teleport should be able to work on destructible inanimate objects such as explosive barrels and destructible containers.

Decoy pulls a lot of aggro compared to other decoy-esque abilities so I think that it is fine.

Invisibility should cloak sentinel.

Radial Disarm is fine as is.

Loki is not about direct damage abilities but about battlefield control and manipulation. Loki players should not expect to deal the most damage in a mission.

Like others have mentioned Loki is about being creative and thinking on your feet, but I personally feel like his abilities leave a bit more to be desired in the realm of creative play.

[Dasmir]

He is beginner for people who want to play hard mode, or rely on guns to get kills.

 

He is very viable at end game content where radial disarm shines against corpus/grienners over level 100

 

since all his skills are only for utility he is viable pretty much at any phase of the game, best warframe for any newie

Edited July 20, 2013 by Dasmir

[LasersGoPewPew]

make decoys explode doing X damage to enemies in Y radius on death, suddenly the decoy can do a little something extra that can help at late game while letting him still do his job as battlefield manipulator.

[arch111]

I picked loki for invisibility, and are playing now as first frame.

The thing is, radial disarm cost to much. Teleport needs stretch, still havent found.

Never use teleport, feel it should be replaced or be a teleporter if the grapplehook becomes a reality.

I see Loki as a fast killer, using decois and invis to fool enemies.

The radial disarm may be good later, but now i fibd it useless most of the time.

Why? I thought i would be able to use my swords like a blademaster, why else disarm them?

In my mind Loki should have a mod focused on melee

Or make his other powers better.

Besides, the new ancients and heavys ignored my

Invisibility on an alert. As for radial disarm with the mass of spawns it was like throwing paper towls at the infested.

[mhyr1104]

The Radial Disarm allows you to go into a melee combat instead of a shoot out, the problem with melees are the fact that people can shoot you but with Radial Disarm, this is negated. It's also Loki's ULTIMATE skill (in a way) therefore should cost 100 energy like all other frames, if you don't like it, forma that slot into another polarity

[Troublechutor]

How many active loki threads to we need?

 

Jeebuz.

[Phoenix86]

I'll post here too my suggestions:

 

- Invisibility: now cloaks the sentinel too

- Radial Disarm: goes through walls, covers, etc (ignore LoS like many other Ults)... add a stun effect 1-5 seconds

- Switch Teleport: after switching with the enemy, it will have your same aspect and the enemies will shoot him thinking it's you!! (for 1-5 seconds)

 

the last one would perfectly suite the Loki theme imho