The Ultimate Solution to Get Rid of the Serration Mod

[DEADSHOT456]

Just now, Circle_of_Psi said:

A bit sharp, mind you, but I've got to agree with you DEADSHOT, this will only benefit founders, nothing more.

Alteast how I see it, sure Etile players, high MR, will also be the same, but there always that extra MR/XP, that Founders will have.

I have nothing against Founders or players who spend money. If anything, I appreciate that because they generate revenue to keep the business. What I do not like is when those people look down on free players as if they are some lords and free players are some low born slave.

Just as much a F2P game needs paying players, it needs free players as well. Because like it or not, number of free players are much more than paying players in a F2P game and these free players prevent the playerbase from dying.

Yes, I was a bit sharp, but then again, I won't change my view on the fact that OP said that people have issues if they play a F2P game completely for free.

[Circle_of_Psi]

27 minutes ago, KavasMasta said:

1. MR Ranking: This needs to be much easier, no more "24h" waiting, no more "If you fail, you fail". Allow us to do the test and be done with MR.

tbh this erks the crap out of me and should be reduced to like 8 hours or something.

2. Founders Items: All XP, removed, period. no question. 

meh we payed $100 early on in the game to get it started i think we earned the extra 10k mastery thats just me

the idea that they completely remove ways to get items like the braton vandal it was only available for 3 days for 1 credit the weekend before i started (btw this was closed beta and it took 3 days to get into it) does kinna annoy me but the problem with it is is the people that already got it to thirty could lose their mastery rank and thats a HUGE nono.

I guess, but a lot of founders will always be on the top "Etile" and no one will like that, period.

Cuz, it pretty much pays to win, at that point or "already paid", We don'#t need to boost the Founder's ego more.

Not got anything else on this topic, sorry, but hey sound idea never the less, but sounds like a lot don't agree, so...

[KavasMasta]

2 minutes ago, DEADSHOT456 said:

No it doesn't. Before you put forward an argument, be sure to check if you yourself have the right info.

  Reveal hidden contents

And the below is not hard for a MR5 player. While your method would give an MR5 only +50%, even a R8 Serration will give 135%. And that damage is needed. +50% will do nothing very soon. Sooner than you can even realise.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Who told you that?

If a whole Damage 2.0 can happen, so can that. It is nothing hard to balance out the low level gameplay to match the progression.

Unfortunately, thats your OPINION. Gameplay designs are not supposed to be based on opinions, as simple as that.

Yes, most of those require MR5 or MR6. The maximum you could show for a frame was MR7, thats Titania. However, going to MR5 isnt that hard. The problem starts when your logic is followed. According to your idea, MR5 will get +50% damage. That won't do S#&$ in the later parts.

And I haven't seen you solve the paradox I told you about in my previous post.

While the present MR locks do not interfere with your damage progression, your method does.

Right now, a new player can work on ranking up the Serration on Boltor or Braton to actually gather resources from the higher level star chart missions to build new weapons.

Tell me again how the F will a new player gather resource to build new weapons in the first place if they can not take on the high level planets?

Are you even understanding the paradox here?

In your 'fabulous' method, new players can not get damage increase unless they build other weapons, but to build most other weapons, they need the damage to be able to collect resources from later planets. That is a paradox right there. I don't know how else am I supposed to make you understand that.

50 plat will give a new player 1 frame and 4 weapon slots or 2 frame slots or 8 weapons slots. The highest MR points they can get from that is 24k+12k from 2 starting frame slot+18k from starting 6 weapon slots.

Thats a total of 54k MR points.

With 54k MR points, they would be only MR4, meaning +40% damage bonus. Since MR5 needs 62.5k MR points.

I hope you realise why people are against your idea with the below screenshot -

  Reveal hidden contents

Any sane player would prefer spending 7k credits and 140 Endo to get +60% damage over "building and ranking 2 frames and 14 weapons to get +40% damage"

So, yeah, your idea is beyond ridiculous and was put forward without even a little research.

 

 

No, I do not have issue if I need to play this game 100%. This is a classic example of elitism here and after this statement, I am not even going to bother with your useless idea.

There is a thing called 'Currency Rates'. Some people are not fortunate enough to be born in developed countries. That does not mean they are not allowed to play games.

The very reason they chose a F2P game is due to this fact. Because they might have time, but not enough money to spend on a game.

I don't know if you realize, but this statement is offensive and shows your ignorance about real world.

so it take 20k endo i admit i made ahuge mistake there but doest solve the fact it takes 40k endo to max out bot hornet strike and serration not including point blank and 1.8mil credits is still a large amount (and in my opinion another mastery lock) 

2. low rank masteries are easier to level up then high rank masteries similarly the serration takes much more to unlock then higher ones effectively creating the same effect as the modding

3. i made this post because it WONT need to COMPLETELY rebalence the game because that creates a huge amount of manpower needed this takes a few lines of code and some moving around.

4. new players cant get serration and have to get broken serration which is an even bigger waste of endo

5. the game gives you mastery ranks 0- 2 in the beginning with earth nodes and weapons 

6. players get the mastery by buying the mk1 weapons is a possibility there are 6 of them on top of the 8 ones that you can buy without building

7. sorry that games don't run on free players man i don't see any advertisements in game

if i missed anything please tell me im exausted rn

 

[KavasMasta]

also i have 5 friends that i helped getting though the ranks of this game since all of the endgame stuff i do is mastery locked or quest locked

so saying i'm "elitist" is an argument fallacy called strawman also calling me an elitist is irrelevant because I'm counter arguing all of your points and the fact that you have devolved into calling me an elitist is proof enough that you have no more counters to my point 

Edited August 10, 2017 by KavasMasta

[KavasMasta]

The only reason that people don't like this idea is because its a big change and it seem (WHEN IT REALLY ISNT) attacking lower mastery ranked players 

when in fact it IS ONLY HELPING THEM so I rest my case

[DEADSHOT456]

1 minute ago, KavasMasta said:

so it take 20k endo i admit i made ahuge mistake there but doest solve the fact it takes 40k endo to max out bot hornet strike and serration not including point blank and 1.8mil credits is still a large amount (and in my opinion another mastery lock) 

But it still is easier to just level up a Serration to Rank 6 or even 7 by spending just 2.5k Endo and 122k credits and get 120% damage instead of getting to MR5 by leveling that many weapons.

Same goes for Hornet Strike. You seems to forget the fact that new players do not need to max out Serration and Hornet Strike. Even a Rank 7 Serration at 120% damage is 3 times as powerful as someone at MR4 getting 40% damage.

6 minutes ago, KavasMasta said:

2. low rank masteries are easier to level up then high rank masteries similarly the serration takes much more to unlock then higher ones effectively creating the same effect as the modding

But low rank masteries are much harder to level up when compared to leveling up a low rank Serration.

I see you ignoring the simple fact that leveling up R4 Serration to R5 is 1000x easier than leveling from MR4 to MR5 and will give much more damage bonus.

8 minutes ago, KavasMasta said:

3. i made this post because it WONT need to COMPLETELY rebalence the game because that creates a huge amount of manpower needed this takes a few lines of code and some moving around.

It WILL need to REBALANCE the game since what you are essentially suggesting will make high MR players insanely OP.

10 minutes ago, KavasMasta said:

4. new players cant get serration and have to get broken serration which is an even bigger waste of endo

Please provide substantial proof that new players can not get serration. Can you?

Because by the looks of it, Serration is insanely common at T1 endless missions, couple with the fact that Scorpions drop it which are fairly common.

I can go so far to prove you that I am getting a Serration within 2-3 missions from low level missions.

So, stop doing baseless assumptions.

20 minutes ago, KavasMasta said:

5. the game gives you mastery ranks 0- 2 in the beginning with earth nodes and weapons 

Even then, they might barely cross MR5. Not helping your argument at all.

21 minutes ago, KavasMasta said:

6. players get the mastery by buying the mk1 weapons is a possibility there are 6 of them on top of the 8 ones that you can buy without building

Same as above, Might not be enough to cross the MR6 mark. And even if it did, its still +60% damage vs a Rank 7 Serration with +120%.

22 minutes ago, KavasMasta said:

7. sorry that games don't run on free players man i don't see any advertisements in game

Sorry, but free players keep the playerbase alive. That is the reason why P2W titles don't do well and Warframe is constantly among top 15 steam games. Because its fair to both type of players.

And also sorry, but you are not that important to decide how someone would play a F2P game.

8 minutes ago, KavasMasta said:

The only reason that people don't like this idea is because its a big change and it seem (WHEN IT REALLY ISNT) attacking lower mastery ranked players 

when in fact it IS ONLY HELPING THEM so I rest my case

No. The reason people do not like the idea is because it is not good.

Good job assuming every single person in the thread is stupid and you are the only one right because almost everyone said no to this idea.

I will end this discussing telling you a few things because I am tired -

• Next time, base your ideas after researching and comparing them, not on opinions and your idea of your own playstyle.
• Try not to stick to your own idea and be open to others' POV.
• Try not to assume every single person in the thread is wrong and you are the only one right. We are not stupid. We can differentiate between a good suggestion and a bad one.
• Try not to sound so arrogant by saying stuff like "If you play for free, you have issues". No, like it or not, there will be free players in a F2P title. Don't like it? You are welcome to play a AAA title.

Try these and maybe people will agree with you and might even upvote your posts. But with the present attitude you have, all the best.

[KavasMasta]

The fact that you are forcing players to max out serration is already an issue because the mod is mandatory which is the purpose of this argument or even ranking it up when you could put more creative mods into your weapon or even start building the status damage up

2. that's why i put up the idea of non linear damage increase on the mastery rank increase

3. not true at all considering that all players at endgame must have serration in order to do decent damage and keep up with the increasingly difficuly high waves of survival and people need to leave because there damage is not high enough is extremely annoying to me also refer to the mastery damage scales up with other players around you.

4. i will give the best farming locations on rotation c its 1.3% those are pretty much the same for all suvival excavation and spy missions basically a 1/10 chance of getting it 
on top of that if you're farming those you may as well be exp grinding but thats just me (those are on mercury and earth and there are some other places that drop it but have like a 6.09% chance

Spoiler

Excavation (T1, T2, T3)
Interception (T1, T2)

Rot B

Serration

Rare (9.09%)

Survival (DS1, DS2, DS3, T1, T2, T3) 

Rotation B

Serration

Rare (7.14%)

Spy (Lua, T1, T2)
Defense (DS)
Enemies:
Electric Crawler (0.17%)
Kuva Scorpion (0.22%)
Nauseous Crawler (0.33%)
Scorpion (0.22%)
Other:
Orokin Tower Containers

5. But at least you will have damage that will help you out without having to waste a mod slot increasing damage even more at lower ranks allowing you to put on things like fire rate and condi mods

6. assuming that you level at least 4 war frames you can easily break rank six (use the data provided in my topic)

7. you win that argument but the argument does oppose my argument at all.

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 hour ago, DEADSHOT456 said:

I have nothing against Founders or players who spend money. If anything, I appreciate that because they generate revenue to keep the business. What I do not like is when those people look down on free players as if they are some lords and free players are some low born slave.

Just as much a F2P game needs paying players, it needs free players as well. Because like it or not, number of free players are much more than paying players in a F2P game and these free players prevent the playerbase from dying.

Yes, I was a bit sharp, but then again, I won't change my view on the fact that OP said that people have issues if they play a F2P game completely for free.

Not to worry, its all good

[DEADSHOT456]

1 hour ago, KavasMasta said:

also i have 5 friends that i helped getting though the ranks of this game since all of the endgame stuff i do is mastery locked or quest locked

so saying i'm "elitist" is an argument fallacy called strawman also calling me an elitist is irrelevant because I'm counter arguing all of your points and the fact that you have devolved into calling me an elitist is proof enough that you have no more counters to my point 

First of all, you need a better understanding of what strawman means.

Now, I do not care if you helped 5 friends or 50 friends. The very fact that your statement belittles free players proves what I said was indeed true. And helping friends doesn't change that part.

As for countering my arguments, you haven't really countered any of my arguments neither have you solved the paradox I mentioned in 2 previous posts. As a matter of fact, you have not provided any actual counter-arguments to anyone in this thread as to why we should agree your idea is good. Everything points to the opposite. All you ever did in this thread is write the same stuff again and again for everyone that countered your idea with facts.

Thats not counter-argument. Thats just you sticking to your own ideas ignoring all the problems all of us have mentioned here. So, I don't even know why I am bothering to even reply. I guess I will just stop because no matter how much I and others tell you that your idea increases grind way too much, you are going to tell us that ranking up Serration is a big deal when it is clearly not and I know it because I have multiple accounts that I made in these 4 years to test out how DE changed the new player experience.

Edited August 10, 2017 by DEADSHOT456

[KavasMasta]

8 hours ago, DEADSHOT456 said:

By your method, a new player needs to max out 30 other weapons to get the fullest out of his/her early game weapon like Braton or Latron. This means that if the new player builds a Braton and Latron and a Boltor, every single of these weapons will be underpowered because the player hasn't maxed out a bunch of other weapons, and now since the player can not get damage from Serration, this will create a paradox. So, the player needs to craft more weapons to get a better Boltor, but without a better Boltor (s)he can not farm enough materials to get more weapons to get a better Boltor. Understand the paradox here?

1. it wont make them under-powered in fact it will steadily increase there damage as they rank up with what they give you in the begining you will hit mastery rank 2 which could (depending how DE would balance it) increase the damage by 20-60%

2. this actually makes them more powerful as it adds more slots for things that increase fire rate and status damage or even the status chance cc or accuracy

3. this actually makes the grind easier for mastery ranking because all weapons that you use (Even at Rank 0) gain the damage increase making mastery ranking up feel much more satisfying

besides the fact you would only need the amount of weapons and warframes that i said in the spoiler

1 hour ago, DEADSHOT456 said:

I have nothing against Founders or players who spend money. If anything, I appreciate that because they generate revenue to keep the business. What I do not like is when those people look down on free players as if they are some lords and free players are some low born slave.

Just as much a F2P game needs paying players, it needs free players as well. Because like it or not, number of free players are much more than paying players in a F2P game and these free players prevent the playerbase from dying.

Yes, I was a bit sharp, but then again, I won't change my view on the fact that OP said that people have issues if they play a F2P game completely for free.

I do apologize and see the error of saying that free to play players aren't what make the game go you made a sound point that they keep the game populated but my system doesn't require people to buy more weapon slots it just requires them to recycle weapons more this was a choice that DE m,ade to make people fup a small amount of money to make the game less restraining

 

[KavasMasta]

33 minutes ago, DEADSHOT456 said:

First of all, you need a better understanding of what strawman means.

Now, I do not care if you helped 5 friends or 50 friends. The very fact that your statement belittles free players proves what I said was indeed true. And helping friends doesn't change that part.

As for countering my arguments, you haven't really countered any of my arguments neither have you solved the paradox I mentioned in 2 previous posts. As a matter of fact, you have not provided any actual counter-arguments to anyone in this thread as to why we should agree your idea is good. Everything points to the opposite. All you ever did in this thread is write the same stuff again and again for everyone that countered your idea with facts.

Thats not counter-argument. Thats just you sticking to your own ideas ignoring all the problems all of us have mentioned here. So, I don't even know why I am bothering to even reply. I guess I will just stop because no matter how much I and others tell you that your idea increases grind way too much, you are going to tell us that ranking up Serration is a big deal when it is clearly not and I know it because I have multiple accounts that I made in these 4 years to test out how DE changed the new player experience.

Meh just don't start throwing out things like "hes a founder he doesn't care about the new players" is my point.

hope that my previous reply fixed the paradox (sorry i never answered it because i thought my other replies would have solved it)

still doesn't increase the grind at all because the grind that you think is increasing is already in place.

i just don't like how i only have 7 mod slots and a slot for serration offering a solution to the big problem that is mandatory mods like point blank serration hornet strike and pressure point

when you feel like not giving up and coming back tell me why the current system is so much better then what i have proposed

thank you

 

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, KavasMasta said:

then it pisses of veteren players so no

Mastery rank doesnt mean anything and we shouldnt cater the needs of the most "elite" players.

Lets just make it lose effectiveness on that 3 planet by 28% for every mastery rank.

That way when they reach mr6 they are no longer affected by the damage decrease and should deal +165% damage everywhere.

[KavasMasta]

its similar to my idea of having a mastery rank higher player with you and it buffs your damage

40 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Mastery rank doesnt mean anything and we shouldnt cater the needs of the most "elite" players.

Lets just make it lose effectiveness on that 3 planet by 28% for every mastery rank.

That way when they reach mr6 they are no longer affected by the damage decrease and should deal +165% damage everywhere.

thats a really roundabout way of doing it i guess

Edited August 10, 2017 by KavasMasta

[jarvisthebold]

The last post makes sense to me and the original post as well.  I'm tired of having to put serration in every single build, instead of a reload mod or a status duration.   With seration gone we can actually start getting a lil more creative.

[Darkuhn]

I also like the idea of this Thread, but if Mastery Rank scaling would be a Thing it should max out with the same Stats as the previous Mods at MR 12 which is the Rank all the Syndicate Weapons are useable.

Regarding the Point about raising MR being harder then Fusing Mods DEADSHOT mentioned, that is right, but you can get to MR 18 in 18 Days with all the stuff that is available so it isn't a issue. 

About Founders Affinity advantage: At the start these 6k-12k seem a lot but when you haven't gotten 4 event Weapons your at the same point. With every new weapon released these exclusive Affinity becomes less important. 

DEADSHOTS Point about "free" players be getting the short end of the Stick is void, there are so many things a "free" Player can do, from cycling through weapons to sell prime parts for plat. They can even leave the fully build Weapons in the Foundry till thes want to level them. And to mention an Essential Part of Warframe is building weapons and Warframes and leveling them.

I believe the proposed Change would lead to more interesting builds for nearly every weapon. The only Problem would be Primed Pressure Point.

[Isais]

Instead of removing Serration (and the other damage/Multishot mods) i would prefer a system of sidegrade mods to give the players some more variety in their builds. 

At the current point, nobody playing "seriously" is using mods like "Hush", "Overview" and other utility mods. Why not? Because damage mods are more important and a weapon can hold only so many mods. Nothing new so far.

But what if instead of removing Serration and making the weapons scale with MR or whatever we could have several versions of the mods:

A: Serration 1 as it is. 10 Ranks, 165% Damage at max rank.

B: Serration 2 (with a better name ofc): 10 Ranks, 150% Damage at max rank + utility stat A

C Serration 3: 10 Ranks, 150% Damage + utility stat B

etc

This way players could sacrifice a little bit of damage (instead of the full 165%) and gain some utility while the option for full damage remains for those who want/need it. 

 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Just give a flat damage buff Equal to a maxed serration to all primaries, a maxed hornet strike to all secondaries... And poof!

[Shockwave-]

Who cares about serration? Who cares that it is "mandatory"

It's a credit sink, It's an endo sink, it's a slow progression to better weapons.

Why remove serration, put it on master and remove the slot from weapons so you have 7 sots? What difference does that REALLY make in the game?

[Zedasfogueiras]

I think they could make some sort of "weapon mastery tree"