I know it's been said 5,000 times, but...the Hema

[ShadowFel]

6 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

Here is a solution to make both DE and the OP happy:

When you create a clan, it is a Ghost clan for 10 people. Just give an option to downgrade the clan from Ghost to a Solo clan with the research cost cut to 1/10 (the same way the cost goes up 3x when you go from Ghost[10] to Shadow[30], but the other way around). 

The thing is, for the most part, Ghost clans actually have fairly manageable research requirements for solo clans.  Most of them are about on par with the cost for building a weapon, so research is essentially building the weapon twice.  I mean, look at the Javlok, a weapon that came out only 6 days before the Hema did.  Although the Detonite Ampule cost is high at 1,000, it's still largely reasonable, since about half the missions in the game drop Detonite Ampules at a reasonable rate.  It will take time, but it is possible to farm while farming other things.  The Hema just completely bucks that trend with its Mutagen Sample requirement, since you essentially have to farm for Mutagen Samples specifically because there's nowhere you can "incidentally" pick them up at any reasonable rate.  

13 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

That, or removing the keys for the Derelict so it is open to Fissure and Sorties. Unfortunately, DE refused to even buff the Mutagen drop rate on Eris, and no more word on the matter other than "it won't change".

Sadly, now that prime parts no longer drop in the Derelict, once a player has Nekros, the Octavia Neuroptics, both Kavat breeds, and, (if they don't want to farm invasions) Mesa, they have no real reason to do much farming in the Derelict.  Corrupted mods still exist, and with them vault runs, but running for vaults is always about speed, so very few resource drops are obtained.  And there are finite corrupted mods, and most of them aren't even that great.  The only reason to go in is to get mutagen samples (since all 3 other resources have other places to farm that don't consume keys with use), and...that's really not a good enough reason.  They need to do something about it to make it worth traveling to again for anyone who's sane enough that they aren't farming the Hema.

[KIREEK]

6 hours ago, Gamma745 said:

Because not everyone run Derelict everyday. They can have fun virtually everywhere else. Why lock it to just the Orokin Derelict?

 

Did 10 waves on akkad, found 2 samples, they also drop from the hive caches.

Akkad is a pretty common node for easy and simple exp/credits, as usual there is a difference between 0 samples and a few samples, 0 samples means no gameplay or effort, it's not really related with the difficulty of finding them, that's what non playing clan members will always tell you, they always find an escuse not to play.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

7 hours ago, ShadowFel said:

And herein lies a part of this problem.  There are some players who play so frequently and farm so hard that no resource has any value to them, so DE wants to raise resource requirements so that there is a chance of depleting their resource stores.  Then there are players just starting out, or who play more casually, who don't have excesses of every resource, and as a result, when faced with costs intended for people who have been storing up resources for years, can't hope to obtain these things except by playing for years or slogging through playing the same mission on the same tileset over and over and over.  There are only a few cases where there are these high resource drains, and the Hema is undeniably the worst I've seen, but each one of them is an insult to everyone who is either just starting or who don't have huge stockpiles of resources.  And the thing is, for many players who have large stockpiles, the increased costs STILL don't really give any value to their resources.  Kuva is probably the only example of a resource that no one has a stockpile for because it has been recently introduced, and, more importantly, it has consistent use.  And that's really what DE should do if they want to drain players' resources.  Not these high costs, but giving us opportunities to frequently use our resources for some advantage. That way, players who have their excessive resource totals will gradually burn through them, but players just starting out, or who don't farm hard, aren't virtually locked out of content.

And, reading some other responses, the high cost of the Hema may cause another problem: it's so high that people don't want to donate.  And why would they?  In a larger clan, the hundreds of thousands of Mutagen Samples can seem like an unattainable goal, and why should they put their resources toward a goal that they will never see the payoff of?  Better to save up their resources to donate to something that they will eventually obtain.

Strongly agree

I also think it would have made sense to allow players to deconstruct Mutagen Mass into Mutagen Samples (Crazy but I think I have more Mutagen Mass on my alt- than I do the Mutagen Samples used to create them, just because Invasions reward Mutagen Mass)*

Also long overdue but I swear we should be able to deploy extractors in the Void and Derelict. (Also they Extractor cap should have remained at 1 extractor for every 5 levels - would only be 6 extractors at MR30 ; Prime Access players would have 7 limit and Founders would be 8. Which still is not the entirety of star chart.

 

I thought DE was going to put Mutagen Sample drops in all Dark Sectors...would have made sense to me. 

 

Almost wish Hema or a Mutagen Sample BP required normal Nav Coordinates as those are just excess drops. 

I believe I am prepared for future Nitain and Tellurium research contributions. Not quite ready for Synthula contributions.

Synthula being the odd resource that High Level players seem to only farm on alert, but new players get them playing the low level star chart missions.

I guess some resource drops feel like throwing a dart at a wall at this point for implementation.

Edited August 31, 2017 by (PS4)MrNishi

[ShadowFel]

1 minute ago, KIREEK said:

Did 10 waves on akkad, found 2 samples, they also drop from the hive caches.

Akkad is a pretty common node for easy and simple exp/credits, as usual there is a difference between 0 samples and a few samples, 0 samples means no gameplay or effort, it's not really related with the difficulty of finding them, that's what non playing clan members will always tell you, they always find an escuse not to play.

Yes.  2 Samples.  Optimistically, if the spawn rate increases as you continue and they continue to drop with that frequency, that's about 5, maybe 6 for 20 waves, which will take longer because heavy units among the infested can be annoying.  Yeah, you get them, but for defense, which is one of the best ways to pile up loot usually, that's a pretty low drop rate, and it won't accumulate very quickly.  And, in my experience, I've done plenty of Akkad runs with a Nekros where I got 0 Samples, complete with gameplay and effort.  Now let's think about if your 10 wave Akkad run took...let's say 5 minutes?  And I need 4,350 samples?  That's still 190 hours of Akkad.  And as for the caches...you have a relatively small chance at 3 samples once per run, in my experience, a run that can easily take about 20 minutes if not more depending on how well the caches are hidden, and involves dealing with ever increasing numbers of infested and some potentially quite irritating map modifications.  From containers, you'll also maybe get 1, maybe 2 per run.  So you get 1-5 for at least 20 minutes of effort.  Akkad much is better, and Orokin Derelicts are much, much better.  And Derelicts are still rather low.  

I'd also like to remind you that I am the only member of my clan.  I'm not worried about clanmates holding out because there are no clanmates.  I'm not lying to myself and holding out resources on myself.  I'm not running some inane Jekyll and Hyde charade.  

[KIREEK]

I was quoting another player, in a solo clan things are different, my point is that after a great deal of time, possibly doing countless akkad missions, if a clan member tells you they have no samples to spare, then that's bs.

[-Temp0-]

2 hours ago, KIREEK said:

I was quoting another player, in a solo clan things are different, my point is that after a great deal of time, possibly doing countless akkad missions, if a clan member tells you they have no samples to spare, then that's bs.

The only thing that is bs here is thinking that just because it drops in quantities of 1-2 per mission/wave on some other misisions your clanmates will donate or will have the will to donate them to you. And how fcn long exactly do you think it will take if it took me for example playing for 2,5 years and 2000 hours of gameplay without hunting for them specifically to get 1500 of them in total? Not to mention you can't micromanage your clanmates like that, they can refuse to donate without any explanation all it takes is to say "no" because they don't owe you anything, they can have other plans for their resources.

And as the time goes, everyone will forget about the Hema and have even less reasons or will to farm for it or donate it.

[Buff00n]

Actually, between two threads it's been said 5730 times ;)

 

On 8/30/2017 at 11:46 AM, ShadowFel said:

I know that there are some people out there who have hundreds of thousands of Mutagen Samples because they've been playing for a very long time, and for those people, that many is just a drop in the pond.  

Nobody has hundreds of thousands of Mutagen Samples.  I've played a ton of Derelict over the years, back when ODD and ODS dropped prime parts, and I was still a little bit short of 5000 when Hema dropped.  Before Hema you didn't have to stockpile anywhere near that amount of Mutagen Samples, so nobody did.

The irony is that now I have obscene amounts of Nano-spores, Plastids, and Neurodes.  If one of the goals was to reduce resource stockpiling then that it was an utter failure on that count.

 

On 8/30/2017 at 11:46 AM, ShadowFel said:

I don't want to just buy the Hema with platinum, because if another Bio Lab research project comes up that requires the Hema to be researched, I have to buy that weapon too.

There are some clans out there who will let you join temporarily just to get the Hema.  And if in the future DE foolishly adds a weapon to the Bio lab with the Hema as its prerequisite, then we will gladly offer temporary membership for that weapon as well.  It's not a good solution, especially for people in solo clans who can't temporarily leave, but it's the only solution I have.

[ShadowFel]

38 minutes ago, Buff00n said:

There are some clans out there who will let you join temporarily just to get the Hema.  And if in the future DE foolishly adds a weapon to the Bio lab with the Hema as its prerequisite, then we will gladly offer temporary membership for that weapon as well.  It's not a good solution, especially for people in solo clans who can't temporarily leave, but it's the only solution I have.

The thing is, I am in a solo clan, and I'm sure there are plenty of other players who are as well.  And solo clans are probably the ones suffering the most from this (except perhaps for large clans that are dead except for only a few members, but from what I understand, DE has taken steps to at least partially alleviate that problem).

[Buff00n]

51 minutes ago, ShadowFel said:

The thing is, I am in a solo clan, and I'm sure there are plenty of other players who are as well.  And solo clans are probably the ones suffering the most from this (except perhaps for large clans that are dead except for only a few members, but from what I understand, DE has taken steps to at least partially alleviate that problem).

Yeah, fair enough.  Solo clans are in a tough spot, and with the first clan-based event after the Hema dropped (Pacifist Defect), the reward structure strongly implied that spot was going to get even tougher.  They've softened a bit since then; the last event (Ambulas Reborn) was friendlier to low-capacity clans.  But the Hema is an ongoing pain point.

Look at it like a long-term goal.  If you get a resource booster as a login or sortie reward, then go ahead and join/organize a few 40-wave ODD runs.  Otherwise, don't worry about it.  It's just a gun, and you'll get it eventually.