Rude Warfame Partners

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

On 9/22/2017 at 9:24 AM, MadHatHacker said:

I love the videos that they put out and I've personally seen how crazy hard he works to put out quality content on a regular basis

All other Youtubers work equally hard to bring out content. They isn't a unique case in the fact that you have to work to get videos out. They are unique in the fact that he has very little personality.

 

 

[ShadowStalker]

No offense but if you just beat around the bush and not tell what happened and who did what nothing will change just saying

[MadHatHacker]

8 hours ago, Helch0rn said:

Discussions are neccessary. Always!

Blocking one side from paticipating creates thought bubbles that tend to get more and more extreme over time

I could not agree more; it's why I tried to show both viewpoints, or at least my understanding of them. There are definitely problems on both sides of the fence here, and that's nobody's fault in particular; I just think it's important to look at it from each individual's perspective. I wasn't trying to imply that either one of those perspectives was infallible. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by MadHatHacker
Cleanup, yo

[KubrowTamer]

I have seen some of the tweets from the "Main Person of Topic" and if i was DE i would have already had his account banned. What he is basically doing is going out of his way on other media outlets to harass other players because he can't get away with it in game. This should not be tolerated at all. If anything I'm pretty sure harassing other players is a violation anyways in or out of game should be treated the same and with the same standards. The problem is "Main Person of Topic" doesn't know how to state an opinion without acting like a dictator.

Edited September 22, 2017 by KubrowTamer

[Arugula420]

14 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I just wanted to point out that this is not a reason for DE to not act if they think a youtube partner is acting in a way that they feel doesn't properly represent their brand, but if you are worried about immediate harm to the game, it's reputation, or bringing in new people, keep in mind that most of these youtubers really get a very tiny amount of views in the grand scheme of things. 

Warframe is played by millions of people, but the most popular warframe youtubers most successful videos manage tens of thousands of views at best. 

A cursory glance at the youtube channel of the person in question, and they don't seem to break 10K most videos. And most of those views are going to be loyal fans that are that youtubers own base of people. In other words, the amount of people seeing this youtuber and potentially being negatively influenced is probably in the hundreds at best, maybe only in the tens. 

I hear what you're saying. That does bring me some comfort. Perhaps the amount of cases of new players being subjected to this hate is not as huge as I first surmised. But still is that acceptable that this person be allowed to profit off this game while they degrade and berate even a few players? And consider this; a player is new to the game and needs info, but is not yet familiar with navigating the wiki. Where do they go? They go to youtube to learn. Even though their views, relative to the total size of the community, may not be so many it does not mean that they are not having a negative impact on the player base, especially to new players. Is it acceptable that we let this hate represent our community to new players? Is it acceptable that we allow this hate at all? I just don't think so. In my opinion, he has to stop or he should not be a partner, because that is saying to everyone "this is who we are", and I think we as a community are better than that.  

[Arugula420]

12 hours ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Same. It's also not just different political views. He simply doesn't like anyone who doesn't agree with him word-for-word. The utter disrespect I've seen him show in his comment section just makes me ashamed to be playing the same game as him. He just belittles everyone no matter how politely they approached him with a different opinion.

I can't tell you how much I agree with this post. It really does just make me ashamed to play the same game, the disgusting way he treats players who disagree with him. It's so incredibly nauseating and infuriating. I just don't understand how he can treat people that way and think he's doing a good job of representing the community as a partner. It is truly mind boggling to me. 

[MadHatHacker]

On 9/22/2017 at 9:13 PM, KubrowTamer said:

When you work up a reputation for being vile and rude you should expect to be treated this way. If he didn't want people bashing him then he shouldn't give them ammo to do so in the first place by acting rude to everyone.

I'm not advocating for or excusing anyone, just saying that this is the inevitable result of two very different sections of the community consistently butting heads. Like, each one of these groups have a "one-true-Korea" mentality where they view themselves and their viewpoints as representative of the playerbase, and anyone who doesn't agree with them just doesn't know what's right for the game.

I'm not pointing fingers and I'm not justifying anyone's choices, just trying to say that the official forums/partners and Reddit represent very different sections of the community, and this isn't really a function of "Them vs Reddit" as it is "Disillusioned Reddit Vets vs Starry Eyed Warframe Enthusiasts". 

Both groups have different ideas about how to improve the game, and both groups view the other party's ideas as detrimental to Warframe's long term health. This is just a slightly more publicized example of an ongoing conflict. 

[Tachibana_Hibiki]

12 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Hmm seeing as how some posts are definitely not the same as they were a few days ago, it seems like someone at DE is going through this thread and editing out any direct mention of [CUT] which is laughably pointless since everyone knows who that “one obnoxious/self righteous Warframe partner” is.

Don’t know why they bother. 

Because community guidelines.

[TheGodofWiFi]

6 hours ago, Tachibana_Hibiki said:

Because community guidelines.

Oh okay so we can basically say everything about “that one obnoxious guy” but we can’t say his name even though everyone knows who that is. Makes sense.

I thought de were looking for community feedback on their partners. taking a “he-who-must-not-be-named” approach is pointless because everyone knows who you are talking about anyway

[Tachibana_Hibiki]

5 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Oh okay so we can basically say everything about “that one obnoxious gay guy” but we can’t say his name even though everyone knows who that is. Makes sense.

I thought de were looking for community feedback on their partners. taking a “he-who-must-not-be-named” approach is pointless because everyone knows who you are talking about anyway

That's what "don't name and shame" rule essentially is. You can't explicitly point out a specific user in negative context. Especially if the user is [insert FOTM personality/psyche/race/gender trait here], and it doesn't matter if that trait was not what was being criticized.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Tachibana_Hibiki

[Nidaria]

-snip-

This thread was already warned once, I expect it to get locked soon

Edited September 26, 2017 by Roominashum

[TheGodofWiFi]

6 hours ago, Tachibana_Hibiki said:

 That's what "don't name and shame" rule essentially is. 

Naming and shaming only works for people who are not known in the community. Try as much as you want but you can’t hide a warframe partner no matter if you use their name or not.

Even if you call them “that irish guy who likes spuds” or “that one who speaks like Microsoft Sara” everyone knows who you are talking about. So what is the point of removing names when everyone knows who you are talking about no matter what you refer to them as.

6 hours ago, Tachibana_Hibiki said:

You can't explicitly point out a specific user in negative context.

But everyone knows who you are talking about regardless whether you specfically mention them by name. 

 

6 hours ago, Tachibana_Hibiki said:

It doesn't matter if that trait was not what was being criticized.

They were being criticised because of the way they treat other people who don’t agree with him, which is to 

A: call them homophobes

B: call them stupid

C: go off on a rage using every belittling slur under the sun

D: all of the above

[Testostzzet]

Phoenix1992 already pointed out how claims of "DE subterfuge" don't really work for this thread, but I'm going to go ahead and throw in that turning a thread into a complaint sink about DE's moderation policies is probably the fastest way to derail the entire conversation and get this locked. Personally I'd rather the thread stay open so people can vent their frustration over the actions of sponsored individuals in a productive manner.

The only way to get DE to actually notice that some of the people they're supporting are actively detrimental to the community is if enough people state their concerns clearly and calmly. Personally, I'm a huge DE fanboy, but I also understand that they're a company and this is their forum and whispering about moderator conspiracy is going to get absolutely nowhere. There's no conspiracy, there's just... the rules.

This thread also isn't and shouldn't be a "witch hunt" over them. I'm a little guilty of that myself because he drives me up the goddamn wall and this is the first time I've said anything about it, but there are certainly other Warframe Partners that could use a second look. Personally I'm of the opinion that any time they start drama among themselves and start dragging the community into it, everyone involved should be removed from the program without exception. I recognize that's a little extreme, but I don't really think there's anything wrong with making them farm like the rest of us if they're going to be internet turds.

Ideally, I'd like to see an official statement from DE (when they have the time) regarding what they consider the "Warframe Partners" to represent and whether they have any intentions of clarifying how they expect them to act in a public manner. If DE doesn't really consider them a part of the community and is just using them as free-ish advertising, then I guess I won't really have anything to complain about- except that I think some of their choices for "ad hosts" are totally counter-productive.

I feel like I should also add that if DE/the mods were actually actively purging posts because of criticism of certain partners, all of my posts should basically have exploded by now. I was far from kind in speaking about them. There's likely another reason posts are getting removed, or you just need to word what you're saying a little more eloquently.

[user_85631]

Remember that if you have proper evidence of the warframe partner and a proper date and time, with a proper screenshot or video recording of the event, issues can be solved through support.

[(XBOX)ChappieDo]

Don't know about all the controversy going on but I never heard of Shy before this thread and she might have become my new favorite Warframe youtuber   So thanks for that.  (seriously people if you don't like the content why continue to watch it?)

[Tachibana_Hibiki]

23 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

-snip-

Sorry you wasted your time responding to my posts trying to explain the point I share to begin with. My only intent was to acknowledge that certain community guidelines do exist, and it doesn't matter if I disagree with them.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Tachibana_Hibiki
Long quote

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, Tavanaka said:

-snip-

It seems very counter-intuitive for DE to prune these types of threads as all it does is make people, as you said, angry and wary of posting any form of honest criticism again on here. I'd say that behaviour ironically makes people even more interested in finding information that's been edited out, thus creating an actual witchhunt.

Thanks for saying my post was good. I'm not going to make a blanket statement when asked about what I think about warframe partners. That doesn't help anyone.

[TheGodofWiFi]

10 minutes ago, Tachibana_Hibiki said:

Sorry you wasted your time responding to my posts trying to explain the point I share to begin with. My only intent was to acknowledge that certain community guidelines do exist, and it doesn't matter if I disagree with them.

My intent was to point out how useless the Naming and Shaming policiy is when talking about people who are famous within the community.

[DatDarkOne]

40 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

My intent was to point out how useless the Naming and Shaming policiy is when talking about people who are famous within the community.

Which is a very good point.  But I will admit that naming without shaming is allowed.  What I mean is that you can name anyone as long as it isn't in a negative light.  

I do admit that it could be quite hard to avoid the name/shame with a more famous person in the community should you have a disagreement with them.  

[TheGodofWiFi]

This is a critiscism thread. Criticism by it’s very nature is highlighting negative qualities of something which can be intrepreted as shaming. Consership does not belong on a thread like this as all it does is make de look like a Big Brother type of company who edits out any sort of negative feedback about their employees.

If I posted photo evidence of the users utterly disgusting behaviour on Twitter and his videos, it would probably be removed. 

[Unus]

We got our Intel from Boss Aidan that he's actually bothering to give person in question the once or twice over. Even if that's just placation, the ell else is there to say currently? What's keepin folks beatin the dead horse here?

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

4 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

My intent was to point out how useless the Naming and Shaming policiy is when talking about people who are famous within the community.

Except it isn't.  Naming isn't just giving a name.  If I said something along the lines of, "I can't say their name, but they use an Oberon Feyarch Skin glyph as their forum avatar, their name could be abbreviated as TGWF, and I am responding to them," I didn't actually name you, but I gave enough clues to know who I'm talking about.  Saying something like the name of their channel is the same as naming them.  It is possible to be generic about it, as the OP was, without giving enough details to know who it is that is being discussed.

1 hour ago, Unus said:

What's keepin folks beatin the dead horse here?

Yeah, this thread should be locked.

[Helch0rn]

3 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

This is a critiscism thread. Criticism by it’s very nature is highlighting negative qualities of something which can be intrepreted as shaming. Consership does not belong on a thread like this as all it does is make de look like a Big Brother type of company who edits out any sort of negative feedback about their employees.

That's pretty much how I see it.

DE is able to handle the criticism they get whenever they mess up and they have shown that they are able to learn from this criticism.

So I don't get why we are able to show our displeasure with any decision they make in the game but as soon as we criticise one of the people that represents their game to the public it's off limits

[aidan890]

Hey All,

I think this thread has run its course. As many of you probably remember, I was in here last week leaving some statements on the Warframe Partners program and while I felt the thread was generally healthy at that time, it has sort of devolved since then. Please go and find my previous post: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/846319-rude-warfame-partners/?do=findComment&comment=8994953 for more info on my thoughts/feelings on this topic, otherwise I don't think there is anything unique left that anyone can add here.

[DE]Aidan

Locking