so.....how long are we going to ignore cheese mechanics?

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

That Guy help me level up my gear whenever I forma it, so I don't have really much issue with him. I always go into a public match assuming everyone is That Guy,, so if I want a different experience, I will get someone else I trust to play with. I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest. Trust me, I get it, but power creep is a side effect of the community's response to new weapons always being "Why should I use this over my current weapon? This is useless. DE sucks. RIP Warframe/" Usually, "That Guy" would say that lol

 

"That Guy" probably did and is really proud of themselves...

In the process, the game got a player with a 5 forma'd weapon they don't know how to use or mod but probably runs around trying to be like "That Guy" long enough to eventually make it.

It's almost like "That Guy" laid eggs... If almost was exactly.

FWIW, power creep is inevitable in games with regular additions to them if they are persistent.

The only thing that keeps power creep from happening is that the game's developers have to choose to not let it occur and work to that end constantly.

DE didn't actively choose not to have power creep so we have power creep.

Complaining about it now is exactly equivalent to locking a barn after the horse has gotten out.

Crusading about it is equivalent to tilting at windmills.

Asking for nerfs because other players are enjoying themselves while impacting no one else's game play with it is like watching some monstrous hybrid of Mrs. Kravitz from Bewitched and Don Quixote... A well meaning busybody that's kinda ridiculous... but dangerously so.

"We should nerf the color black..."

"Wait...What?"

"It's the most heavily used color in the game..."

"So...?"

"Teal would get used more if black got nerfed."

It's a completely ridiculous premise until that "That Guy" gets involved...Because "That Guy" lends credence to it just by being the pitiless Edgelord that they are.

Suddenly the color Black gets nerfed because players were using it and red to create a meta.

 

Moral of the story?

It's always "That Guy".

or

...Don't be "That Guy".

or 

Just because you are seeing a tiger in your neighbor's house across the street isn't cause to go and attack it with the cops. 

 

 

[rudman88]

1. Is a game

-> play according how you like. Dont let other people decide how you play nor should you impose on how people should play their game.

 

2. Limitation

-> why are we complaining about the limit when the game is design to make you an immortal killing machine ?

 

3. Fruit of labour

-> Do you think is easy to make your warframe and weapon god like ?

-> getting the mod some people is so lucky they get it in 1 - 2 missions while others can be 30 - 50 mission to get 1 bloody mod. Can you at least be considerate of people labour to get it ? Just because you dont have it doesnt mean you need to deprive people from the benefit of their work.

-> i find this much more decent than playing other MMO that require you to get 100 rare ingredient and cost millions to upgrade 1 weapon.

 

4. Effect

-> How is their cheesing affect you in any way ?

you lost nothing. you can get resources and exp by just walking and following him.

why not you grow up and try to do better than him / her ?

Your goal is to be better or the best. Not pull every one down to your standard. This is purely selfish.

 

 

5. Fairness

-> did the game limit you until you cant be as good as other player ?

It doesnt, the game allows everyone to do what they like, to modify their frame and weapon as they like.

 

 

6. To play or not to play with abc

you can ignore that guy and u will never see him in your game any more. Serious, i played for years and i never see the guy i ignored in my game.

you can choose the long and hard road yourself.

Or even bring in more friends with low mmr to increase the burden on yourself ( keeping them alive in lvl 40 missions is quite fun )

 

 

[TheBrsrkr]

5 hours ago, Soketsu said:

No Brsrkr,

as always you only see your own truth, refusing all the other possible views on the subject, that why many people are tired to argue and ignore you in the end.

Of course I do that, because the other possible views are untenable for a multi-player game. This is not like talking about other types of balancing, such as for skill, for utility, for sheer enjoyment. This is a mechanical issue. 

 

An example of this, in Planetside 2 there's a big debate going on on whether to lower the amount of damage a headshot does on non sniper weapons. There are 2 sides on that issue. On the one hand, it's not easy to get headshots anyway, and players should be rewarded for getting good and practicing. It's not an easy thing to land consistent headshots on a moving enemy while also compensating for dozens of different recoil patterns  while under fire yourself. On the other hand, it's horrible for the new  experience, as there is no tiered battle, new player zone or real NPC practice in Planetside 2. They just drop you in wherever and you have to fight anyone there, be it a guy playing for an hour or a guy playing for 5 years. It also more than halves the time to kill of an already low time to kill, and feels completely unfair when you start shooting a guy and that guy has enough time to turn around and kill you in 5 shots while when the situation is reversed you can't do the same. This is a nuanced and complicated issue, any change to which has a widespread effect on the entire flow of the game,and should be handled with care. 

This is not an issue such as that. This is an issue between playing and not playing, a binary. I say that it is not acceptable for one player to be able to walk into a room, press 4 or whatever, and this completely resolves any enemy influence for the entire team. Others say that this is acceptable because it is a public game. I am not talking about whether it should occur in a public game or not, I am taking about if a player should ever be allowed to do this at all. It does not facilitate good multi-player play in any way. It is not a personal choice a player makes. Avoiding the issue altogether is not a solution to the issue. Not one person here could honestly tell me that telling people "if you don't like it don't play public games" encourages good gameplay in a team based multi-player shooter. Because it is not true. 

 

If any one person could answer the questions I ask without strawmanning me, without talking about things I didn't say, without ranting about it being a public game so anything goes when it doesn't matter if it happens publicly or privately, then we can have a discussion about what you think is right VS what I think is right. Until then, the forum will look upon both sides and decide who is right. 

[ZoneDymo]

You got yourself a poor game design when out of the 100 options the entire community picks between 5.
You got yourself good game design when its all distributed and plenty of players dont like A while others dont like B and so everything gets used.

Like the Synoid Simulor and Tonkor in the recent olden days, this slide whip stuff needs to go, asap.

Edited October 5, 2017 by ZoneDymo

[(XBOX)ThrobnBloodTube]

DE never really designed this game to be hard or require skill. Its a horde shooter you get your op weapons and destroy the world. The game is a power fantasy, till you get what you wanted then people complain that the game is to easy.

[ZoneDymo]

7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ThrobnBloodTube said:

DE never really designed this game to be hard or require skill. Its a horde shooter you get your op weapons and destroy the world. The game is a power fantasy, till you get what you wanted then people complain that the game is to easy.

Well you never want this, you want there to be a challenge till the end but also get more powerful but then get better rewards etc etc, thats how every RPG has worked ever :P
Also I would argue that old old warframe, as in Beta warframe, had a very decent level of challenge to it.

Over time it has been made into this horde shooter but in the olden days you had respect for your foes and the feel of the entire game was very different.... and yes.... I very much miss that ambiance of fighting a losing battle.

[Volinus7]

Warframe gives you xp bars to fill, but it's repetitive, boring and tiresome so some people validate cheese metas to grind faster, since player side become more cheesy enemies and difficulties design have to be as broken. 

Vicious cycle of Warframe in a nutshell. 

Or...

Cheese metas get nerfed, enemies get revised and XP bars get shortened... Whatever... 

[Acersecomic]

Warframe is a power fantasy. It's supposed to be OP.

[Aechmea]

17 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

Warframe is a power fantasy. It's supposed to be OP.

Warframe is a game and it should be balanced*

[Acersecomic]

39 minutes ago, Crimson-Tenno said:

Warframe is a game and it should be balanced*

Balance is what often ruins fun in games by trying to keep everything scaled to enemies or whatnot.
Warframe gives no S#&$s, it just has everything overpowered and we're all having fun. Warframe is a very fast game with fast movement mechanics. Combat should reflect that and it does so well.
No need for nerfs or anything. Just to balance weaker weapons to be on par with stronger ones so there is no meta. Power to the people. One of the reasons why I have so much fun with Warframe is its overpowered nature.

[Aechmea]

1 minute ago, Acersecomic said:

Balance is what often ruins fun in games by trying to keep everything scaled to enemies or whatnot.
Warframe gives no S#&$s, it just has everything overpowered and we're all having fun. Warframe is a very fast game with fast movement mechanics. Combat should reflect that and it does so well.
No need for nerfs or anything. Just to balance weaker weapons to be on par with stronger ones so there is no meta. Power to the people. One of the reasons why I have so much fun with Warframe is its overpowered nature.

it may be fun for you to use broken af weapons but not everyone likes it and telling other players to play solo won't solve the problems... this is a selfish way to play (Anti Co-OP). also, i don't think people should avoid other players by their playstyles in a CO-OP game

[Aechmea]

"there are a few weapons that have such a dominating effect in missions that co-operative missions essentially become solo." - @[DE]Rebecca

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

2 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

Warframe gives no S#&$s, it just has everything overpowered and we're all having fun.

pluralis majestatis?!

[(PSN)Crixus044]

2 hours ago, Crimson-Tenno said:

it may be fun for you to use broken af weapons but not everyone likes it and telling other players to play solo won't solve the problems... this is a selfish way to play (Anti Co-OP). also, i don't think people should avoid other players by their playstyles in a CO-OP game

The weapon isn't broken af per say, more like it's in the wrong mission. It's like bringing maxed out ember to a low level mission and playing with newbies with rank 0 mag/volt/excals. We'd say "If you would please take your maxed out OP gear to a mission that matches your power level, that'd be great thank you."

That's the solution I can give. Unless, you're just an A****** and love to ruin everyone else's experience.

[Gurpgork]

4 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

Warframe is a very fast game with fast movement mechanics. Combat should reflect that and it does so well.

Warframe can be very fast-paced and have fast movement mechanics without being mind-numbingly trivial. Enemies and players can all have low EHP relative to each other, so that the time to kill enemies is really low, but players can also get killed really quickly if they aren't careful. 

The problem that the OP is talking about isn't that Warframe is fast paced, it's that there are an increasing number of player mechanics that let us turn off the game entirely.

These things don't make the game any faster paced. In fact, chain-spamming Rhino Stomp or Invisibility or whatever else has the power to slow the game to an absolute crawl. If enemies pose no threat to you whatsoever, then can you really even say that the game is fast paced? If you're invisible or everything is basically suspended in a T pose, it doesn't matter if you're picking enemies off one at a time, or if you annihilate everything on the map at once, because there's no way for you to lose anyway.

In fact, getting rid of cheese mechanics could actually speed up Warframe's gameplay, because there would actually be a reason for us to pay attention to our enemies and constantly being on the move to avoid a gruesome death, rather than just occasionally pressing 4 when something moves. There wouldn't be any way for players to flat-out stop the game, so the game would stay fast. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Gurpgork

[Volinus7]

There you go 

Warframe tutorial for newbies lol.

 

[rudman88]

8 hours ago, Crimson-Tenno said:

it may be fun for you to use broken af weapons but not everyone likes it and telling other players to play solo won't solve the problems... this is a selfish way to play (Anti Co-OP). also, i don't think people should avoid other players by their playstyles in a CO-OP game

you called those guys selfish but isnt you much more selfish ? you are imposing how to play on the other 3 ?

if you want to be funny and draggy do it alone. That is called not being selfish as you dont be a burden to others

[Acersecomic]

17 hours ago, Crimson-Tenno said:

it may be fun for you to use broken af weapons but not everyone likes it and telling other players to play solo won't solve the problems... this is a selfish way to play (Anti Co-OP). also, i don't think people should avoid other players by their playstyles in a CO-OP game

Tactical shooters are in the other direction.

14 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

pluralis majestatis?!

mi casa es vuestra casa

12 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Warframe can be very fast-paced and have fast movement mechanics without being mind-numbingly trivial....
(lots of good arguments)
...rather than just occasionally pressing 4 when something moves. There wouldn't be any way for players to flat-out stop the game, so the game would stay fast. 

Fair point. Still, I wouldn't quite feel like a demented demi-god if we couldn't make it unfair to a ridiculous degree.

[Aechmea]

21 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

The weapon isn't broken af

NOT BROKEN! DON'T NERF PLS SPIN FUN

Edited October 6, 2017 by Crimson-Tenno
CLEM

[Volinus7]

7 hours ago, Crimson-Tenno said:

NOT BROKEN! DON'T NERF PLS SPIN FUN

Unsubstantial Warframe 

Available on iOS and Android 

Ninja Pay Fee

[TheBrsrkr]

28 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Unsubstantial Warframe 

Available on iOS and Android 

Ninja Pay Fee

 

28 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Unsubstantial Warframe 

Available on iOS and Android 

Ninja Pay Fee

Are these even real life.? 

[DrakoKnight48]

On 10/1/2017 at 8:29 PM, TheBrsrkr said:

This is kinda the "which came first, the chicken or the egg" things except that we know which actually came first. 

Doesn't matter which came first. Thing is we gotta deal with enemy cheese by combating it with cheesy methods. 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

10 hours ago, Crimson-Tenno said:

NOT BROKEN! DON'T NERF PLS SPIN FUN

I get where you're coming from, but you're confusing the power of the weapon for the power of the mechanic. This is where PC could learn a little bit from consoles. Slide Attacks with keyboards and more specifically, sliding macros have been an issue in-game for a very long time. I made a post that slide attacks should not be spammed and thus a delay or cooldown between slide attacks of .5 seconds would be good for the game. On console, it takes a LOT of effort to get at least 3 slide attacks per second. Considering how slide attacks deal 2x damage average for melee, this is 6x dps of a melee weapon, which is more than almost every stance in game in terms of dps boost. On PC, 8 to 9 slide attacks is very possible, dealing almost 20x dps of normal attacks vs. stance combos giving you 5x at most. This is just ridiculous. Thus, on console, we don't do this kind of cheese and at most, we do 2 per second so as to not get carpel tunnel. When I made that post with an idea for limiting slide attacks to 2 per second, I INSTANTLY got salt mail from the people like the guy in the video, cheeser crybabies that lose their minds over their broken tactics being taken away from them. I guarantee you, if slide attacks get a rework, you'll see a LOT less whip and polearm spammers. Also, endgame runs would become a LOT less cheesy. A team of 4 went 10 hours in an ODS. You'd think they're really good right? Nah they just create a barricade with Mantis Landing Craft Pods and spammed slide attacks into a wall. Thus, in my opinion, the true longest ODS run belongs to Orlando01 (Life of Rio) and his squad going 7 hours, and for solo, my 5 1/2 hour run ODS did not use any kind of cheese and I did it Pre-Second Dream, thus, I believe this deserves mechanic needs to go, but the weapon is fine.

Also, this is a captain vor assasination lol

[-YoRHa-]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

I get where you're coming from, but you're confusing the power of the weapon for the power of the mechanic. This is where PC could learn a little bit from consoles. Slide Attacks with keyboards and more specifically, sliding macros have been an issue in-game for a very long time. I made a post that slide attacks should not be spammed and thus a delay or cooldown between slide attacks of .5 seconds would be good for the game. On console, it takes a LOT of effort to get at least 3 slide attacks per second. Considering how slide attacks deal 2x damage average for melee, this is 6x dps of a melee weapon, which is more than almost every stance in game in terms of dps boost. On PC, 8 to 9 slide attacks is very possible, dealing almost 20x dps of normal attacks vs. stance combos giving you 5x at most. This is just ridiculous. Thus, on console, we don't do this kind of cheese and at most, we do 2 per second so as to not get carpel tunnel. When I made that post with an idea for limiting slide attacks to 2 per second, I INSTANTLY got salt mail from the people like the guy in the video, cheeser crybabies that lose their minds over their broken tactics being taken away from them. I guarantee you, if slide attacks get a rework, you'll see a LOT less whip and polearm spammers. Also, endgame runs would become a LOT less cheesy. A team of 4 went 10 hours in an ODS. You'd think they're really good right? Nah they just create a barricade with Mantis Landing Craft Pods and spammed slide attacks into a wall. Thus, in my opinion, the true longest ODS run belongs to Orlando01 (Life of Rio) and his squad going 7 hours, and for solo, my 5 1/2 hour run ODS did not use any kind of cheese and I did it Pre-Second Dream, thus, I believe this deserves mechanic needs to go, but the weapon is fine.

Also, this is a captain vor assasination lol

I agree that slide attacks need a delay and/or a stagger at the end of 3 consecutive slide attack spams, like the Cleaving Whirlwind spinning combo.

That is a Captain Vor Assassination Sortie(or Kuva Flood) by the way, since enemies are like lv80+.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

18 minutes ago, -YoRHa- said:

I agree that slide attacks need a delay and/or a stagger at the end of 3 consecutive slide attack spams, like the Cleaving Whirlwind spinning combo.

That is a Captain Vor Assassination Sortie(or Kuva Flood) by the way, since enemies are like lv80+.

Oh well that changes everything. Didn't see that, thanks for pointing it out. Well that just drives home the slide spam needs a cooldown request lol