I think the DE should take another look at Bladestorm

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

9 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Which makes one wonder why you oppose reworking it into a better designed ability that actually allows for build diversity and doesn't overlap with TP or have a broken cost.

"Don't fix what isn't broken"

[Nazrethim]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

"Don't fix what isn't broken"

But it IS broken, on many aspects. Already proven too.

What's your game Nigma?

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

10 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

But it IS broken, on many aspects. Already proven too.

What's your game Nigma?

An ability that can basically oneshot a group of lvl 100 enemies just by having steel charge on your frame, definitely needs something to keep players from abusing it. The high energy cost on bladestorm isn't broken, DE could easily lower it with a couple of number changes any time they want, but you know why they don't? Because balance reasons. You can't have a frame who has tanky stats, can potentially strip armor, go Invisible and use stealth multipiers, teleport and use CL, and destroy an entire room of enemies with invulnerability in sorties 3s without throwing in some drawbacks. 

Also build for efficiency, the thing every player who wants to use their abilities do. 

Sure new players can't make the best of bladestorm, but at their lvl anything they mark is guaranteed to die.

Edited October 4, 2017 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[Nazrethim]

16 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

An ability that can basically oneshot a group of lvl 100 enemies just by having steel charge on your frame, definitely needs something to keep players from abusing it. The high energy cost on bladestorm isn't broken, DE could easily lower it with a couple of number changes any time they want, but you know why they don't? Because balance reasons. You can't have a frame who has tanky stats, can potentially strip armor, go Invisible and use stealth multipiers, teleport and use CL, and destroy an entire room of enemies with invulnerability in sorties 3s without throwing in some drawbacks. 

Except that drawback is "having a pointless 4 in most situations". By the time a player gets all the sh*t required for BS to actually be worth using, s/he already has tools to deal with lvl100s much more efficienctly.

16 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

Also build for efficiency, the thing every player who wants to use their abilities do. 

I don't have Effi on any of my frames, yet I use my abilities without problem, I just don't abuse them. Efficiency allows for power spam and abuse, nerf that and suddently abilities that "seem" broken aren't at all. Case in point: Pre nerf Blade Storm.

16 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

Sure new players can't make the best of bladestorm, but at their lvl anything they mark is guaranteed to die.

At their level Shuriken outperforms Blade Storm, or literally anything at any level.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Except that drawback is "having a pointless 4 in most situations". By the time a player gets all the sh*t required for BS to actually be worth using, s/he already has tools to deal with lvl100s much more efficienctly

Yeah except those tools/weapons aren't as reliable/consistent due to ammo , armor/shield resistances and are mostly good at dealing with enemies one by one. Where as bladestorm will always deal it's full damage output no matter what enemy it is and with a good build bladestorm can take out groups of level 100 enemies faster than most high lvl viable weapons.

 

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

 I don't have Effi on any of my frames, yet I use my abilities without problem, I just don't abuse them. Efficiency allows for power spam and abuse, nerf that and suddently abilities that "seem" broken aren't at all. Case in point: Pre nerf Blade Storm

Hats off to you for being the 1% of players who don't use efficiency on any of their frames, maybe that explains why your having energy problems with bladestorm and is determined to make it into exalted blade's edger brother.

 

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

At their level Shuriken outperforms Blade Storm, or literally anything at any level

Not really.... A single shuriken deals 2000 finisher damage, while a single mark deals 9000 finisher damage. So if the player is fighting anything above lvl 30, bladestorm will oneshot the enemy where as shuriken will just cause them to die slowly. 

Edit: actually your probably right about shuriken being better at a new player's level, but that's mostly just because low lvl enemies have basically no health to survive the cast.

Edited October 5, 2017 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[Kagemitsukenshi]

BS just needs a mesa retical and its as good as new not OP either and fast enough to keep up with the games pace

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

Yeah except those tools/weapons aren't as reliable/consistent due to ammo , armor/shield resistances and are mostly good at dealing with enemies one by one. Where as bladestorm will always deal it's full damage output no matter what enemy it is and with a good build bladestorm can take out groups of 100 enemies faster than most high lvl viable weapons.

 

Hats off to you for being the 1% of players who don't use efficiency on any of their frames, maybe that explains why your having energy problems with bladestorm and is determined to make it into exalted blade's edger brother.

 

Not really.... A single shuriken deals 2000 finisher damage, while a single mark deals 9000 finisher damage. So if the player is fighting anything above lvl 30, bladestorm will oneshot the enemy where as shuriken will just cause them to die slowly. 

Edit: actually your probably right about shuriken being better at a new player's level, but that's mostly just because low lvl enemies have basically no health to survive the cast.

I find it hilarious that there is actually an argument about shuriken being more powerful than bladestorm. That speaks to the level of delusion going on here.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

I find it hilarious that there is actual an argument about shuriken being more powerful than bladestorm. That speaks to the level of delusion going on here.

Hey man, people will say anything to convince themselves that bladestorm's damage isn't worth the cast even tho it takes a single aura mod to make it sortie viable, but hey their loss.

[Kagemitsukenshi]

i think there talking about low level enemies and the speed at which they kill

4 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I find it hilarious that there is actual an argument about shuriken being more powerful than bladestorm. That speaks to the level of delusion going on here.

 

 

[Nazrethim]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

Hats off to you for being the 1% of players who don't use efficiency on any of their frames, maybe that explains why your having energy problems with bladestorm and is determined to make it into exalted blade's edger brother.

While I'm firmly on the "get him a stance ult and merge current bs with teleport to eliminate overlap" I actually think current BS can be saved with some mechanical upgrades and by toning down the ridiculous cost.

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

 

Edit: actually your probably right about shuriken being better at a new player's level, but that's mostly just because low lvl enemies have basically no health to survive the cast.

Yes, that's what I was talking about. Up to Mars-Ceres Shuriken oneshots anything and anything that isn't bleeds to death in 1-2s. Since it fires 2 shuriken that means for 25 energy you oneshot 2 enemies while BS would require 30 and take more time to do so.

 

38 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I find it hilarious that there is actually an argument about shuriken being more powerful than bladestorm. That speaks to the level of delusion going on here.

If ye bothered to pay any attention to what I wrote you would notice I said "at lower levels" which means "at levels where Shuriken will oneshot or nearly oneshot anything".

[(XBOX)Oussii]

15 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

 

If by "how to manage" you mean "get Arcane energize or strike, get an attack speed riven, get Primed Fury, get as much Efficiency as possible" then yes, he is easy to use.

I do not have Arcane energize on my ASH. I had strike but i removed it. Zenurik is enough (till now at least before POE).

My Ash will kill any enemy and is rarely down. it can save the day, any day, any week, any year :)

Players can nag all day long on the forum and write arguments as much as they want about nerfing and how to mark an enemy (which is btw extremely easy). it will not change the fact that, IMO, ASH is one of the most solid frames  in the game

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)Oussii said:

I do not have Arcane energize on my ASH. I had strike but i removed it. Zenurik is enough (till now at least before POE).

My Ash will kill any enemy and is rarely down. it can save the day, any day, any week, any year :)

Players can nag all day long on the forum and write arguments as much as they want about nerfing and how to mark an enemy (which is btw extremely easy). it will not change the fact that, IMO, ASH is one of the most solid frames  in the game

Ash is not even in the top ten for most solid frames in the game ..... try taking ash with a group squad of people that knows how to use their warframe. You can would have the least kills on the squad. Hell ash is barely endgame and that’s only cause of his augments 

[VoxGray]

On 10/2/2017 at 9:22 PM, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

-snip-

Fatal Teleport coupled with Covert Lethality one-shots anything. It's meant more as a backup against things like high-level Nox Eximus, stuff that you need to instakill due purely to how dangerous they make the battlefield as a whole.

As to the overall argument in this thread, I believe they should get rid of the vomit cam and locking Ash into place when using Bladestorm, instead letting his clones do the work. That aside, he's just about perfect. He's an all-rounder Frame, not meant to be the best at any single job, but to be versatile enough to handle just about any job. He's much like Oberon in that regard, which is where I think people have a problem. They compare these Frames to others who're better at a single role, and see them as lacking, without understanding how powerful it is to have a Frame that's good at multiple things.

And I'm agreed on the earlier mention of Ash's abilities being supplemental. He fits very well with the traditional ninja motif. And to anyone wondering, no, actual ninjas weren't all stealth and shadowy assassination. They used stealth, yes, but they could also go in loud if necessary, and had many, many tools in their arsenal. Ash fits this nicely, having abilities that mesh nicely with a mostly gunplay or melee playstyle, while filling in whatever gaps your kit might have. All said, he's in a pretty good place right now.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

4 hours ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

try taking ash with a group squad of people that knows how to use their warframe. You can would have the least kills on the squad. Hell ash is barely endgame and that’s only cause of his augments 

I always take ash in sorties with other players and always end up with the most damage and least damage taken. The only ability that needs an augment to be high lvl viable is shuriken, other than that Ash's abilities are solid. 

Smokescreen gives ash Invisibility and stealth multipiers so it's already good.

Teleport opens enemies to finishers so a good melee weapon or CL can make work of lvl 100 enemies.

Bladestorm is one of the few damage abilities that's actually worth using in sorties. Having a steel charge on ash gives it enough damage to pretty much oneshot anything that isn't a heavy unit (which dies from slash damage in seconds).

Most other damage frames either lack survivability and/or damage to stay in high lvl content, meanwhile ash doesn't have to worry about that since he can go Invisible and deal finisher and slash damage which are the best damage types you can bring.

Edited October 5, 2017 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[Hypernaut1]

9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

 

I always take ash in sorties with other players and always end up with the most damage and least damage taken. The only ability that needs an augment to be high lvl viable is shuriken, other than that Ash's abilities are solid. 

Smokescreen gives ash Invisibility and stealth multipiers so it's already good.

Teleport opens enemies to finishers so a good melee weapon or CL can make work of lvl 100 enemies.

Bladestorm is one of the few damage abilities that's actually worth using in sorties. Having a steel charge on ash gives it enough damage to pretty much oneshot anything that isn't a heavy unit (which dies from slash damage in seconds).

Most other damage frames either lack survivability and/or damage to stay in high lvl content, meanwhile ash doesn't have to worry about that since he can go Invisible and deal finisher and slash damage which are the best damage types you can bring.

anyone that claims that Ash cant perform in sorties is either lying or doesnt know how to play Ash. How can a high damage armor ignoring frame NOT do well? It just doesnt make sense. Most weapons, do not OHK everything at sortie levels. Even if they were, they act as if Ash cant use weapons too. Most Other frames cant outdo Ash with their abilities.

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

 

25 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

anyone that claims that Ash cant perform in sorties is either lying or doesnt know how to play Ash. How can a high damage armor ignoring frame NOT do well? It just doesnt make sense. Most weapons, do not OHK everything at sortie levels. Even if they were, they act as if Ash cant use weapons too. Most Other frames cant outdo Ash with their abilities.

Frost rhino Mesa excal wukong valkyr nidus octivavia Titania and harrow says hi 

[Hypernaut1]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

 

Frost rhino Mesa excal wukong valkyr nidus octivavia Titania and harrow says hi 

Even if that's true, which its not, so what? That's still not MOST. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

 

Frost rhino Mesa excal wukong valkyr nidus octivavia Titania and harrow says hi 

Only frame on this list that has reliable survivability and damage is Octavia, but that's 1 frames out of what, 10+ frames?

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

Just now, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

Only frame on this list that has reliable survivability and damage is Octavia, but that's 1 frames out of what, 10+ frames?

Now that’s laughable to say the least especially considering I mention wukong as well

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

And btw I was just naming a few 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Personally, I think DE should take some time into looking at this thread if Ash’s Bladestorm does get rereworked. The primary idea in this thread looked very fascinating and promising, all it takes is to completely abolish his cinematic assassination kills with BS and make it close to what the TC and others have mentioned here:

Really, it’s simplicity at its best. I’d like to see this being Ash’s Bladestorm.

Edited October 5, 2017 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

Now that’s laughable to say the least especially considering I mention wukong as well

Wukong has godly survivability, but really meh damage.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

And btw I was just naming a few 

If they can't go Invisible and oneshot groups of lvl 100 enemies in seconds then I don't really care.

Edited October 5, 2017 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

If they can't go Invisible and oneshot groups of lvl 100 enemies in seconds then I don't really care.

Excal chromatic blade with condition overload 1 shots 

Mesa treats level 100 like level 15 with peacemaker 

your wukong isn’t modded right 

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

Excal chromatic blade with condition overload 1 shots 

AWESOME! he also gets one-shot since his only reliable source of survivability is radiant blind which uses LOS and has a cooldown of 3 seconds.

 

7 minutes ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

Mesa treats level 100 like level 15 with peacemaker

Can't be more right than this, she does have amazing survivability and unsurpassable damage, but she has to spend a lot amount of energy to keep her 2 and 3 up, and her peacemaker doesn't help that since it is also costly.

Also enemy AOE/procs attacks can still oneshot her through her 3

7 minutes ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

your wukong isn’t modded right 

Your probably right, mind showing/telling me your build, because for the life of me, I can't kill anything with him without using cloud Walker's finisher proc.

Edited October 5, 2017 by (XB1)Angryspy101