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My take on a zephyr rework/revisit

-Ryuurei-

By -Ryuurei-,
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-Ryuurei-

-Ryuurei-

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With Plains of Eidolon around the corner, and zephyr possibly getting primed next (please zephyr before mirage, please), I figured it was a good time to get into this and suggest some things.

Passive: remove current one, replace with aimglide version of loki's, more aimglide support in abilities too. You can alter direction while aimgliding more easily too.

Tailwind: press to use tailwind, hold to charge divebomb speed and damage for rapid descents. This way you free up an ability slot, and you can vary your damage in a different way, since doing it by height is not ideal due to forced respawn sky limits. Resets aimglide duration after regular tailwind. Divebomb vortex augment remains usable on this, but also pulls in enemies from nearby tornadoes, or maybe the tornadoes themselves.

unnamed new ability: a burst of outwards wind that deals low damage, has a chamce to disarm enemies and staggers them. If cast with turbulence active it will consume turbulence to knock down, guarantee disarm and deal medium damage. Damage dealt is radial (damage falloff over distance) and stagger/knockdown becomes nothing/stagger after 3/4 the total range. (When using up turbulence) it also pushes away incoming projectiles within range. Probably on 3, 75 or 50 (when consuming turbulence) energy.

Turbulence: (adds evasion % to you instead of a ring with hitscan accuracy debuff for enemies,)*see notes below inner radius for projectiles stays as is. While active, tailwind goes faster (and thus farther) by 20% (or something like that). Jet stream still functions the same.Maybe reduce cost to 50 energy and swap to 2.

Tornado: Tornadoes start at reticule and actively seek out enemies, holding longer spreads them out at start a bit more. Going near the top half of a tornado and aimgliding functions as an updraft, giving you a bit of height. When armoured or robotic (or just any, I guess) enemies die inside it they add debris, increasing the damage. The idea is to make it better and provide the player more control. Augment still creates more smaller tornadoes, but also removes updraft effect, more debris damage instead.

Please let me know what you think, and upvote if you like it. Will adjust depending on feedback.

Turbulence notes: It's come to my attention that turbulence doesn't work the way I thought it did anymore (for quite a while even), so the evasion % instead of hitscan debuff line is pointless, as such I'll put it between brackets.

Edited by --Q--DragonSkllzz
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-AoN-CanoLathra-

-AoN-CanoLathra-

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8 minutes ago, --Q--DragonSkllzz said:

While active, turbulence goes faster (and thus farther) by 20% (or something like that).

I think you mean Tailwind.

Other than the annoyance I would likely have with pressing 2 by accident at the worst possible times (I.E. Bombard rocket inbound), it sounds pretty good.

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-Ryuurei-

-Ryuurei-

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7 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

I think you mean Tailwind.

Other than the annoyance I would likely have with pressing 2 by accident at the worst possible times (I.E. Bombard rocket inbound), it sounds pretty good.

Hmm, maybe add a projectile redirect to the wind burst when using up turbulence? Also yes I meant tailwind, thanks.

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xXDeadsinxX

xXDeadsinxX

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7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

I guess what I ment was are they currently working on it?

Well if you're asking that, I actually have no idea if they are currently working on the rework or not. She is the next prime frame if they follow the prime order so that's definitely promising. She will be primed in about a month and a half I think, so they do have time if they do rework her. But I'm going to take a wild guess that they haven't started on it yet since PoE is taking all of their resources.

Edited by xXDeadsinxX
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Birdframe_Prime

Birdframe_Prime

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Zephyr is being looked at yes, Warframe reworks are not giving new abilities, confirmed after the Limbo rework, so everyone please stop trying to rework in new abilities.

As far as we know, if Plains is fully out this month, coming this week and then patched for as many bugs as possible before the end of the month... then they have November to rework Zephyr before the December Prime Access. If they can do it in the time, then Zephyr will most likely be the next Prime. If things run on and stretch out to ridiculous levels of patch needing, then Mirage will get bumped up and be the more popular pick for December (lots of money in for the Christmas access since Zephyr is far less popular). Zephyr's rework will then be in time for the March Prime Access, and Mirage's rework will be when her Deluxe Skin is release (the way they did it for Ash).

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-Ryuurei-

-Ryuurei-

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Except the backlash on the limbo rework is due to what stasis does (removes weapon choice for the entire team, and if someone is using a glaive as melee, well uh... rip) rather than because it's new, actually getting rid of rift walker as an ability was rather liked afaik. Frames that have very similar issues (2 abilities with basically the same effect: *cough* tailwind and divebomb *cough*) should have something done to remove one and replace it with sething else.

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Birdframe_Prime

Birdframe_Prime

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3 hours ago, --Q--DragonSkllzz said:

Except the backlash on the limbo rework is due to what stasis does (removes weapon choice for the entire team, and if someone is using a glaive as melee, well uh... rip) rather than because it's new, actually getting rid of rift walker as an ability was rather liked afaik. Frames that have very similar issues (2 abilities with basically the same effect: *cough* tailwind and divebomb *cough*) should have something done to remove one and replace it with sething else.

Except that it's more a time thing right now. Previously reworks have been coming out at 1 every 3 months, or the same kind of cycle needed to produce a whole new warframe. What with big projects like the Plains and The Sacrifice coming up, DE are trying to minimise the time they spend on reworks, thus rather than concepting and programming an entire new ability, changing the mechanics of the existing ones using existing materials (Oberon's healing now being a pulse, like Mag and Nova instead of seeking, for example) produces similar and much, much faster results.

DE were able to rework Oberon and Hydroid within the time-frames of their Prime's being announced and then releasing them before the Primes so that the Access was based on the reworked frame, not the old frame. And say what you like about Hydroid's puddle, the result for both frames is better than the original by a long way.

So they need to think about how they can save dev time on reworks, because if they don't... we don't get the new content on time.

As for Tailwind and Dive Bomb, rather than being the same ability, you have to start (because I know nobody does currently) thinking of them as opposites. One is designed for going into the air, for evading enemies or movement, possible damage or possible other effects while in the air, and setting yourself into a better position. Meanwhile Dive Bomb is for the opposite, it's for coming down hard, for engaging the enemy and for sustain when you're in a fight by stunning enemies for short durations, it also has a possibility for damage, but the scaling on it is too small for the base damage to actually have that much effect. (At 200% strength, with 15m height, you're still only dealing 1500 damage... she's not a very damaging frame overall, that needs to be fixed for certain.)

My most recent rework of Zephyr was designed around this idea, of engaging the enemy by using Dive Bomb as a targeted knock down on groups, where you had Dive Bomb as her first ability, Tailwind as a passive movement, and then a second ability that grouped enemies up a little in order for you to DB them to start a fight.

It's a shame, really, we all had these great ideas... then DE just said 'nope, you're not having them'.

Edited by Thaylien
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-Ryuurei-

-Ryuurei-

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2 hours ago, Thaylien said:

-snip-

Ah, I see, I thought it was because of the backlash they received, but it's a time issue. Still, I bet a lot of people would rather wait a little bit longer for the rework than get one they don't like (ash says hi), that's just my own thoughts though. I guess I'll just need to hope that they make tailwind and divebomb worth using, and make tornado a bit more usable than it is now.

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Birdframe_Prime

Birdframe_Prime

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24 minutes ago, --Q--DragonSkllzz said:

Ah, I see, I thought it was because of the backlash they received, but it's a time issue. Still, I bet a lot of people would rather wait a little bit longer for the rework than get one they don't like (ash says hi), that's just my own thoughts though. I guess I'll just need to hope that they make tailwind and divebomb worth using, and make tornado a bit more usable than it is now.

Well, if you want a bit of that, why not head over to my last surviving rework and take a look?

It's over here:

 

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sherif3000

sherif3000

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I'm not saying anything about your rework, I'm just noting that people are missing the fact that Zephyr is actually getting special attention unlike any other frame before her. Therefore it is unlikely that she'll get a 'revisit', I'm expecting nothing less than a major overhaul - without loosing the 'essence' of the Zephyr frame.

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Birdframe_Prime

Birdframe_Prime

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1 minute ago, sherif3000 said:

I'm not saying anything about your rework, I'm just noting that people are missing the fact that Zephyr is actually getting special attention unlike any other frame before her. Therefore it is unlikely that she'll get a 'revisit', I'm expecting nothing less than a major overhaul - without loosing the 'essence' of the Zephyr frame.

No, friend, sadly it really is her Deluxe Skin that is the 'passion project' for one of their skin team, the actual frame is on the normal schedule for rework and DE have stated that there's no more complete overhauls and no more new abilities, all reworks in the future are the same style as Oberon and Hydroid. It's all on streams and interviews, I can dig them up for you.

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sherif3000

sherif3000

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Iv heard Scott say that about frames in general on a devstream, however Zephyr's deluxe skin appears to be almost complete, there is no way a skin gets a passion project, the closest might have been banshee when they 'outsourced' her artwork to get a deluxe skin, Zephyr being an older frame seems only right that she gets rework, hence the passion project.

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sherif3000

sherif3000

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BTW, Steve also hinted at a glide mechanic wrt to Zephyr's wings on her deluxe skin. Also Mynki said in an older interview he wasn't happy with Zephyr (quite sure he was referring to her abilities) as it was rushed out due to time constraints.

Edited by sherif3000
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Birdframe_Prime

Birdframe_Prime

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3 hours ago, sherif3000 said:

BTW, Steve also hinted at a glide mechanic wrt to Zephyr's wings on her deluxe skin. Also Mynki said in an older interview he wasn't happy with Zephyr (quite sure he was referring to her abilities) as it was rushed out due to time constraints.

You are genuinely not listening to me, are you? We have actual proof that Zephyr's Deluxe Skin is the 'passion project' you're referring to. Do you want to see? Here.

There? Happy?

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