PoE - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

[BlackCoMerc]

First - The Good:

Amazing world space. It feels like part of a living world. Likewise, Cetus is great. Talking to inhabitants of the world, hearing their tales, RPG style, is nice. 

Mini activities are cool. Occasionally a break from the actions is great. 

New AI. Enemies begin firing from further afiekd, fan out and generally make killing them harder in a GOOD way. Nice change...at low and mid levels. See below.

The Ugly - aka, Stuff that Just Needs Fixed:

Let us skip dialogue. At least after hearing it once.

Cetus Reputation Grind: needing to run the same missions over and over to earn rep...it's like you WANT to burn players out on your game.

Just. Let. Us. Play. Give smaller amounts of rep for each Grineer camp we clear it platoon we kill off. Let us play the game, not game the game.

Likewise, Bounty missions need far more variety at every tier. Newer players have ONE mission. And we should get all rewards immediately on completion, NOT after a walk back to Cetus.

Bounties are a great idea, with bad implementation.

Enemies on the Plains need a hard cap around level 30-40. Right now their range, accuracy and numbers, coupled with their high TTK and the uselessness of Warframe powers in open spaces, means near certain death against high level enemies in the open. It's not challenging to take on lvl 60 moons in Plains. It just punishes you for bothering.

Enemy accuracy needs a reduction. Enemies need damage and range falloff. Tanking hit scan weapons from enemies and forcing real projectiles has never been more necessary.

Speaking of necessary: built in energy Regen. Plains outright Punishes frames without Energy Siphon.

Extraction: we need Extraction points scattered around the open world. It the ability to extract back to Cetus instantly if not in combat. The need to walk back each mission kills the fun.

As does the lack of Archwing. You pushed the mode swapping HARD during the hype. Only to lick Ys out of it for the ENTIRE OPENING WEEKEND. That's is just an awful thing to do, as human beings. 

Clans crafting the Launcher should receive it today. It should also be a 12 hour personal BP in the market. No Plat needed.

 

The Bad - aka, Just Scrap It. Now:

Operator Requirements. For Eidolons. Or anything else. If you want to reward use of the Really Terrible Emo Kid Game Play, fine. But this constantly forcing it, is getting sad. If people LIKED it, this wouldn't be necessary. But we don't, so please, just stop.

Aerial Bombardment. Without the ability to swap, at will, to Archwing, this is a death sentence. It's not fun. It's not challenging. It's just tedium. Either let us swap freely, scrap this or DRASTICALLY reduce EHP if enemies that are airborne.

Armor Scaling in Plains: In crowded rooms where our CC actually works, some portion of the games outrageous scaling MIGHT be excusable. In the Plains, where CC is nigh useless, scaling needs to go. 

Enemy TTK in an open environment cannot be this high. Either scrap armor Scaling, or cap enemies for Plains missions at 30-40 max for high levels. The horde mode buffs do not translate well to an open world.

 

Plains is a GREAT update. Fun to explore. But the supporting mechanics need serious tweaks.

[DiabolusUrsus]

TLDR; stop band-aiding bad mechanics and force-feeding players content they don't care about.

100% agree with your post (actually did read it all). Expect a more detailed reply after I get home from work.

[BlackCoMerc]

20 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

TLDR; stop band-aiding bad mechanics and force-feeding players content they don't care about.

100% agree with your post (actually did read it all). Expect a more detailed reply after I get home from work.

Thanks for reading. This is a fair summation.

Trying to kill armor Scaling enemies with night limitless firing range with naught but guns in an open world...

I...think it's time for that Damage 3.0 pass now.

[karl0ssus1]

IMO the big ones are reputation (why the actual F*** is my daily rep cap 275?) and the damage thing.

Warframes were always glass cannons, but in the old environments you could use terrain to very effectively manage a crowd, even on defense. In Eidolon your options are to run the hell away, or get used to being very shot up. Fire comes in from every degree of the compass, often concealed behind shrubbery, and the rate of reinforcements is absurd. Either give us better ability to CC, or better ability to just find the F#$%ers. 

As for archwing, I havent been able to try it (thx DE) so cant comment, but energy and kid mode havent been too big a deal yet. On the other hand, my Kavat getting killed by mortar fire that seems timed to drop the next round just as I revive him... Thats been the single greatest cause of my deaths out on the plains so far.

[BlackCoMerc]

3 minutes ago, karl0ssus1 said:

IMO the big ones are reputation (why the actual F*** is my daily rep cap 275?) and the damage thing.

Warframes were always glass cannons, but in the old environments you could use terrain to very effectively manage a crowd, even on defense. In Eidolon your options are to run the hell away, or get used to being very shot up. Fire comes in from every degree of the compass, often concealed behind shrubbery, and the rate of reinforcements is absurd. Either give us better ability to CC, or better ability to just find the F#$%ers. 

As for archwing, I havent been able to try it (thx DE) so cant comment, but energy and kid mode havent been too big a deal yet. On the other hand, my Kavat getting killed by mortar fire that seems timed to drop the next round just as I revive him... Thats been the single greatest cause of my deaths out on the plains so far.

Agreed.

Enemy range is slightly high. Accuracy is FAR too high, especially at range.

And Mortars? Those are absurdly OP.

As for the Archwing delay...that was a hateful play. Really low brow. Especially coming with a Play discount on login.

Nope. We are crafting a launcher. I'll wait. For to unlock it. Like you SHOULD.

I love the Plains. The freedom. Taking on enemies as I find them. Game play wise, it's great.

But the underlying mechanics are, once again, an utter letdown.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Operator Requirements. For Eidolons. Or anything else. If you want to reward use of the Really Terrible Emo Kid Game Play, fine. But this constantly forcing it, is getting sad. If people LIKED it, this wouldn't be necessary. But we don't, so please, just stop.

Operators could be good and fine but that need DE to finally change them.

Either give us mature operators trained to be shadow assasins or turn them into void beings who control a vast power.

Their movement is terrible, the damage is lacking, the dialogues are bad and the lack of customization cant even make us use them for fashionframe.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 minute ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Operators could be good and fine but that need DE to finally change them.

Either give us mature operators trained to be shadow assasins or turn them into void beings who control a vast power.

Their movement is terrible, the damage is lacking, the dialogues are bad and the lack of customization cant even make us use them for fashionframe.

Agreed. At this point, Operators serve no purpose and aren't fun. At all.

If they were scrapped tomorrow I'd celebrate.

[devildevil21]

18 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Agreed. At this point, Operators serve no purpose and aren't fun. At all.

If they were scrapped tomorrow I'd celebrate.

I don't get how the operator has no purpose.

 

In void mode, you're INVULNERABLE to damage, in stealth, and your warframe is ALSO invulnerable. Using that, you can quickly evade one-shot attacks, and you also evade EVERY eidolon attack! 

Operators are great currently, you simply didn't give them much of a chance.

But I do agree with 1 thing in this thread: rep gaining. It's currently a pain, and one of the features of focus 2.0 (amps) is currently locked behind a HUGE grind wall. I mean, making 5k a day?! That's just... ridiculous. And it takes you TONS of eidolon cores just to get 5k standing.

[Sunder]

Oh I agree wholeheartedly with the aerial combatants being incredibly tedious. I seem to recall them showing the gear wheel archwing deployment as a place holder. Saying they were working on something else. Something QUICKER.

 

And the grind? I just can't believe these focus costs. They need to be cut in half. At least.

[BlackCoMerc]

4 minutes ago, devildevil21 said:

I don't get how the operator has no purpose.

 

In void mode, you're INVULNERABLE to damage, in stealth, and your warframe is ALSO invulnerable. Using that, you can quickly evade one-shot attacks, and you also evade EVERY eidolon attack! 

Operators are great currently, you simply didn't give them much of a chance.

But I do agree with 1 thing in this thread: rep gaining. It's currently a pain, and one of the features of focus 2.0 (amps) is currently locked behind a HUGE grind wall. I mean, making 5k a day?! That's just... ridiculous. And it takes you TONS of eidolon cores just to get 5k standing.

I'll give the Operator mode a fair shake this weekend. Fair enough.

But rep? Yeah, it's...bad. We need to gain rep in open world roam mode. Shooting down ships, clearing bases, defeating different enemy types, hacking consoles at out posts...any setback we deal the Grineer should offer some small rep gains.

Otherwise, Free Roam is nigh on pointless.

[SenpaiNinjaSama]

I agree with your post,but I wanted to say something else aswell,like bounty guy should be in Poe not Cetus ,well I have a bad PC it runs Poe just fine but Cetus with the large amount players is just a stutter fest for me and about the extraction points,it would be good if it lets you extract to Cetus or space like wise,maybe a unique tenno building in Poe which lets you use navigation from Poe may be an interesting idea other wise your post if definitely something to be agreed upon :D

[LuckyCharm]

I pretty much agree on all points especially the archwing one since it's a massive pain to skirt around lakes, get peppered by dygarions or whatever the flying scooters the grineer use are called without being able to dogfight them back and just the necessity of having to go back and fourth from cetus all the time for bounties. If there was a way to just accept them all and head out to do them all then turn them all in at the end that would be so much better. 

The one point i disagree with slightly is the operator. I like mine, and I've waited a long time for her to be better. I just wish the almost max naramon tree i HAD didn't turn out to be 1 and a half nodes worth of exp. Really, the increase of focus needed wasn't necessary. It was already painful enough grinding for it, and allowing us to grind more if we want to didnt really ease the fact that unless you're actively farming for it and not just playing the game you wont get much with the way the focus orbs work. Passively gaining focus while you get affinity is how it always should have been, not the having to collect an orb and then try nuke an area for the next short while and hope you're on the right frame for it. The focus grind now is just silly. I can see why most people are saying they dont care about their operators now with how its been reworked to require 10x what you had previously for what feels like less reward since while cool, the operators were never the focus we as players had for wanting to kill stuff.. it was always our warframes unique abilities and the effects mods have on them. Not our tennos mediocre abilities that dont change very much and cant be modded

[ocram444]

Why the hell is nobody complaining about the loading range of enemies and meshes ?!

They gave us a 400m range on snipers and enemies don't load after 150m this is a problem ... wtf guys....?!

[Doforcash]

to be fair it's depending what you're using.

To me most mortal are fairly squishy and slow as hell. I mean i can just run straight at them with Ash, Frost, Limbo, Rhino (duh) ect...ect... and nothing hit me exept bullets by other enemy. But really that isn't a problem

Either that or years of constandly solo sorties train me good

hmmmmmmmm............

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, SenpaiNinjaSama said:

I agree with your post,but I wanted to say something else aswell,like bounty guy should be in Poe not Cetus ,well I have a bad PC it runs Poe just fine but Cetus with the large amount players is just a stutter fest for me and about the extraction points,it would be good if it lets you extract to Cetus or space like wise,maybe a unique tenno building in Poe which lets you use navigation from Poe may be an interesting idea other wise your post if definitely something to be agreed upon :D

Bounties should grant ALL rewards immediately on completion. Returning to Cetus should not be mandatory.

I mean we obviously have comms in our suits. Others talk to us all the time. At great length. Whether we want them to or not. So why not just call in the bounty completion and reward Ys immediately? 

[CrazyCatLad]

God I hate operators but I'm forced to use them. Thanks DE. I love the open world but my negative review on steam will remain negative.

[BlackCoMerc]

It's Archwing all over again. Like they learned nothing.

We gave your new mechanics a year. Frankly,Bim sorry, they suck. Neither Focus, nor the Operator, are worthy of more Dev time.

Focus on the game people do want to play. Not Crippled Kid Sim.

[Gnlstorm]

To be honesty, I easily adapted to the every new.. Currently farmed all new mods, got maxed standing within few days/few hrs per day, got enough resource, well - planned everyday what to do stuff. I started to think "why do some of the player cannot adapt it"?... It alright to give option but sometime we need to be feel granted about what DE did for us.. Give them some cool spot, ton of ton of complain doesn't solve any problem.. Give DE a pat and said "well done, keep going" rather than annoying complain this and that.. This POE did changed from the first day and every day got update and hot - fix so be patient and trust them... As Tenno we should had the strength and mind of one... As for the new player if u cannot do cetus pls avoid it after the saya quest, i believe got lot of  friendly veteran willing to help too... 

[BlackCoMerc]

36 minutes ago, Gnlstorm said:

To be honesty, I easily adapted to the every new.. Currently farmed all new mods, got maxed standing within few days/few hrs per day, got enough resource, well - planned everyday what to do stuff. I started to think "why do some of the player cannot adapt it"?... It alright to give option but sometime we need to be feel granted about what DE did for us.. Give them some cool spot, ton of ton of complain doesn't solve any problem.. Give DE a pat and said "well done, keep going" rather than annoying complain this and that.. This POE did changed from the first day and every day got update and hot - fix so be patient and trust them... As Tenno we should had the strength and mind of one... As for the new player if u cannot do cetus pls avoid it after the saya quest, i believe got lot of  friendly veteran willing to help too... 

But it's not a job well done.

Archwing in PoE is still awful. Fragile, hard to control and useless. And that's AFTER the grind.

Bounties are absurdly bad: five missions, half of them tedious and the other half boring...all confined to mission Areas SMALLER than a tile room...despite the open map.

Diluted loot tables, full of Garbage.

Pointless, Unrewarding free roam mode.

Locking Progression behind boring mini games like mining and fishing.

Forcing Operator combat, which is subpar in every imaginable way to using Warframes...

Quills grind is both intolerably boring and pointlessly circular.

Plague Star was so repetitive, and so boring, it was mind boggling.

PoE is so riddled with design mistakes it's sad. Free roam should see new mods, fish parts, rocks and gems drop from containers. We should gain rep for ALL Grineer we kill on the Plains. 

Archwing shouldn't need fish oil. Or launchers. Doesn't need them on Uranus.

Bounties... just...reward free roam and ditch these. They're mind numbingly boring, at this point.

If DE want open maps to work, they need to let go of only ever rewarding via mission rotations. People play open worlds to EXPLORE and DISCOVER. Not to follow the same scripted cues corridor shooters offer.

PoE, right now, doesn't deserve a pat on the back. It deserves a polite nod, for a solid foundation laid...followed by a "now, get back to work and make it FUN."

Edited December 3, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[BlackCoMerc]

On 10/13/2017 at 11:54 AM, ocram444 said:

Why the hell is nobody complaining about the loading range of enemies and meshes ?!

They gave us a 400m range on snipers and enemies don't load after 150m this is a problem ... wtf guys....?!

That is an excellent point too. Another PoE design issue.

[Gnlstorm]

2 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

But it's not a job well done.

Archwing in PoE is still awful. Fragile, hard to control and useless. And that's AFTER the grind.

Bounties are absurdly bad: five missions, half of them tedious and the other half boring...all confined to mission Areas SMALLER than a tile room...despite the open map.

Diluted loot tables, full of Garbage.

Pointless, Unrewarding free roam mode.

Locking Progression behind boring mini games like mining and fishing.

Forcing Operator combat, which is subpar in every imaginable way to using Warframes...

Quills grind is both intolerably boring and pointlessly circular.

Plague Star was so repetitive, and so boring, it was mind boggling.

PoE is so riddled with design mistakes it's sad. Free roam should see new mods, fish parts, rocks and gems drop from containers. We should gain rep for ALL Grineer we kill on the Plains. 

Archwing shouldn't need fish oil. Or launchers. Doesn't need them on Uranus.

Bounties... just...reward free roam and ditch these. They're mind numbingly boring, at this point.

If DE want open maps to work, they need to let go of only ever rewarding via mission rotations. People play open worlds to EXPLORE and DISCOVER. Not to follow the same scripted cues corridor shooters offer.

PoE, right now, doesn't deserve a pat on the back. It deserves a polite nod, for a solid foundation laid...followed by a "now, get back to work and make it FUN."

Maybe different player got different level of adapt... Take plague star event as an example... I only taken less than a week to get Both exodia arcane x10/ infested zaw all 4 part/ sniperton/ still left point for resource and i hardly played below 4hrs per day... Maybe i am type of player that set target go for it and said bye bye... 

[BlackCoMerc]

44 minutes ago, Gnlstorm said:

Maybe different player got different level of adapt... Take plague star event as an example... I only taken less than a week to get Both exodia arcane x10/ infested zaw all 4 part/ sniperton/ still left point for resource and i hardly played below 4hrs per day... Maybe i am type of player that set target go for it and said bye bye... 

Four hours a day...every day...just running plague star?

Um...no thanks.

But This isn't about grind. Not the length. This is about the sorry state of the systems, the lack of rewards and the lack of mission variety. There's no excuse for Focus 2.0, having 5 bounty missions, not rewarding free roam...

PoE is in a bad place. It needs fixed.