Dual swords are some of the worst of all weapons when it comes to movement

[JohnMorte]

For a lot of melee weapons, there are tradeoffs to use. For example, Heavy blades are (supposed to be) a pain to lug around and use, but dish out damage worthy of losing momentum. Then I pick up my polearms and end up liking those much more since I don't lose momentum while attacking. Heavy blades are a pain and the only one I see used considerably is Zenistar.

Dual swords are some of the worst though, if not the worst. I'm locked in a pitiful animation that does shameful damage for how much movement I'm losing. Instead of nerfing other weapons to be in line with that, just bring dual swords back up to snuff.

Speaking of, Quick Melee seems to be my goto lately. Most stances are just terrible for staying on the move. You're usually forced into some Bruce Lee wannabe nonsense that isn't worth it. When most of your survivability relies on staying on the move and hitting hard, dual swords just aren't enticing.

When the dual daggers are better for mobility than dual swords, there is a problem.

[tactical_surgeon]

Crossing snakes +  hold block + spam E  while sprinting

You keep your sprint speed while windmilling - it does great damage.  One of my most powerful melee weapons is easily the Nami Skyla Prime.   

[JohnMorte]

16 minutes ago, tactical_surgeon said:

Crossing snakes +  hold block + spam E  while sprinting

You keep your sprint speed while windmilling - it does great damage.  One of my most powerful melee weapons is easily the Nami Skyla Prime.   

blocking just doesnt work for me. have it bound to a key, that key doesn't trigger block and is the only way to utilize block on my setup

guess im screwed in that aspect

[dragonboss]

10 minutes ago, JohnMorte said:

blocking just doesnt work for me. have it bound to a key, that key doesn't trigger block and is the only way to utilize block on my setup

guess im screwed in that aspect

What setup is that?

[tactical_surgeon]

Why not change the keybind -  I have mine set to right click and channel is mouse 1 while holding melee.  E is both melee and quick melee for me which I have bound to another mouse button to simulate E.  
 

[JohnMorte]

9 hours ago, dragonboss said:

What setup is that?

the only place I have room for a block is my mouse wheel click. that button doesn't work, and I don't have any buttons on my mouse, seeing as its a simple one.

[JohnMorte]

9 hours ago, tactical_surgeon said:

Why not change the keybind -  I have mine set to right click and channel is mouse 1 while holding melee.  E is both melee and quick melee for me which I have bound to another mouse button to simulate E.  
 

I don't use wasd movement

[Epsik-kun]

On 10/22/2017 at 2:16 AM, JohnMorte said:

I'm locked in a pitiful animation that does shameful damage

Dual swords are absurdly efficient single-target damage dealers. They effectively outperform the likes of Lesion, Galatine Prime, or Nikana Prime in short-term burst damage up to armored heavy enemy level 200 or so.

Stop using garbage builds and start going for that pause combo.

But of course, you won't be able to compete with proper spin melee on the regular levels - nothing will.

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

What illicit substance are you on?

Nami skyla prime, dark split-sword, twin basolk (yes twin basolk with corr, clast and CO), prisma dual cleavers, dual kamas prime, dex dakra (too with corr-blast and CO) are all excellent weapons capable of destroying anything up to lv 150 (which is as far as a mr24 can test) with absolute ease.

And as explained above: you don't use the pause combo and you refuse to change your keys, which weirdly and amusingly prevent you from using a block  combo (the easiest combo to pull and almost always the strongest on a lot of stances).

It's pretty obvious the only problem here is you, i don't see why the community or DE have to worry about your personal agenda.

I don't want mobility on my dual swords because guess what, they need to hit the enemy.

[-Ryuurei-]

7 hours ago, (PS4)cdzbrbr said:

I don't want mobility on my dual swords because guess what, they need to hit the enemy.

Not disagreeing with the rest of the post, but implyimg mobile stances cannot hit enemies is far from the truth. Mobility in a stance is usually the main factor of why a good stance is actually considered good. Tempo royale: has a pause combo with mobility and a block combo (personal fav, just spam the first 2 hits only) that move you a fair but controllable amount. Polearms are usually used in quick melee to preserve uninterrupted sprint speed while swinging them around. Astral twilight's pause combo is amazing, 2 highly mobile spinny moves in a row that deal great damage to both single targets and groups as well, all because of that nice forward movement. The pause combo on defiled snapdragon is quite similar, but benefits from the insane range on certain hits. Heck, the pause combo on swirling tiger has a decent move, but is somewhat limited compared to the rest, with awkward stops in between uses.

Wow, did not intend to write a whole paragraph, but there you have it, mobile stances are always the best and most desirable ones.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Carving Mantis' hold left combo leads into a repeatable strike loop that allows you to move pretty much freely as it executes over and over, with the bonus that it does massive damage, applies bleeds, and sets up ground finishers over and over.

[JohnMorte]

On 10/24/2017 at 7:30 AM, (PS4)cdzbrbr said:

What illicit substance are you on?

Nami skyla prime, dark split-sword, twin basolk (yes twin basolk with corr, clast and CO), prisma dual cleavers, dual kamas prime, dex dakra (too with corr-blast and CO) are all excellent weapons capable of destroying anything up to lv 150 (which is as far as a mr24 can test) with absolute ease.

And as explained above: you don't use the pause combo and you refuse to change your keys, which weirdly and amusingly prevent you from using a block  combo (the easiest combo to pull and almost always the strongest on a lot of stances).

It's pretty obvious the only problem here is you, i don't see why the community or DE have to worry about your personal agenda.

I don't want mobility on my dual swords because guess what, they need to hit the enemy.

when most top tier melees do the damage of dual swords to entire rooms worth of enemies while retaining mobility then dual swords flat out dont cut it.

the combos on dual swords aren't mobile either. block combos should be possible on my setup but melee doesn't register clicking (and holding) the mouse wheel button as blocking. the fault is on the developers for that one.

[Tricky5hift]

Lol have you used literally any heavy melee weapon before?

Without Primed Fury or Berserker, swinging a Galatine Prime or a Scindo Prime takes forever.

[JohnMorte]

40 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Lol have you used literally any heavy melee weapon before?

Without Primed Fury or Berserker, swinging a Galatine Prime or a Scindo Prime takes forever.

???

yes I mentioned that. Galatine Prime and Scindo prime have tradeoffs for their massive damage

On 10/21/2017 at 12:16 PM, JohnMorte said:

For a lot of melee weapons, there are tradeoffs to use. For example, Heavy blades are (supposed to be) a pain to lug around and use, but dish out damage worthy of losing momentum. Then I pick up my polearms and end up liking those much more since I don't lose momentum while attacking. Heavy blades are a pain and the only one I see used considerably is Zenistar.

as seen here.

most of the top tier melees have some combination of damage and mobility. most heavy blades aren't really top tier except for the zenistar which has a mechanic that gives it usefulness outside of the cumbersome melee itself

 

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

23 hours ago, --Q--DragonSkllzz said:

Not disagreeing with the rest of the post, but implyimg mobile stances cannot hit enemies is far from the truth. Mobility in a stance is usually the main factor of why a good stance is actually considered good. Tempo royale: has a pause combo with mobility and a block combo (personal fav, just spam the first 2 hits only) that move you a fair but controllable amount. Polearms are usually used in quick melee to preserve uninterrupted sprint speed while swinging them around. Astral twilight's pause combo is amazing, 2 highly mobile spinny moves in a row that deal great damage to both single targets and groups as well, all because of that nice forward movement. The pause combo on defiled snapdragon is quite similar, but benefits from the insane range on certain hits. Heck, the pause combo on swirling tiger has a decent move, but is somewhat limited compared to the rest, with awkward stops in between uses.

Wow, did not intend to write a whole paragraph, but there you have it, mobile stances are always the best and most desirable ones.

Agreed with everything you said except for astral twilight. It's not the mobility that makes it great, it's the absurd amount of multi hit in that pause combo, which we all love.

See, most of the mobile stances are meant for weapons with decent to great range, that's why you can move around and still hit enemies.

Look at what happens when you try to give range AND mobility for rangeless weapon classes, such as bullet dance and gun blade: I don't know how you build your sarpa (since bullet dance is plain terrible for the redeemer), if you put prime fury on it and don't voluntarily slow down your attacks you WILL miss; now, try that same sarpa build, with bullet dance, and no extra attack speed, you suddenly start hitting enemies more consistently.

Let's pick another mobile stance: four riders for the claws weapon class, you will find yourself missing attacks when hitting at full speed, i still use it over the other two since it still feels more fluid than malicious raptor and vermillion storm, but i can't help to think it would be better if it was a little more static.

Yet another: The capoeira like stance for the sparring weapon class, it is completely destroyed by grim fury in terms of dps because you move a lot and miss attacks with the first.

So, in order to add mobility to rangeless weapons, these stances add range too, to make use of that mobility, which most of the times is useless and doesn't help.

Now, that's how i all see it and name things, perhaps we agree even more to each other, and just call them different things. For example: if you (and op) call mobility the fact that the stance is able, somehow, to tag along the enemies' stagger as it hits, then yeah, add mobility to everything (which is what i suppose you mean by mobility when mentioning the astral twilight), but adding mobility just for the sake of moving around (capoeira stance, four riders, bullet dance) then well...

Lastly, i don't know how the new dual swords stance cope with it (i'm on ps4) but the pause combo on swirling tiger makes up for the crap crossing snake stance and all the crap combos for its own stance. It's that good lol not that we couldn't use more combos like that...

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

8 hours ago, JohnMorte said:

when most top tier melees do the damage of dual swords to entire rooms worth of enemies while retaining mobility then dual swords flat out dont cut it.

the combos on dual swords aren't mobile either. block combos should be possible on my setup but melee doesn't register clicking (and holding) the mouse wheel button as blocking. the fault is on the developers for that one.

As said by someone, if you're considering star chart mobs then yeah, i'd agree every weapons class is redundant next to the orthos prime.

The higher lv the enemy is, the clearer weapon niches will be.

Admittedly i use a riven for my nami skyla and my dark split-sword, but they're both able to kill a lv 150 enemy before the pause combo is over, that's not even a hyperbole.

Even with a riven, i don't know a heavy weapon that can dish out that same amount of dps. 

I should mention that the swirling tiger's pause combo can hit four enemies easily if they're close together too.

[Lorienzo]

I LOVE, like LOVE Swirling Tiger. The other one just makes me want to scream. Especially because you hold the front arrow all the time when you melee something, you know. It's also clunky and slow and the moveset's a bit hard to execute.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Lorienzo