Focus 2.0: Focus Exp = Not Fun

[Rinteru]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

At least one big difference is they are not cramming Ember down your throat forcing you to play her (at most some quick boss kills to farm her, then a few missions to level her up, mastery fodder and completionist done)

They also didn't take away (insert your favorite frame here) while forcing you to use her (as they did with some nodes of focus.

There are plenty of ways to avoid ember spam - But how much kuva  can you farm kuva without an operator?  how many eidolons can you kill without an operator?  how many passive focus abilities can you activate without using your operator?

The same is true for fishing and mining. I like WF because its a fast paced shooting space ninja game.  The more they move away from that, the less i like it. What is hard for you to understand about that?

Back on topic, I don't mind the grind for most things in WF because for the most part, progression is relatively quick.  The hema and the new focus are not.  

 

Hey man, mind if i ask you some questions?  Would you be fine if they added fishing and mining materials to bounty drop tables instead of credits and relics then? Also operators are part of warframe lore right now, what you dislike about operators ( like idk they are emo kids) and what would make you to like them without taking deleting from game?  (for example maturity option)

[Toran]

Focus 2.0 is generally a failure to me. Here are the reasons in order of importance.

Focus is NO endgame
Focus leveling has the highest "farming" requirements of the whole game. In other games high requirements usually lock you out from the most challenging or most rewarding/powerful game content. With Focus 2.0 in its current form this simply isn't the case. You grind for nice-to-haves(-or-not), for gimmicks. For the normal game content you don't need Operators at all, only for single-purpose operator-exclusive contents (Kuva, Sentients, Quests). Most don't give a  about Focus, in the first place.

Extreme Affinity Requirements and daily limit:
The high requirements and the daily affinity limit lead to two conclusions:

• It orientates on extreme farmers, who are using crowd control techniques with bonus from stealth kills and convergence orbs to maximize affinity gain with relative ease. That's a small group of Warframe players. Personally, I find that stuff too boring for myself. I wouldn't care if they maxed out Focus 2.0 in a week, really. Why the rest of the players has to suffer from that?
• DE still has no solid plans for Focus and the Operator's place. With extreme requirements they have a comfortable time buffer to further work on Focus. Massive changes wouldn't have too much impact on the majority of players.

Operator enhancing skills, the way-bound skills, have the highest grind requirements:
It's my impression that DE wants us to accept and like if not love the Operator. Why are the way-bound skills that actually improve the Operator himself locked behind the wildest requirements? Why do I need to fully unlock a way-bound skill to make it working for all focus schools? The improvements are minor - you won't end up as the ultimate killing machine when you have unlocked them all. So why that extreme grind?

General Interest in Focus 2.0 will not increase over that of Focus 1.0:
In its current form Focus 2.0 just feels like Focus 1.1 to me. I just will activate my passives at start for 90% of the game - same as in Focus 1.0 - just different passives and no waiting timer. The only other thing I regularly do as Operator: resses, captures and console hacks in void mode - for that I don't need any Focus skills...

My demands:
Chain the amount of focus affinity gained to that of a warframe's affinity gain. Everyone playing the game for one to two hours daily should be able to get the daily limit without the need for cheesy farming techniques. That, or lower the overall requirements. And make those bloody way-bound skills working in all schools as soon as you unlock them!

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Toran

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

Just now, Rinteru said:

 Would you be fine if they added fishing and mining materials to bounty drop tables instead of credits and relics then? 

Yes.  And they can keep the fishing and mining as optional means of getting the materials.

Just now, Rinteru said:

 Also operators are part of warframe lore right now, what you dislike about operators 

I don't like that they are part of the battle - thats what the warframe is for.  I don't like their slow movement, squishyness, nor that they are all kids, their dialog, etc.  I don't want things to buff them and make them more combat ready - thats why we mod warframes.  Putting them into battle seems like inventing triagular wheels for cars - we already have a better solution. And now that they invented the triangular wheels and realize they are terrible, rather than get rid of them they say well, how about we make them square - the ride will be less bumpy.  oh and while we're at it lets make sure you have to drive 1 mile for every 10 with the new and improved square wheels.  

Just now, Rinteru said:

what would make you to like them without taking deleting from game? 

If when we went to relays as the operator, or the dojo, or just wandering about our ship. I'd have no issue if EVERY aspect of non-combat was in operator mode.  If we had better customization options for them (ie could make them older).  The lore is intact, the feel of the game is intact etc.

 

 

[Rinteru]

48 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

 

I don't like that they are part of the battle - thats what the warframe is for.  I don't like their slow movement, squishyness, nor that they are all kids, their dialog, etc.  I don't want things to buff them and make them more combat ready - thats why we mod warframes.  Putting them into battle seems like inventing triagular wheels for cars - we already have a better solution. And now that they invented the triangular wheels and realize they are terrible, rather than get rid of them they say well, how about we make them square - the ride will be less bumpy.  oh and while we're at it lets make sure you have to drive 1 mile for every 10 with the new and improved square wheels. 

Personaly I love option for operators combat, it feels pretty good to me ( at least the idea ). I thought they would get more movement options in this update, they got just one. Its not what i thought it would be but i'm still enjoying it. So i was thinking about solution ( i dont wanna any player to quit just because of operators ), so how about w take one focus school which would add a praticular skill. What it would do is adding void damage to your weapons based on a type of weapon. This type of dmg would be flat ( like amps are )  and it would be a bit weaker than what amps can do so entering operator wouldnt be mandatory however it still would be better using operators in certain situations and poeple like you wouldn't be forced to use them. What do you think ?

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Rinteru

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

7 minutes ago, Rinteru said:

Personaly I love option for operators combat, it feels pretty good to me ( at least the idea ). I thought they would get more movement options in this update, they got just one. Its not what i thought it would be but i'm still enjoying it. So i was thinking about solution ( i dont wanna any player to quit just because of operators ), so how about w take one focus school which would add a praticular skill. What it would do is adding void damage to your weapons based on a type of weapon. This type of dmg would be flat ( like amps are )  and it would be a bit weaker than what amps can do so entering operator wouldnt be mandatory however it still would be better using operators in certain situations and poeple like you wouldn't be forced to use them. What do you think ?

 

I'm not quitting because of operators - perhaps some drama queens are?  I'm just stating my opinion, my preferences, and what I enjoy in the hopes that after DE is done sifting through all the opinions, things move a bit in my preferred direction.  Or stop moving so fast the other way.

I hate the convergence orbs -but I still go after them.  Dislike kuva farming, but still do it. Don't like my annual physical, but show up once a year - oh wait....

 

[Rinteru]

9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

I'm not quitting because of operators - perhaps some drama queens are?  I'm just stating my opinion, my preferences, and what I enjoy in the hopes that after DE is done sifting through all the opinions, things move a bit in my preferred direction.  Or stop moving so fast the other way.

I hate the convergence orbs -but I still go after them.  Dislike kuva farming, but still do it. Don't like my annual physical, but show up once a year - oh wait....

 

I meant, I've seen a lot of posts like " I dont like operators ", some of them were like im quitting cuz of that and to my suprise there is a quite big part of community who aren't keen on operator ideas . So i just started thinking of what DE could do for those who actualy dislike them and thats why i'm asking for your opinion on this topic. Personaly I think solution with skill that adds void damage to your warframe passively on one of the focus tree is quite nice idea. Well you still would have to use your operator to collect kuva. However the rest of content wouldnt be so much locked behind using operator.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Rinteru

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

1 minute ago, Rinteru said:

I meant, I've seen a lot of posts like " I dont like operators ", some of them were like im quitting cuz of that and to my suprise there is a quite big part of community who aren't keen on operator ideas . So i just started thinking of what DE could do for those who actualy dislike them and thats why i'm asking for your opinion on this topic. Personaly I think solution with skill that adds void damage to your warframe passively on one of the focus tree is quite nice idea. Well you still would have to use your operator to collect kuva. However the rest of content wouldnt be so much locked behind using operator.

Well, my opinion is

• they have no place on the battlefield. leave them in the relays, dojos, orbiter, etc.
• It doesn't make sense that if your WF goes down you are taken out of the fight, if your operator (a squishy actual humanoid) is "killed" he pops back into the wf as if nothing happened.  Wouldn't it make more sense to go the other way? Your WF goes down, you are popped out to your operator and have to run and hide til someone revives you? No more bleed out timer - the bleed out lasts as long as you can survive lol
• IF we are forced to use them on the battlefield why is the most potent weapon in the universe so pitifully weak? Both in survivability and damage output?
• Why do they always have to stay kids?

[Rinteru]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

Well, my opinion is

• they have no place on the battlefield. leave them in the relays, dojos, orbiter, etc.
• It doesn't make sense that if your WF goes down you are taken out of the fight, if your operator (a squishy actual humanoid) is "killed" he pops back into the wf as if nothing happened.  Wouldn't it make more sense to go the other way? Your WF goes down, you are popped out to your operator and have to run and hide til someone revives you? No more bleed out timer - the bleed out lasts as long as you can survive lol
• IF we are forced to use them on the battlefield why is the most potent weapon in the universe so pitifully weak? Both in survivability and damage output?
• Why do they always have to stay kids?

Thanks mate :) . I'm gonna try later on at least do the post on forums. I agree on the 3rd point thou. 

[Ceryk]

4 hours ago, Kalvorax said:

10% for basic lens, 25% for greater and 40% (or 50%) ediolon?

it would make it SSOOO much easier to calculate per kill how much focus Im getting.

edit to above: and I mean total in some way, meaning if you have all 4 slotted while in a party, obviously it would be around those numbers TOTAL. if you have just the warframe, it would be the same...basically no matter how many lens's you have installed....just this way you are always gaining focus at a meaningful degree.

 

This is one reason I am against the Lenses being put on equipment. There should be one lens slot on the operator. No calculation, no weird getting more focus out of 2 lenses than 4 by dropping the rest of your weapons, and universal gains. And as I said, if necessary, make them level up like arcanes do.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Ceryk

[boufy]

Without boost I gain 10k of focus, 20m in a normal mission, to reach the ceiling I have to play 8h20 provided to pick up all Convergence Orbs ...
when I do focus farm, I earn 50k in 20m (250k in 1h40)
So I have to stay on a map to do nothing for 1h40 to gain as much focus as 8:20 of real games! The whole problem is there ..
I'll simply ignore the focus 2.0 system (I'm playing to amuse myself, not to be bored)
i'm mr24*

ps: bad english, i use google translate 
 

[Kalvorax]

19 hours ago, Ceryk said:

This is one reason I am against the Lenses being put on equipment. There should be one lens slot on the operator. No calculation, no weird getting more focus out of 2 lenses than 4 by dropping the rest of your weapons, and universal gains. And as I said, if necessary, make them level up like arcanes do.

now that i would be completely fine with...especially since most of the focus stuff now is operator based....and it would cut down on the lens's needed drasitaclly to maybe one per school.

[Guest]

Focus 2.0 came out? Where?

I've been playing with 1.0 all this time, I upgraded 2 passives and quit.

[Helaton]

Just as a suggestion, make conversion orbs a consumable? I'd craft them to pop them when I need them or I can go running around to pick them up.  Make them last 60s if you pop one, and 30s if you pick one up. Just don't make it require a super-rare resource like nitain or something to craft it.

[racooperii]

3 minutes ago, Helaton said:

Just as a suggestion, make conversion orbs a consumable? I'd craft them to pop them when I need them or I can go running around to pick them up.  Make them last 60s if you pop one, and 30s if you pick one up. Just don't make it require a super-rare resource like nitain or something to craft it.

If they made it consumable then I think they'd have to at least last 5 minutes, otherwise it's the same annoyance of having to go into something that removes your attention from the task at hand. Be real annoying to have to jump into your gear wheel, pop it then wind up dying cause you were too busy putting on Convergence and the wind up losing the Convergence.

[Jakorak]

On 10/21/2017 at 5:59 PM, Ceryk said:

Rebb was doing a live stream last weekend and Steve was there talking with her and answering questions in chat and she actually suggested the idea of getting rid of the thing as well, so it doesn't so it doesn't sound like everyone at DE is thrilled with them either.

OH GOD PLEASE YES TELL ME IT'S TRUE. I MAXED OUT FOCUS 1.0 ENTIRELY AND I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL THE FRIGGIN TIME THAT CONVERGENCE ORBS ARE A DISGRACE TO GAME DESIGN

[Ceryk]

3 hours ago, Jakorak said:

OH GOD PLEASE YES TELL ME IT'S TRUE. I MAXED OUT FOCUS 1.0 ENTIRELY AND I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL THE FRIGGIN TIME THAT CONVERGENCE ORBS ARE A DISGRACE TO GAME DESIGN

It's true that Rebb suggested it, but word from Scott as of yesterday on Twitter is that there are no plans to get rid of it, just make it spawn more intelligently so you don't get it when it's useless and it doesn't spawn 500m away from you in certain mission types. Apparently the true goal behind the orb is to get people to move around and not hallway camp and they still want to keep that idea.

[NightBlitz]

27 minutes ago, Ceryk said:

It's true that Rebb suggested it, but word from Scott as of yesterday on Twitter is that there are no plans to get rid of it, just make it spawn more intelligently so you don't get it when it's useless and it doesn't spawn 500m away from you in certain mission types. Apparently the true goal behind the orb is to get people to move around and not hallway camp and they still want to keep that idea.

if thats the idea, it doesnt really work, it jut causes it to be worthless outside of very specific missions, forcing meta farming to get even a reasonable amount of focus.

honestly, just because some people can cap it for the day in 20 minutes (using a booster and stealth farm cheese mind you) doesn't mean it should be kept in the game as it is... they need to learn that. unless they make it spawn right on top of you at the beginning of each wave or encounter with a large group of enemies (basically making it active all the time rly) it will still be loathed and simply there to annoy players.

[Jakorak]

1 hour ago, Ceryk said:

It's true that Rebb suggested it, but word from Scott as of yesterday on Twitter is that there are no plans to get rid of it, just make it spawn more intelligently so you don't get it when it's useless and it doesn't spawn 500m away from you in certain mission types. Apparently the true goal behind the orb is to get people to move around and not hallway camp and they still want to keep that idea.

..... this gives me no confidence. because to make the changes NECESSARY to fix its problems of spawning when it has no use or far away... the end product would negate the point of it in the first place.

[Loswaith]

any suggestions here could go a long way to helping.

As to Convergence orbs, they could stay but just give a flat chunk of focus (a good amount) when you pick it up (or even a minimum amount, plus the boost now).  The focus gained could be shared among the lenses you have or just added to your currently equipped school (which would get people playing a variety of schools), to just the lens on your frame, or even to just a generic focus pool.

This then still makes them worth while to go get but alleviates any additional code to check for enemy density or intelligent spawn that will be prone to bugs or issues with the multitude of ways people play.

[racooperii]

2 hours ago, Ceryk said:

It's true that Rebb suggested it, but word from Scott as of yesterday on Twitter is that there are no plans to get rid of it, just make it spawn more intelligently so you don't get it when it's useless and it doesn't spawn 500m away from you in certain mission types. Apparently the true goal behind the orb is to get people to move around and not hallway camp and they still want to keep that idea.

Sorry but it still doesn’t really even do that. You move long enough to grab the orb then run back to the optimal position.

And if people want to hallway camp mindless AI, why stop them? When developers start enforcing their ‘ideal’ way if playing like this it has a habit of annoying the player base.

Convergence was and IS a terrible idea, making no plans to remove something that is tolerated at best and loathed at worst is just being stubborn.

basically, Focus 2.0 will remain a grindwall that only people willing to dedicate 400 days doing Sleepquinox-Stealth missions for 2 hours a day until they finally burn out and quit. Brilliant development strategy.

Edited October 28, 2017 by racooperii
Spelling

[Ceryk]

2 hours ago, Loswaith said:

any suggestions here could go a long way to helping.

As to Convergence orbs, they could stay but just give a flat chunk of focus (a good amount) when you pick it up (or even a minimum amount, plus the boost now).  The focus gained could be shared among the lenses you have or just added to your currently equipped school (which would get people playing a variety of schools), to just the lens on your frame, or even to just a generic focus pool.

This then still makes them worth while to go get but alleviates any additional code to check for enemy density or intelligent spawn that will be prone to bugs or issues with the multitude of ways people play.

I've thought of that myself. Flat bonus would make them useful in all situations. However, Scott seemed to indicate that he wasn't interested in doing anything that directly attacks the hardcore cheese farming methods but rather to incentivize the less profitable means of gaining focus (i.e. literally everything else other than hardcore cheese farming). I have a feeling that switching them to a flat bonus might be too close to directly dismantling the farming methods to ever happen.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Ceryk

[Aleksi134]

Syndicates are actually fun to farm ish. You have variety of missions to choose from to do syndicate missions from which you gain set amount of standing and passive standing gain, and there is the collectable items you can turn in aswell in the missions, why doesnt focus have system like this?

[Ceryk]

51 minutes ago, aleksi134 said:

Syndicates are actually fun to farm ish. You have variety of missions to choose from to do syndicate missions from which you gain set amount of standing and passive standing gain, and there is the collectable items you can turn in aswell in the missions, why doesnt focus have system like this?

The idea behind Focus Exp is supposed to be that the Tenno gains experience as they are out there doing things. In theory, that's fine. It makes perfect sense. There isn't any faction for Focus Exp, so missions for it would make no logical sense. The problem is the system is poorly executed and it doesn't end up working. Part of that is the abysmal rate of gains and partly because the affinity system is flawed to begin with and it rewards being bored over just playing the game.

As for the medallions, we have Brilliant Eidolon Shards to fill that role so that is already in the game.

[OfficialFrogvara]

To appologize in advance, I haven't read too many posts in this thread before writing this, but let me add my two cents of complaints and ideas.

I have never cared for Focus before outside of saving on pizzas with Zenurik. However, I absolutely love the Operators. I think they are a breath of fresh air, there's something about playing with them that I just adore (please don't take that out of context). So now that the Waybound nodes have been introduced to make your Operator stronger, I'm of course all over the system.

Now I've also realized there's a daily cap, and have done a little maths.

So, if I want all the Waybounds, I only have to unlock the from 4 trees, having one active primary. Just to unlock a node, I need it maxed and have 1 mil focus + Brilliant Eidolon shard. 2 Waybounds per tree, that's 8 million focus. If I were to cap every day, that's 4 days per 1 mil, so 32 days in total. And that's just to unlock the nodes! I don't even know how much focus I need to max all the nodes.

This puts the system in perspective, and instead of a thing I will have one day, it makes the nodes seem like a thing I /may/ have, if I farm extensivly every day. It changes a system I love and have fun with into a chore, and makes me feel like I just don't have energy for it, which in turn makes me not want to play that much.

This really, really really needs fixing. Either change the cap to 1 million per day and increase the focus gains drastically, or lower the focus costs drastically.

The lenses also really should be made either swappable or equipped onto the Operator, which would however need a revamp of the system.

[Kalvorax]

1 hour ago, Ceryk said:

As for the medallions, we have Brilliant Eidolon Shards to fill that role so that is already in the game.

which REQUIRES capturing eidolons....and a competent team with a 3/4 strict setup.

i actually would love to have focus missions from say, the Quill, where we get pickups that can end up being 10-15k focus per mission (or per set of missions like Semaris gives) (yes that much...i WANT something that can kind of compete with this blatant eidolon hunting that is already getting boring to do)..in addition to how daily cap...aka just like the syndicates.