"The Second Dream" is more like "The Second Nightmare"

[Nikbis]

What I don't like about the operator is that he/she is too "human".
So far, we had Grineers, Corpus and Lotus, all vaguely humans. Everything was set in a distant future with only a reminder of humans.
It gave the whole game an interesting feeling. No matter the weapon of mass destruction we are, after all the changes the operator endured, spent that much time in the Void, kids are back, like in old days. Great...
Unique atmosphere 0 - 1 Unimaginative storytelling

[JuicyPop]

56 minutes ago, Nikbis said:

What I don't like about the operator is that he/she is too "human".
So far, we had Grineers, Corpus and Lotus, all vaguely humans. Everything was set in a distant future with only a reminder of humans.
It gave the whole game an interesting feeling. No matter the weapon of mass destruction we are, after all the changes the operator endured, spent that much time in the Void, kids are back, like in old days. Great...
Unique atmosphere 0 - 1 Unimaginative storytelling

Well, their maturation in that respect was halted when they were placed into the Dream.

I'm not certain what their perception of the Dream was like, if they actually believed that they were the Warframe that they controlled or if the Orokin had done something to alter their perception while in the Reservoir, but regardless those experiences are now with them and constitute a significant element of their current identity. 

They are simply people with two distinct, yet meshing, personalities and the original half is now gradually being rediscovered and allowed to develop. It makes perfect sense that they would still act in the way that they do, which is still quite mature by the way, because that part of them was never given the chance to flourish. 

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by JuicyPop

[Shoelip]

Any time I see someone ranting about how the very existence of the operators ruins the game I just can't help but be reminded of the last thing Hunhow said before he realized he was screwed.  XD

 

 

As for why the operators act so childish at times, well part of it could be explained by what Teshin says just after closing that door in The War Within.  "Margulis lied to you, a lie of omission.  She did not cure the Zariman children, she erased them.  My only hope is that truth still lingers inside you, buries within your mind."  Doesn't explain why they still act like this after restoring their memories though.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Shoelip

[Fallen_Echo]

10 hours ago, ChampionSheWolf said:

I am wondering why they picked the emo voice? If they don't like them talking all emo, then change the voice there is 4 options, 2 female 2 male, one is emo the other is not. Mine is not emo. Furthest from it. At best, they are kids that have never experienced the world beyond their hyper sleep state. They were also grown as weapons of war, plain and simple, so their outlook on life isn't going to be the same as everything else. This is the hilarity of modern people, that they think everything int he universe will be empathetic when they are divorced from such things. You raise a kid from birth to be a weapon, they are not going to be heart broken or even flinch at the sight of blood or death like we would normally.

I have picked the best sounding voice pack and while she doesnt sound like an emo she still have these borderline lethargic, emo quotes and the idiotic responses.

The grineer are ugly quote is almost as annoying as the lotus saying "its the grineer" on a freaking grineer ship.

All they need is a complete rework to their lines and voices along with some new material for their clothes because this latex style bondage suit is creepy and not in the good way.

[Ravenwulfe]

4 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I have picked the best sounding voice pack and while she doesnt sound like an emo she still have these borderline lethargic, emo quotes and the idiotic responses.

The grineer are ugly quote is almost as annoying as the lotus saying "its the grineer" on a freaking grineer ship.

All they need is a complete rework to their lines and voices along with some new material for their clothes because this latex style bondage suit is creepy and not in the good way.

So basically you're saying voice over gets annoying after the Nth time you've heard it. In short, you describe an issue with video games in general that do voice over work. Yes I wish I could turn the operator off, just like I could turn off space mom.

[Fallen_Echo]

14 minutes ago, ChampionSheWolf said:

So basically you're saying voice over gets annoying after the Nth time you've heard it. In short, you describe an issue with video games in general that do voice over work. Yes I wish I could turn the operator off, just like I could turn off space mom.

Nonono, i was in video games where no matter how much time i heard the same thing it havent annoyed me a little bit, here its different. Its still does not annoy me but every time i hear it i think "a few modders from the skyrim nexus could do this better".

Also i think we have an option to mute them completely but i generally just dont use those.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

Just wait, OP. It gets worse.

[JalakBali]

20 hours ago, Nikbis said:

What I don't like about the operator is that he/she is too "human".
So far, we had Grineers, Corpus and Lotus, all vaguely humans. Everything was set in a distant future with only a reminder of humans.
It gave the whole game an interesting feeling. No matter the weapon of mass destruction we are, after all the changes the operator endured, spent that much time in the Void, kids are back, like in old days. Great...
Unique atmosphere 0 - 1 Unimaginative storytelling

This, I like this.

 

I know whether someone likes the twist of TSD is personal preference so I'm speaking as someone who is so jaded and tired of playing as your standard badass space marine ala Master Chief Marcus Fenix Shepard Guardian trope, that I'm so glad Warframe went the other direction. Instead of a gloomy hardened boys' power fantasy with a dark past stereotype, we got exploited children with magical powers due to an "accident" and turned into child soldiers. The revelation of your avatar of being a powerful space super soldier and suddenly got slammed with "actually, you're a crippled child" is just so emotionally powerful.

 

I actually don't enjoy the concept that you get to run around and be a badass starchild since it removes the emotional gut-punch. I can understand why they do this though, as it is an expansion of the gameplay and an added layer of complexity (and grind). I just prefer it when I found out I'm playing an an indigo child controlling an emotionless (?) murder machine. Basically, I'd prefer it if they made the Operators more broken.

 

The timeline is also making the lore interesting as you can tell the Orokin empire starting to fall apart in desperation when they first decided to turn their slave caste into soldiers, and then using "burn everything" WMD virus, and then resorted to using child soldiers. It doesn't work when you go from slaves, to WMD, to Ultimate Badass Space Warriors, because they already had those and they were called the Dax. The downward slide of morality of the empire leads to their destruction.

[Kashuken]

On 08/11/2017 at 3:48 AM, JalakBali said:

This, I like this.

 

I know whether someone likes the twist of TSD is personal preference so I'm speaking as someone who is so jaded and tired of playing as your standard badass space marine ala Master Chief Marcus Fenix Shepard Guardian trope, that I'm so glad Warframe went the other direction. Instead of a gloomy hardened boys' power fantasy with a dark past stereotype, we got exploited children with magical powers due to an "accident" and turned into child soldiers. The revelation of your avatar of being a powerful space super soldier and suddenly got slammed with "actually, you're a crippled child" is just so emotionally powerful.

 

I actually don't enjoy the concept that you get to run around and be a badass starchild since it removes the emotional gut-punch. I can understand why they do this though, as it is an expansion of the gameplay and an added layer of complexity (and grind). I just prefer it when I found out I'm playing an an indigo child controlling an emotionless (?) murder machine. Basically, I'd prefer it if they made the Operators more broken.

 

The timeline is also making the lore interesting as you can tell the Orokin empire starting to fall apart in desperation when they first decided to turn their slave caste into soldiers, and then using "burn everything" WMD virus, and then resorted to using child soldiers. It doesn't work when you go from slaves, to WMD, to Ultimate Badass Space Warriors, because they already had those and they were called the Dax. The downward slide of morality of the empire leads to their destruction.

The other direction as you put is is basically playing as a $&*&*#(%& child, can you really explain to me why i would want to play as a $&*&*#(%& child instead of a space ninja?

If that is emotionally powerful for you then wait till you grow up, you will be floored from the most basic emotions from life because frankly it had about as much emotion as a tomato has, as some one said earlier Metal Gear S#&$s all over it from a character development point and that has some of the most whacked out lore every created but yet is highly more believable that what DE has developed. I even get to play as a solider who was a child solider, the 9yr old Raiden would whoop the S#&$ out of these kids.

Warframe you wake up as a badass space ninja who can use different suits because magic and then find out you are a $&*&*#(%& emo kid who is forced into scenarios in which they are vastly ill equiped and out of there depth, what is the end game going to be? new warframe a @(*()$ wheelchair?

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, Kashuken said:

The other direction as you put is is basically playing as a $&*&*#(%& child, can you really explain to me why i would want to play as a $&*&*#(%& child instead of a space ninja?

If that is emotionally powerful for you then wait till you grow up, you will be floored from the most basic emotions from life because frankly it had about as much emotion as a tomato has, as some one said earlier Metal Gear S#&$s all over it from a character development point and that has some of the most whacked out lore every created but yet is highly more believable that what DE has developed. I even get to play as a solider who was a child solider, the 9yr old Raiden would whoop the S#&$ out of these kids.

Warframe you wake up as a badass space ninja who can use different suits because magic and then find out you are a $&*&*#(%& emo kid who is forced into scenarios in which they are vastly ill equiped and out of there depth, what is the end game going to be? new warframe a @(*()$ wheelchair?

I sincerely do not understand the people who talk about the "emotional weight" and gut punch impact of the TWW/TSD story arc. I mean...have you read a book? Even a moderately good one? Ever? Seen a movie that wasnt directed by Michael Bay or John Woo? Because if you've done either one of those...then the story telling in Warframe would just about bore you to sleep by comparison.

[ikkabotz]

If you're not satisfied with Second Dream, I'd argue it only gets worse from there. . I'm in agreement with you by the way, not much really added to Warframe has felt like an improvement to the gameplay in quite awhile. .There are plenty of apologists to defend it, but really all I've seen is a stronger emphasis on devaluing Plat for the playerbase, "Moar stuff" (meaning content, but I'd argue hollow content), and inexplicable nerfs in some aspects of the game while letting others go completely unchained. It is what it is. .Honestly, you can continue to play (as I do from time to time), but there's a pretty obvious market shift in the game and gameplay from what generation of Warframe you were once familiar playing from and the new style smells pretty bad. .The casual market killed it, like every other game that gets large like this. .honestly, I have a hunch you know where I'm coming from, believe me. .it's real. .it's here again. People can knock me if they want, call me an elitist or whatever. .I really don't care, the fact is it's a pity what's happened to Warframe.

Edited November 12, 2017 by komoriblues

[StabbyTentacles]

On 11/5/2017 at 9:31 AM, Vox_Preliator said:

All the whining about "emo teens" around here is far more immature, petty, and annoying than any teen I've ever met, and magnitudes worse than the Operators.

Whining about "emo teens" on a forum no player need ever read.

Is worse, than having to play as one, after literally years of playing Warframe as a Warframe.

White Knight much?

*Yeah and not only now do you play as one, but your Warframes are now being shoved into the background, to be replaced by this annoying teen!

**Speaking of orders of magnitude: mistaken, delusive...

[Vox_Preliator]

1 hour ago, StabbyTentacles said:

Whining about "emo teens" on a forum no player need ever read.

What are you even trying to say here?  Most every otherwise-constructive discussion that involves Operators always have at least a few argument-less "Operators suck because emo teens" posts, which offer nothing of substance and/or actively sabotage constructive discussion.

1 hour ago, StabbyTentacles said:

Is worse, than having to play as one, after literally years of playing Warframe as a Warframe.

You don't.  Put up your hood and disable transmissions, you now play as a Warframe that also has a deployable android designed to channel void energy.  If this discussion was about mechanics, this would at least open up a potential argument, but this thread has primarily been about the plot aspects.  Quests would still treat them as an Operator, but places where this is the case are minuscule and solvable by covering ones ears and loudly singing if it bothers you to such an extent.

Were this about mechanics, I would make the argument that Operators don't detract from gameplay, and greatly complement a warframe's abilities when one isn't pretending they're at all intended to replace a frame.  Before one gets a better Amp the beam certainly is lackluster, but building a 1/1/1 Amp is hardly an endeavor by Warframe standards, and afterwards an Operator can handle (Not necessarily handle well, but as mentioned, they aren't designed to be used instead of a frame) everything up to Sortie-level Grineer, which is more a statement on Armor Scaling rather than Amp effectiveness.  Other than damage, their usability is limited by one's creativity and imagination, with invincible hacking and reviving or easy and fast movement being quick examples that don't require any Focus investment to be good, but get better with it.

1 hour ago, StabbyTentacles said:

White Knight much?

lol not even worth it

1 hour ago, StabbyTentacles said:

*Yeah and not only now do you play as one, but your Warframes are now being shoved into the background, to be replaced by this annoying teen!

Not really.  99% of gameplay is still as a Warframe.  If one tries to make the argument that because that one percent is not enjoyable it should be removed, one could easily counter it by saying they enjoy that percent, and that another portion of the game (e.g. Spy, Interception, Hijack) is not enjoyable and should be removed, showing that such arguments hold no weight.

From a story standpoint, the few times a frame has been directly involved was because it was infested (Mesa, Chroma) or because it did something cool offscreen (Mirage, Limbo, Inaros, Gara, etc.), they themselves never were really front-and-center in quests so much as what they do, which hasn't changed after the Operator was introduced aside from the War Within, and even then part of it was about what Warframes can't accomplish on their own, they couldn't channel the raw Void energy necessary to counter the Queens' Kuva magic.  Aside from all that, there has been plenty of foreshadowing to suggest there is something resembling a consciousness inside Warframes, and quite a bit of speculation that The Sacrifice will delve more deeply into the story of Warframes themselves.

1 hour ago, StabbyTentacles said:

**Speaking of orders of magnitude: mistaken, delusive...

Rude and uncalled for.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Vox_Preliator

[Nazrethim]

On 4/11/2017 at 6:06 PM, Terrornaut said:

Hell The second dream quest was the only moment in a video game I've ever cried lol

I didn't cry. It changed my life. The words "Dream, not of what you are, but what you want to be" resonated inside me, together with the music and all the weight of the scene, picking the weak tenno and carrying it to the ship as sentients attacked me (I didn't know you could attack them with the beam so my frame just tanked damage at 1hp without stopping). It made something inside me snap. A year after I went from a nobody who wasn't doing anything with life besides playing games where I save the world again, to a badass martial artist, dancer (salsa, bachata, chachacha, also planning to learn Tango and Flamenco), started a freelancer job (and I'm doing great), went from having Tenno bodybuild to Ash koga bodybuild (effectively becoming a chickmagnet) and now I'm saving to buy my own land and build a house (in about 2 years). And I still play Warframe.

[StabbyTentacles]

6 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

What are you even trying to say here?  Most every otherwise-constructive discussion that involves Operators always have at least a few argument-less "Operators suck because emo teens" posts, which offer nothing of substance and/or actively sabotage constructive discussion.

You don't.  Put up your hood and disable transmissions, you now play as a Warframe that also has a deployable android designed to channel void energy.  If this discussion was about mechanics, this would at least open up a potential argument, but this thread has primarily been about the plot aspects.  Quests would still treat them as an Operator, but places where this is the case are minuscule and solvable by covering ones ears and loudly singing if it bothers you to such an extent.

Were this about mechanics, I would make the argument that Operators don't detract from gameplay, and greatly complement a warframe's abilities when one isn't pretending they're at all intended to replace a frame.  Before one gets a better Amp the beam certainly is lackluster, but building a 1/1/1 Amp is hardly an endeavor by Warframe standards, and afterwards an Operator can handle (Not necessarily handle well, but as mentioned, they aren't designed to be used instead of a frame) everything up to Sortie-level Grineer, which is more a statement on Armor Scaling rather than Amp effectiveness.  Other than damage, their usability is limited by one's creativity and imagination, with invincible hacking and reviving or easy and fast movement being quick examples that don't require any Focus investment to be good, but get better with it.

lol not even worth it

Not really.  99% of gameplay is still as a Warframe.  If one tries to make the argument that because that one percent is not enjoyable it should be removed, one could easily counter it by saying they enjoy that percent, and that another portion of the game (e.g. Spy, Interception, Hijack) is not enjoyable and should be removed, showing that such arguments hold no weight.

From a story standpoint, the few times a frame has been directly involved was because it was infested (Mesa, Chroma) or because it did something cool offscreen (Mirage, Limbo, Inaros, Gara, etc.), they themselves never were really front-and-center in quests so much as what they do, which hasn't changed after the Operator was introduced aside from the War Within, and even then part of it was about what Warframes can't accomplish on their own, they couldn't channel the raw Void energy necessary to counter the Queens' Kuva magic.  Aside from all that, there has been plenty of foreshadowing to suggest there is something resembling a consciousness inside Warframes, and quite a bit of speculation that The Sacrifice will delve more deeply into the story of Warframes themselves.

Rude and uncalled for.

TL;DR