Quest frame's prime variants are weird to me? (Mirage prime, Gara prime, etc.)

[(PSN)CrimsonAxure]

Alright this has been on my mind, ever since people started talking about the next prime release, and how some Tenno mentioned "Mirage prime". And of course, me being me and me having my sanity inside me at the time, i didn't think anything of it.. Until a few days after, until i realized: How would these prime variants work?

WHY DID I THINK THIS?

Mainly because i thought... uh... financially? What? I was thinking of the more "hidden" side to this Mirage prime thing that not many people, at the least, realize. Because there's something called Mirage prime, and you can easily access it by farming the relics... What would be the point in playing the quest? I get the "Let's just ignore & skip the lore" feel when i think of this. Same with The Silver Grove, let's just skip the stupid flower-picking section, cut to the chase, and get the better variant easier. That would basically "remove" a few quests from certain players that just want the prime. I hate picking flowers in Warframe, it feels stupid, i want to spend time smashing enemies, GRIEFING enemy territory, recording a Minecraft let's play in PoE, like, i don't want to be picking flowers. Then, "Hmm... why go through all the hassle? Just farm the relics, and done."

Another reason, is i guess Lore-based. I see these quest frames as "Artificial" frames. While our more familiar frames, like well... Excalibur, Ash, Loki, Mag, etc. Are all "organic". The quest frames are more rogue, they just aren't as familiar. Quest frames, to me, were all hidden away. They weren't created by Tenno or something, they were created by non-Tenno... I think? Like Inaros, he isn't really a Warframe, but a god-like being. Harrow, too. And if these quest frames were hidden and not public for the Orokin to copy and enhance, these hidden quest frames can't get primed by the Orokin, because the Orokin are long gone, they never knew about these quest frames, because they were hidden away all this time. And they were discovered by the player, long after the Orokin's disappearance. And the Tenno weren't the ones priming the frames, it was the Orokin. 

So no primed quest frames? Well, not exactly.

"ALL FRAMES WILL EVENTUALLY GET A PRIME" (BANDAGE)

Hmm.. not too sure on how to start this section, but BANDAGE. So, i had or have an idea for priming/enhancing these quest frames. Like i said, the Orokin are long gone, we can't just hit them up and ask them to prime our newly discovered Gara. But i thought, maybe we can prime them by ourselves, by raiding an Orokin tower, stealing? Orokin tools, crafting our own prime frames? And it won't simply be "ALRITE WE GOTE DIS OROKIN HAMER LET MEK INEROS PRIM 5000 BASS HELTH EHAHEHAEHEH" No. Basically, taking whatever magic they used to make prime frames, and using it for ourselves. If i put it at it's simplest,

"What's up guys TechRax here, I got Gara, it's finally here guys, this is it, the best frame in the game, ever. I just did the quest and picked her, up, uh... this is amazing. It's absolutely gorgeous. (5 more minutes of pointless rambling) We're going to be throwing this Gara, into this magical Orokin stuff, here, we go, 3, 2, 1, *chucks Gara into Orokin magic stuff* *big explosion* Look at that, the colors all changed, wow"                         "_{it's gara prime u idiot"}

I'm not sure about how this would work, it could be a drop from a new Void Raid, a sortie reward, it could possibly come from relics, i don't know. These "Orokin enhancers", you would only be able to apply them on to quest frames, so that you can't just get an easy Ember prime or something. That way, it won't really mess with lore.

HOW WOULD YOU ACTUALLY CRAFT THE PRIME?

It might seem a small bit grindy, depending on the drop mechanics, but the crafting part isn't hard at all, it's just getting the crafted quest frame, getting the "Orokin enhancer", and of course getting the prime blueprint itself. The blueprint should be obtained by crafting it in the foundry, but combining the regular blueprint, and the Orokin enhancer.

CONCLUSION

Conclusively, i thought normally giving these quest frames would be kinda weird, because that would kinda mess with lore a bit. And also, because like i said in the beginning, some players might miss out on some content, because again, why go through all the hassle for the normal variant? These quest frames were discovered by you, long after the Orokin's disappearance. It's a bit hard to think about how you get acquire Orokin enhancers. Drop from Lua spy? New Void raid? Who knows. 

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by (PS4)PS_90210

[xXDeadsinxX]

It really does not affect the lore one bit. I’m not that great with knowing a lot of the Warframe lore since it’s all over the place, but Prime frames were made first, then the original frames afterwards. Every Warframe will be primed in the game.

[Sanxxieh]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)PS_90210 said:

(...)

How about Valkyr? Valkyr has been a failed attempt of Zanuka experiment made by Alad V. The scars on the Valkyr's body, her cuffs, collar and rage are the mementos, relics of her pain.
Now Valkyr Prime... has been made before the Alad V Zanuka experiment...
So... yea... a paradox....

Edited November 15, 2017 by Sanxxieh

[Dromeos-Prime]

This is why one should never consider their head-canon as factual justification against the ACTUAL  canon. Primes are always the first versions of frames, frames are mass produced there is not a single inaros but there is only one inaros that decided to defend mars, the one and only mirage did not die against sentients but one of many mirages, so on and so forth.

[(PSN)CrimsonAxure]

5 minutes ago, Sanxxieh said:

How about Valkyr? Valkyr has been a failed attempt of Zanuka experiment made by Alad V. The scars on the Valkyr's body, her cuffs, collar and rage are the mementos, relics of her pain.
Now Valkyr Prime... has been made before the Alad V Zanuka experiment...
So... yea... a paradox....

If the Orokin know how to time travel, i want this post deleted right now

[Teh_Bowart]

Alad didn't create Valkyr, Alad captured and experimented on an already existing one afaik. (I've always been too lazy to actually make a research on this no doubt touchy for everyone topic so I might be wrong)

Edited November 15, 2017 by Teh_Bowart

[Aeon94]

Well , those quests can be pre-requisite for primes tho. Their relics drop after completing quest or something. Its easy to fix.

Also all primes are Orokin versions of mass produced regular frames. So there were Mirage Prime , Limbo Prime etc.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Aeon94

[(PSN)Homitdog2]

i think it either will be locked or you will have to use the frame to build the prime like building the ak versions of weapons you get all the parts then use like regular mirage then use her in the recipe

 

[(XBOX)DontAskMeIDK]

8 minutes ago, Sanxxieh said:

How about Valkyr? Valkyr has been a failed attempt of Zanuka experiment made by Alad V. The scars on the Valkyr's body, her cuffs, collar and rage are the mementos, relics of her pain.
Now Valkyr Prime... has been made before the Alad V Zanuka experiment...
So... yea... a paradox....

valkyr was a failed experiment by alad v but she was valkyr even before that she was just a normal frame. The new looks are different from here lore because of the experiments.

[ShizzlyWizzly]

that quest, the gara one is one that unlocks the new operator mode and quills, so it is required.  you wanted new content stop being  a *@##$ and do the new content, which includes quests and scanning @(*()$ flowers.

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

Don't overthink this.  Lore should never stand in the way of good game content.  Anything can be retconned.

[(XBOX)DontAskMeIDK]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)ThermalStone said:

Don't overthink this.  Lore should never stand in the way of good game content.  Anything can be retconned.

Im with you there But not following the lore makes them seem lazy 

[aligatorno]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Cephalon Envy said:

Im with you there But not following the lore makes them seem lazy 

With a procedurally generated game like Warframe, where ideas can change over the years, being tied to something you did years ago is anything but lazy. 

[Sanxxieh]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)PS_90210 said:

If the Orokin know how to time travel, i want this post deleted right now

Explaing lore holes by time travels is just a cheap move. We know they were able to time travel, but we also know Valkyr Prime makes no sense because it could not exist.

 

15 minutes ago, Teh_Bowart said:

Alad didn't create Valkyr, Alad captured and experimented on an already existing one afaik. (I've always been too lazy to actually make a research on this no doubt touchy for everyone topic so I might be wrong)

This is Valkyr, the tormented, the experiment.

Valkyr was crafted from torment, Tenno. Take control of her rage. -Lotus

Valkyr's Lore:

Spoiler

 

Previously having thrived among the Tenno in her natural Gersemi form, Valkyr is known for her capture and subsequent torment at the hands of Alad V. The obsessed Corpus scientist would bring Valkyr to his lab on Themisto, Jupiter where she would be restrained and subjected to harsh experiments. This mad science would greatly expand the Corpus' knowledge of Warframe design, and consequentially left Valkyr maddened and scarred.

Ultimately, Valkyr was deconstructed and used to produce the Zanuka prototype, Alad V's companion fighting machine. However, blueprints of her components can still be found after defeating Alad V in combat.

Valkyr's abilities reflect her madness, accompanied by cries of anguish.

 

So yes, the Valkyr we know, she is an effect of an experiment.

As for Chroma/Inaros/Limbo or Mirage - they make no sense as well... but as (PS4)PS_90210 said, we can all put into tme travels and we have to worry about lore no more.

Simply said, basing on (PS4)PS_90210 words - WF Lore does not exist.

...

 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

32 minutes ago, Sanxxieh said:

How about Valkyr? Valkyr has been a failed attempt of Zanuka experiment made by Alad V. The scars on the Valkyr's body, her cuffs, collar and rage are the mementos, relics of her pain.
Now Valkyr Prime... has been made before the Alad V Zanuka experiment...
So... yea... a paradox....

Actually, valkyr wasnt created by corpus. She was captured and experimented on....

 

Previously having thrived among the Tenno in her natural Gersemi form, Valkyr is known for her capture and subsequent torment at the hands of Alad V. The obsessed Corpus scientist would bring Valkyr to his lab on Themisto, Jupiter where she would be restrained and subjected to harsh experiments. This mad science would greatly expand the Corpus' knowledge of Warframe design, and consequentially left Valkyr maddened and scarred.

Ultimately, Valkyr was deconstructed and used to produce the Zanuka prototype, Alad V's companion fighting machine. However, blueprints of her components can still be found after defeating Alad V in combat.

Valkyr's abilities reflect her madness, accompanied by cries of anguish. 

 

- "Valkyr" on Fandom: "Ash Atlas"
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Valkyr

Edited November 15, 2017 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[NeoSmile]

the funny thing about prime warframes is that they are not improved by the orokin, they are the original
and the regular non-prime warframe are just like this because the orokin were so hi tech that we are unable of perfectly replicating them

this also explains void relics because they hold the lost parts to make the ''original'' version

the same goes with prime weapons

and the reason why new frames are capable of getting added is because we do not know of the existance of all the warframes
because of this we sometimes find relics we never before had found
we even found a few relics of weapons we never even knew existed before we found the prime (couch... couch... euphona, reaper, dakra, kavasa collar)

PS. this is based around the orokin lore not the lore of specific warframe

i hope this explains a little bit of lore which is often overlooked

[Sanxxieh]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Previously having thrived among the Tenno in her natural Gersemi form

And you want to tell me the Valkyr Prime is her Gersemi form?... right....
Her Prime makes absolutely no sense.

Also good point here:

8 minutes ago, NeoSmile said:

the funny thing about prime warframes is that they are not improved by the orokin, they are the original

Which proves my point even more.

Valkyr Prime =/= Gersemi Valkyr. Means it is not lore friendly.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

5 minutes ago, Sanxxieh said:

And you want to tell me the Valkyr Prime is her Gersemi form?... right....
Her Prime makes absolutely no sense.

Also good point here:

Which proves my point even more.

Valkyr Prime =/= Gersemi Valkyr. Means it is not lore friendly.

I didn't say it made since... Im just proving the corpus didn't create Valkyr.

[ElGuirrix]

As mentioned above, prime frames came first, as they were the originals, so any frame can be primed since the ones we currently have are merely tenno attempts at recreating them.

But considering some quest frames imply that they were there at ancient times, where it would be logical that the tenno was using a primed instead (like Gara's quest), and, just a thought, what if the blueprints we get from quests are just our interpretations of the real deal, that those blueprints were made by tenno based on the originals that we can't replicate with our own tech?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

3 minutes ago, ElGuirrix said:

As mentioned above, prime frames came first, as they were the originals, so any frame can be primed since the ones we currently have are merely tenno attempts at recreating them.

But considering some quest frames imply that they were there at ancient times, where it would be logical that the tenno was using a primed instead (like Gara's quest), and, just a thought, what if the blueprints we get from quests are just our interpretations of the real deal, that those blueprints were made by tenno based on the originals that we can't replicate with our own tech?

Thats my understanding

[Miser_able]

25 minutes ago, Sanxxieh said:

And you want to tell me the Valkyr Prime is her Gersemi form?... right....
Her Prime makes absolutely no sense.

Also good point here:

Which proves my point even more.

Valkyr Prime =/= Gersemi Valkyr. Means it is not lore friendly.

Valk prime was the first model, gersemi was the version 2 model, alad got a hold of a gersemi and tweaked into the "normal" valkyr making it the version 3.

 

About quest frames being primed, I think the Relics shouldn't be farmable but instead bought from an npc, and the npc would only sell you the Relics after you finish the corresponding quest. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Miser_able

[Aeon94]

2 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

Valk prime was the first model, gersemi was the version 2 model, alad got a hold of a gersemi and tweaked into the "normal" valkyr making it the version 3.

 

About quest frames being primed, I think the Relics shouldn't be farmable but instead bought from an npc, and the npc would only sell you the Relics after you finish the corresponding quest. 

Yea Alad V reverse engineered Gersemi to Prime version without gold and prime stuff and that became our tortured Valkyr.

1 hour ago, Aeon94 said:

Well , those quests can be pre-requisite for primes tho. Their relics drop after completing quest or something. Its easy to fix.

Had something similar in my mind but yours seems better. But what will be the currency for that Vendor ?

I'm thinking of

- Ducats for Limbo , Mirage , Chroma , Atlas

- Standings for Harrow , Titania , Nidus , Octavia , Gara

[phoenix1992]

...

"The Tenno have tried to imitate the success of Orokin technology in the form of the non-Prime items, resulting in slightly weaker variations. The Tenno were once capable of creating Primes of their own, examples being the Boar, Dakra, and the Kamas, however, such knowledge is now lost. With the rediscovery of the Void, many Prime items are being reclaimed by the Tenno and/or reverse-engineered by the Corpus and the Grineer, the strength of their craftsmanship being realized once more."

Meaning : Mesa, Titania, Chroma, Limbo and so on were never the "Prime" variants of the frames, they were using generic models of the said frames. This is also excluding the fact that we don't know if the said quests happened before or after the Orokin downfall. 
 
Now I am not saying that the WF lore is not paper thin at times (a lot of them), but the Prime variants were always absolute in the definition of "refined empowered versions that came during the Orokin era"

[Sanxxieh]

2 hours ago, Miser_able said:

Valk prime was the first model, gersemi was the version 2 model, alad got a hold of a gersemi and tweaked into the "normal" valkyr making it the version 3.

Valkyr was crafted from torment, Tenno. Take control of her rage. - Lotus

If both statements (yours and Lotus') are true, her Prime and Gersemi forms should have different powers (excluding the ripline), because the powers of Valkyr has are effect of torment, pain and rage. (Hysteria especially)

[Miser_able]

44 minutes ago, Sanxxieh said:

Valkyr was crafted from torment, Tenno. Take control of her rage. - Lotus

If both statements (yours and Lotus') are true, her Prime and Gersemi forms should have different powers (excluding the ripline), because the powers of Valkyr has are effect of torment, pain and rage. (Hysteria especially)

Regular valkyrs powers are fueled by rage. Prime and gersemi are fueled by righteous fury.