Eidolon One-Shot Problem

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

When building a squad to hunt an Eidolon,a Chroma is nearly mandatory. Due to a properly built Chroma being able to nearly one-shot an Eidolon's Synovia, teams demand him for fast hunts. This is rather unfair and fairly game-breaking as it limits the diversity of "accepted" warframes to battle Eidolons. There needs to be a change in the mechanics of Eidolons so that teamwork and surviving are more important than raw damage.

My proposition: Limit damage per-shot on Eidolons. Much like the Corpus Nullifier's bubble, putting minimum and maximum damage brackets could in fact balance out the pacing of an Eidolon encounter. For example: the Eidolon has 100,000 health. Making all shot do 50 minimum damage means it will take 2000 shots to kill it. Making a shot do at most 1000 damage means it'll take 100 shots to kill it. With this model, players will seek better weaponry and self buffs, but will not need to go to the extreme in order to kill an Eidolon quickly. This way teamwork and coordination will be more effective than a single Ace doing damage.

Thoughts?

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

I agree, I don't believe this was intended. But maybe at this point leave the Teralyst alone and make sure future eidolons encourage more diverse squads. If the Teralyst is changed, I think standing and progression in Quills should be looked at as well.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

4 hours ago, (Xbox One)alchemPyro said:

When building a squad to hunt an Eidolon,a Chroma is nearly mandatory. Due to a properly built Chroma being able to nearly one-shot an Eidolon's Synovia, teams demand him for fast hunts. This is rather unfair and fairly game-breaking as it limits the diversity of "accepted" warframes to battle Eidolons. There needs to be a change in the mechanics of Eidolons so that teamwork and surviving are more important than raw damage.

My proposition: Limit damage per-shot on Eidolons. Much like the Corpus Nullifier's bubble, putting minimum and maximum damage brackets could in fact balance out the pacing of an Eidolon encounter. For example: the Eidolon has 100,000 health. Making all shot do 50 minimum damage means it will take 2000 shots to kill it. Making a shot do at most 1000 damage means it'll take 100 shots to kill it. With this model, players will seek better weaponry and self buffs, but will not need to go to the extreme in order to kill an Eidolon quickly. This way teamwork and coordination will be more effective than a single Ace doing damage.

Thoughts?

It seems you are complaining since you don't have chroma i guess?

How does it disturb you if you are in a squad and a chroma one shot the eilodon?

If a weapon has +200% critical chance, with 8k+ radiation, why would you want to limit its damage?

That would break the mechanism, this is without adding the buff from (chroma, rhino, harrow and so on), and also without adding a 50% critical when you x6 zoon your rubico

 

[(PSN)DBR87]

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)alchemPyro said:

When building a squad to hunt an Eidolon,a Chroma is nearly mandatory. Due to a properly built Chroma being able to nearly one-shot an Eidolon's Synovia, teams demand him for fast hunts. This is rather unfair and fairly game-breaking as it limits the diversity of "accepted" warframes to battle Eidolons. There needs to be a change in the mechanics of Eidolons so that teamwork and surviving are more important than raw damage.

My proposition: Limit damage per-shot on Eidolons. Much like the Corpus Nullifier's bubble, putting minimum and maximum damage brackets could in fact balance out the pacing of an Eidolon encounter. For example: the Eidolon has 100,000 health. Making all shot do 50 minimum damage means it will take 2000 shots to kill it. Making a shot do at most 1000 damage means it'll take 100 shots to kill it. With this model, players will seek better weaponry and self buffs, but will not need to go to the extreme in order to kill an Eidolon quickly. This way teamwork and coordination will be more effective than a single Ace doing damage.

Thoughts?

I would be okay with this if ranking in the Quills didn't require ~60 Eidolon Shards. You know why the player base optimized the hunt? Because the grind is insane. It takes around 240 Eidolon shards to get every Arcane and max them. And resource booster do not work on Eidolon shards. You need 240 Eidolon kills to max every arcane and 60 Eidolon kills to get to rank 5 in Quills.

Listen, you can use whatever frame you want, honestly. Chroma just kills Eidolon the fastest. But really, any Warframe that can buff their shooting damage and use a Sniper can fill the same role as Chroma does. Literally no one is stopping you from forming a team with your friends that excludes Chroma and replaces him with Mirage.

The way DE talked about the Megalyst, I am sure there is going to be some annoying health gating mechanic, but for the love of sanity the rewards better be worth the extra trouble. I'm talking a Megalsyt better drop 10 Eidolon shards and 3 Brilliant Eidolon Shards or else what's the point of Farming Megalyst if I can get more per minute farming Teralyst?

So no, unless the insane resource requirement is fixed, I am completely against any form of health gating especially since certain people feel Chroma is required (he's not) and you can easily find 3 other like minded people to hunt a Teralyst. And even if you don't want to run Chroma, there are plenty of other spots available in the group. Play Oberon, play Trinity, play Rhino, or Volt or Harrow. You don't have to be Chroma and even Chroma is replaceable with Mirage or a really strong Titania. You really don't have to be a slave to the meta if you don't want to be.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

10 hours ago, (Xbox One)Oussii said:

It seems you are complaining since you don't have chroma i guess?

How does it disturb you if you are in a squad and a chroma one shot the eilodon?

If a weapon has +200% critical chance, with 8k+ radiation, why would you want to limit its damage?

That would break the mechanism, this is without adding the buff from (chroma, rhino, harrow and so on), and also without adding a 50% critical when you x6 zoon your rubico

 

Actually I do have a Chroma. I just get annoyed at how everyone in recruitment chat scrambles to find one every nightfall. A colossus like the Teralyst shouldn't be something that can be speed-ran.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

13 hours ago, (Xbox One)alchemPyro said:

Actually I do have a Chroma. I just get annoyed at how everyone in recruitment chat scrambles to find one every nightfall. A colossus like the Teralyst shouldn't be something that can be speed-ran.

WHY NOT?

When you need 20 or more of the shard to build a single item or as a sacrifice, and knowing that it drops one or 2 everytime. so a spped run kill is the answer to that

Edited November 28, 2017 by (XB1)Oussii

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

44 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Oussii said:

WHY NOT?

When you need 20 or more of the shard to build a single item or as a sacrifice, and knowing that it drops one or 2 everytime. so a spped run kill is the answer to that

I mean speed-run as in kill within 6 minutes. I do believe that an Eidolon should go down relatively quickly provided the proper firepower, but when the poor thing can't even show off all its moves, then it becomes a problem. Really the average run from first shot to loot drop should take around 12 minutes. That's enough time with a proper team to down shields within 30 seconds 4 times. spend 45 seconds to 1 minute on each synovia, perform the recharge phase, then work down the last of its health.

[(XBOX)Ezoob]

So, you want DE to nerf the primary play style of the community because you dont like it. Honestly you sound like a whiney developer unhappy his creation doesnt offer more challenge to the player base.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

The amount of disgusting replies from basically trolls in this thread. One bragging about stats and one just being unpleasant.

The point of your thread mate is valid, the Teralyst doesn't even have the chance to fight back if you bring proper firepower and I do think that's a problem. Giving him more health is not an option, as some players struggle to get 1 in a complete nightcycle, weapon nerfs isn't an option either, as we've worked hard to build those weapons. I don't see damage capping a a completely viable option either, certainly not to the extend you suggested, you would bypass that with high magazine, fast firering weapons. I don't have a better idea on hand or even an idea I think could be offered as a solution for that matter, but DE's response to add a harder Teralyst, I don't think they're going about it the right way. That being said, the amount of resources needed and the drop rates, we need speed runs, just not as easy as they are now.

[(XBOX)Ezoob]

A teralyst with different mechanics is really the only viable option though. As you said, any other changes would be useless or damaging to the players.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

On 11/27/2017 at 3:01 AM, (Xbox One)alchemPyro said:

When building a squad to hunt an Eidolon,a Chroma is nearly mandatory. Due to a properly built Chroma being able to nearly one-shot an Eidolon's Synovia, teams demand him for fast hunts. This is rather unfair and fairly game-breaking as it limits the diversity of "accepted" warframes to battle Eidolons. There needs to be a change in the mechanics of Eidolons so that teamwork and surviving are more important than raw damage.

My proposition: Limit damage per-shot on Eidolons. Much like the Corpus Nullifier's bubble, putting minimum and maximum damage brackets could in fact balance out the pacing of an Eidolon encounter. For example: the Eidolon has 100,000 health. Making all shot do 50 minimum damage means it will take 2000 shots to kill it. Making a shot do at most 1000 damage means it'll take 100 shots to kill it. With this model, players will seek better weaponry and self buffs, but will not need to go to the extreme in order to kill an Eidolon quickly. This way teamwork and coordination will be more effective than a single Ace doing damage.

Thoughts?

my problem is not one shot killing the teralyst (which i usually do)

Now, i wait a bit so trinity would charge the lores as most of the time i shoot, then he teleports

So i learned that being fast enough to shoot it has a negative side, he might teleport

Or if you kill it fast at the end not having enough lores, you may risk not getting the brilliant shard

[(PSN)Unstar]

I agree with OP's presented problem.  The difference between a squad with a Chroma and without a Chroma is far too drastic.

I also empathize with players that want Quills standing to be built up at a decent rate...but leaving things as they are is not the solution.  Chroma is a toxic bandaid.

I can't say I know what the solution is to OP's problem, though my best guess is that Chroma's ability to output damage likely needs to be reeled in so it's at least in the same stratosphere as other frames.

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 10:05 PM, (Xbox One)alchemPyro said:

I mean speed-run as in kill within 6 minutes. I do believe that an Eidolon should go down relatively quickly provided the proper firepower, but when the poor thing can't even show off all its moves, then it becomes a problem. Really the average run from first shot to loot drop should take around 12 minutes. That's enough time with a proper team to down shields within 30 seconds 4 times. spend 45 seconds to 1 minute on each synovia, perform the recharge phase, then work down the last of its health.

turn what already takes days to farm into years. thanks

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)Evilpricetag said:

turn what already takes days to farm into years. thanks

Hey, here's a crazy idea...change the Teralyst to be more in-line with what DE probably intended this fight to be...but also change the Quills requirements. A change in one place doesn't preclude making changes elsewhere to balance things out.

DE certainly thought the original Quills grind (without taking Chroma into account) was fine, because they wanted something we wouldn't be able to finish quickly, but at this point I think they should compromise to try to salvage something from the Teralyst.

I think it's a shame, I like the idea of the Teralyst, and having the option to kill or capture using lures...but I maxed Quills without too much trouble in a couple weeks by joining squads from recruiting (getting 2-5 captures a night, the limiting factor being the Cetus gates). I have zero desire to fight it again (especially given how buggy the Cetus gates are), it's just not interesting or fun currently.

I probably should just stay out of this, because any change will upset someone...and I've already reaped the rewards from the cheesy dragon. Maxing Quills didn't really change anything though, I still prefer the very first amp I created using the shwaak prism...I understand people want to max Quills as quickly as possible, but there is little benefit to it, none of it made the Teralyst fight easier, it's already a 5 minute "sequence".

[(XBOX)dude1286]

The biggest issue is that to get everything from Onkko, the player needs to kill 300 Teralysts, which only spawn in for 50 minutes every 2.5 hours. People who can only play for a limited time look for the most efficient method possible to do this grind quicker. 

With them working on new Eidolons, they should be harder to defeat, but also should reward the player accordingly. The Teralyst was the first Eidolon, so maybe they are fine with it being trivialized like this so they can design better Eidolons for the future.

Also, my personal 3 man group is Trinity, Harrow and Rhino. We all have well built Lanka's that do 10k damage on crit before any buff, and we don't take much longer to defeat the Teralyst than a 4 man group with a Chroma.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

On December 11, 2017 at 7:44 PM, (PS4)Unstar said:

I agree with OP's presented problem.  The difference between a squad with a Chroma and without a Chroma is far too drastic.

I also empathize with players that want Quills standing to be built up at a decent rate...but leaving things as they are is not the solution.  Chroma is a toxic bandaid.

I can't say I know what the solution is to OP's problem, though my best guess is that Chroma's ability to output damage likely needs to be reeled in so it's at least in the same stratosphere as other frames.

Then it's because that squad doesn't know how to play without a Chroma. You can kill a teralyst as fast with a Chroma as you can without, it's a matter of time management.