Ignore Or "blacklist" > Kick

[Carcharias]

Time after time people whom I presume don't have a whole lot of experience with MMOs start a thread asking for the power to kick players. Almost inevitably someone throws out the less troll-able option of a black list as an alternative to kicking players.

 

For those who don't understand the way this should work is that when you ignore someone matchmaker does not group you with that player ever ever again. Problem solved. Yes you have to meet the troll for this to work, but you only have to meet them once. And nobody gets kicked.

And no trolls have the power to kick. (< which is good)

 

After seeing and posting in yet another "can we have kick power" threads I decided to try starting this thread as a simple counter balance. I have seen kick and vote kick before in other games. It is rarely pretty as the players you do not want to play with have the same power you do and can get together and kick you for anything. Playing a frame I / we don't like? Gone. Accidentally break a window, not in my / our game! Gone.

 

So I don't know, I guess if you think that an ignore potion with blacklist incorporated is a better idea than kicking show this thread some love. They say that the squeaky hinge gets the oil, I just wanted to squeak for something besides kicking.

 

Cheers!

Edited July 31, 2013 by Carcharias

[RoboDoge]

Agree

 

Blacklisting is good option, but i would like to add that we could also have option to see how many times someone was blacklisted.

[Carcharias]

Agree

 

Blacklisting is good option, but i would like to add that we could also have option to see how many times someone was blacklisted.

That might be nice. What I just don't get is that if there is a kick system you may have to kick the same player again and again. Or you may get kicked repeatably. With a black list it is a one time action per player you disagree with. To me this is really straight forward. I really don't understand why people keep asking for a kick. Then again I've been gaming for over 25 years, maybe I'm getting old.

 

Hey you damn kids, get off my lawn !!!  >.<

Edited August 2, 2013 by Carcharias

[Zhoyzu]

SUPPORT although this is what the ignore list should do

[Gorillabear]

AGREED!

[Tsukinoki]

Completely agreed.

Solves the problem, and has a few benefits:
-You can share your blacklists with other people
-Eventually the trolls are forced out of the game because they cant play with anyone.

[Zancross]

Blacklist!? hmm good idea. Could work on the name but, that can come later.

[VER1]

A simple blacklisting feature would be nice.

 

Personally I would like the black list to bring up a pop which says this session has a player you blacklisted, are you sure you wish to join the session?

 

Or another option to simply make all sessions with a blacklisted player in it invisible.

[Danakar]

I'd be in favor of a blacklist, as  a kick would actually be counter-productive and mainly benefit the trolls/griefers. Imagine the number of trolls who would simply kick another player right before they get to extraction. Ha ha ha, we so funny... not.

 

So yeah, a blacklist which would prevent grouping up with individuals you do not wish to group up with prior to a mission would be great. The ability to kick people whilst in a mission would just be helping the trolls in giving them an extremely powerful tool to troll with.

[Aizeol]

So long as players that have been blacklisted get a reason (could be cookie-cutter like "leeching/afking") and thus have a chance to not repeat behavior that has already gotten them blacklisted.

As much as I want to see the ability to curve bad behavior, I don't want to force anyone into a situation where they basically can't play the game. There are players with abysmal behavior, but they are still part of the community and should be given a chance to correct their actions.

[Carcharias]

I see your point, but according to steam this game boasts millions of players. If that's true you would have to pess off a whole bunch of people before you came anywhere close to the point where you couldn't play the game.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Carcharias

[Tsukinoki]

@Carcharias

The only question this brings up then is this:

Should you be allowed to share your blacklist with others?

It has both pros and cons, and IMO they are a bit washed and roughly equal to each other.

On one hand it allows you to share your list and stop other people from ever having to play with a troll.

On the other hand it can be used to exclude someone from games of people he's never met because you just don't like him.

[Carcharias]

Hmm, I would think that sharing your blacklist would not be necessary. After all everyone is a unique individual, what one player does that I simply can't stand you may be able to put up with. Something like this will allow you to not play with people who "bring down your game" in whatever form. Too slow, too fast, spamming #4, never using abilities, whatever floats your boat, you can choose not to play with a player for any reason. Because of that, I think that everyone's blacklist should be their own.

[Llyssa]

A few problems with this:

 

Firstly, shared blacklists means that someone could troll you by blacklisting you, and then telling/convincing everyone else to blacklist you. This can cause long-term issues for you.

 

Secondly, a properly done "kick" feature would require a majority vote(all 3 players) to remove you. If you found 3 troll players together, you probably don't want to be there to begin with. If the troll convinces 2 others to kick you, it's a 1-time loss.

 

Thirdly, I mostly want to kick people when they do stupid things like go AFK with mission-critical objectives or in the starting room of a defense mission. Merely leaving means that if I retry the mission, I'm most-likely to get thrown back in the same exact game, with the same exact AFKer. It has happened a few times now. Blacklisting them not only forces me to leave the game, and then black list them, and then retry;  it also means that unless I tell everyone else, other players joining that mission will have a fifty-fifty shot of joining either me or the AFKer, and that means I can end up alone at an underpopulated node, through no fault of my own, because of the AFKer+blacklisting.

 

Fourthly, it is exceedingly rare that I can imagine anyone at all being so horrible that I'd want to NEVER PLAY WITH THEM AGAIN! It's mostly a one-off issue, and kicking them once is fine.They aren't a horrible person who MUST BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS, they just were not being helpful in that last match.

 

Fifthly, "repeatedly kicking" is another symptom of a badly done system. If you get kicked from a mission, you merely cannot re-join that session. You should not be able to re-join the exact session you just got kicked from. This makes the most sense.

 

This game's design leaves no reason for a "NEVER AGAIN!" list, and no benefit to it over a properly-implemented kick system.

 

If you really *are* finding a need for a "NEVER AGAIN!" list, the problem is probably you.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Agree

 

Blacklisting is good option, but i would like to add that we could also have option to see how many times someone was blacklisted.

No, that just leads to public shaming and calling out. This community has enough problems with elitist attitudes and juvenile personal attacks all over the place. We don't need to bring "DON'T LISTEN TO SO AND SO THEY GOT BLACK LISTED X TIMES" into it.

[Carcharias]

 

Firstly, shared blacklists means that someone could troll you by blacklisting you, and then telling/convincing everyone else to blacklist you. This can cause long-term issues for you.

 

Secondly, a properly done "kick" feature would require a majority vote(all 3 players) to remove you. If you found 3 troll players together, you probably don't want to be there to begin with. If the troll convinces 2 others to kick you, it's a 1-time loss.

 

Thirdly, I mostly want to kick people when they do stupid things like go AFK with mission-critical objectives or in the starting room of a defense mission. Merely leaving means that if I retry the mission, I'm most-likely to get thrown back in the same exact game, with the same exact AFKer. It has happened a few times now. Blacklisting them not only forces me to leave the game, and then black list them, and then retry;  it also means that unless I tell everyone else, other players joining that mission will have a fifty-fifty shot of joining either me or the AFKer, and that means I can end up alone at an underpopulated node, through no fault of my own, because of the AFKer+blacklisting.

 

Fourthly, it is exceedingly rare that I can imagine anyone at all being so horrible that I'd want to NEVER PLAY WITH THEM AGAIN! It's mostly a one-off issue, and kicking them once is fine.They aren't a horrible person who MUST BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS, they just were not being helpful in that last match.

 

Fifthly, "repeatedly kicking" is another symptom of a badly done system. If you get kicked from a mission, you merely cannot re-join that session. You should not be able to re-join the exact session you just got kicked from. This makes the most sense.

 

This game's design leaves no reason for a "NEVER AGAIN!" list, and no benefit to it over a properly-implemented kick system.

 

If you really *are* finding a need for a "NEVER AGAIN!" list, the problem is probably you.

1) As stated directly above your post I do not think that being able to share your blacklist is wise or necessary.

 

2) Define "proper" kick. There are different reasons you may not want to play with a player and there are always new ways that the small number of trolls can mess with you. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that a blacklist would be a whole lot simpler and more tailored for the individual.

 

3) Again with the claim that there are millions of people playing this game. If that is true then you shouldn't have too much of a problem finding a new group. Also this argument represents one of the flaws with kicking. Most of the kicking arguments I've seen suggest kicking the player to his / her own instance. In your example with a AFKer if you kick them you either roll solo and hope that someone else comes along and joins you or try to find a new group in which case because matchmaker doesn't know that the player you just kicked is AFK you stand a chance of ending up right back in game with them.

 

4) That is your opinion. In my experience people usually play the way they play. If they irritate me enough to go on my blacklist I see no point in needing to give them a second chance. That being said, if you can add people to your blacklist you can also usually take them off. Back in WOW I would scrub my ignore (blacklist) once a year (at X-mass :D ). Thus giving all those people a clean slate in my book. However I would point out the the number that ended up back on my list was usually greater than 50%.

 

5) This goes back to "proper" kicking with is an opinion and more complicated then simply being able to ignore a player that is raining on your game in whatever way.

 

6) As stated in #4 most blacklists that I have used in the past are only "never again" if the player controlling their blacklist never cleans out his / her list. And also whether or not an offending player gets a second chance or not depends on the crime and who you are. Personally if I were to meet someone deploying hateful or harassing speech then yes, IMO the correct answer is never again.

 

I have seen both systems. The blacklist is simpler to deploy, simpler to use, more fail-safe, less troll-able and if a player irritates you, you do not need the two other players to agree with you to rid yourself of the one you consider to be a nuisance. You can simply (in theory) right click their name and place on ignore list. Then matchmaker no longer puts you in group with that person or allows that person to join a group you are in. The people you do not want to play with are custom tailored to your preferences and not dependent of the views of any others.

 

Granted you could do the same thing with your contacts list, but that does take time and effort. Most people seem to want a quick easy way to deal with the small % of trolls. Also this may provide motivation for people to not be engaging in troll behavior if they know that people have the option to not play with them. If you are a troll and get kicked with no other penalty, then *shrug* big deal, go bother someone else. If enough people ignore the troll it is possible (but unlikely with millions of players) we may actually kick the offending player from the game entirely. Which in a hypothetical situation that extreme, enough people would agree that this player is "bad" that removing the individual from the game may actually be a plus. Of course he /she can always play solo.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Carcharias

[PsychedelicSnake]

@Carcharias

The only question this brings up then is this:

Should you be allowed to share your blacklist with others?

It has both pros and cons, and IMO they are a bit washed and roughly equal to each other.

On one hand it allows you to share your list and stop other people from ever having to play with a troll.

On the other hand it can be used to exclude someone from games of people he's never met because you just don't like him.

 

Agreed. I'm all for a blacklist, but I am also blatantly against being able to share blacklists. It is essentially naming and shaming, which is something DE is against. Besides, like you mentioned, say someone just doesn't like the frame you use. You'd be blacklisted, then he'd share the blacklist with his friends, their friends will share with their friends, and so on.

 

So yeah, I agree with you 100% in that regard. Blacklist should be a function for an individual player, not a group.

[Tsukinoki]

@PsychedelicSnake
I just thought I would bring it up as it something important to consider with blacklists and overall I agree that they should not be shared.  They could make it so that you can only blacklist people you have played with and not just add any name into it you want and would avoid that issue entirely.

I am against naming and shaming, but as always its important to consider these things and figure them out.

[ClockworkSpectre]

+1 for the idea of black lists, also...

@PsychedelicSnake
I just thought I would bring it up as it something important to consider with blacklists and overall I agree that they should not be shared.  They could make it so that you can only blacklist people you have played with and not just add any name into it you want and would avoid that issue entirely.

I am against naming and shaming, but as always its important to consider these things and figure them out.

This would probably be the most fair way to go about it. 

[Carcharias]

^ Yep, that sounds good to me. The blacklist system would still have to be implemented with thought out common sense, no arguments there.